Turbo Question

[iliketocrash]

Alright. I've decided i'm gonna go for the t3/t04e or the t3/t04e turbo. Problem is, and i feel dumb saying this... I don't know the difference between the two. For all the searching i've done i can't even find a compressor map for either of them! All i've found in my searchs are people comparing the turbos to the gt28r or turbo kits (mostly for honas). I know boost_boy runs a t3/t4 setup up, or did, i dunno the status on any of that any more. So i have a few questions. First off, what's the difference between the t3/t04e and t3/t04b turbo? If i'm running 15psi then when can i expect to reach full boost, and will it hold all the way to redline or at least close to it?

[CA19DET]

the T04E is the newer & more efficient compressor of the "T" Series turbos, and are found in these popular models

Stage 3 T3/T-04E hybrid turbo. 40-60 trim 76mm BCI-4 or BCI-8compressor wheel in T-04E housing. 76 trim 65 mm T31turbine in .49-.82 A/R housing.

Stage 5 T3/T-04E hybrid turbo. 40-60 trim 76mm BCI-4 or BCI-8compressor wheel in T-04E housing. 76 trim 72 mm T350turbine in .63 or .82 A/R housing.

the 50 Trim is the most common and reccomended, the 60 Trim is for those looking to chase down big HP and dont mind the extra lag, the 40 Trim, well thats just too small..

here is the compressor map for the 50 Trim T04E



the CA18 at 20psi flows ~36 LB/mn with a Pressure Ratio of ~2.4 so that puts the CA right in the middle of the compressor efficiency, right in the 76-78% efficiency zone. perfect and more boost available. (for calculating PR and AF check SCC - Suck, Squish, Bang, Boom articles or search google for the formulas)

now we look at the T04B - blah



using the same formula, AF = 36 and PR =2.4 for 20psi boost on our CA18, you can see that the T04B compressor isnt going to be as efficient, we are in the 70-72% efficiency island, eventhouhg this is stil a good turbo, we can conclude that the to4b will be working harder to make the same boost, thus generating more heat and stealing efficency from the engine.

here we can look at the 60 Trim T04E: wow



a bit better than the 50 Trim, ~78% efficency at 20psi... but that bigger compressor wheel will be harder to get spooling so more lag.

hope this helps, rememebr turboneticsinc.com will have all the compressor maps you need.. i'll dig around and find the equations to cal;culate PR and AF so you can plot different boost levels on the maps to check out turbos,

[iliketocrash]

what's the BCI-4 BCI-8 stuff?I know how to do the calculations already, i just needed the maps. I really appreciate the info, i'll be sure to put the turbonetics site in my favorites.So what would you recommend if i'm just looking to run 15psi on a daily basis? The stage 3 50trim with a .63a/r? How much do you think the .82a/r would hurt spool time?

[CA19DET]

i siggest the T3/T04E 50 Trim w/ Stage 3 .63 Turbine, thats what i have, the .86 A/R turbine will give you about 800-1000prm more lag, so full boost about 5000rpm, but it will hit HARD!!!

i'll be running 12psi for low/street and 24+ for race/track days with race fuel. i'll be upgrading to the bigger .86 A/R Turbine if i cant see ~400whp, but i am certian i should, my engine builder just got the distribution for Turbonetics locally and regionally, so i'll hopefully be testing all sorts of turbines and compressors out, maybe even some new hybrid and Dual BB GT equivilants.

the BCI-4/8 are the different compressor wheels available, check turbonitics for their reccomendations, i spent about an hour and a half talking to them, deciding on what turbo would have been best.

[boost_boy]

With a T3/T04B and depending on which stage you get, you should expect to see full boost at about 3300-4000rpm. With T3/T04E amnd once again, you have to factor in which stage and rear housing you get, anywhere from 3800-5700rpm and I think you know that if you're hitting full boost at 5700rpm, you got a big-dog turbo.

Dee

[iliketocrash]

Well this has been all exceedingly helpfull. Hopefully i'll have my tubular exhaust mani by the end of the month and then the turbo should follow shortly after. i'm thinking of goin for the t3/t04e 50 trim with the stage 3 .63 turbine. Hopefully with the right tuning i can see 15psi by 4k... anyone think this sounds unreasonable?

[boost_boy]

Quote ». i'm thinking of goin for the t3/t04e 50 trim with the stage 3 .63 turbine. Hopefully with the right tuning i can see 15psi by 4k... anyone think this sounds unreasonable?[/quote] With a .63 rear housing and the CA18DET, more like 4700ish rpm.

Dee

[iliketocrash]

well what should i go with to get it more in the low 4000's or even 4k even?

[boost_boy]

Go with a .48 rear housing on a T3/T04E. You'll thank me later. Go ahead and try it with the .63 housing and you and many others will experience what I experienced, lag till 5500rpm.

Dee

[iliketocrash]

isn't the .48 gonna kill my top end or something?

[boost_boy]

Quote »isn't the .48 gonna kill my top end or something?[/quote] Somebody that doesn't know any better must've told you that lie. On the top end, I have proven that this little motor doesn't need all the assistance like the bigger diplacement 4 cylinders. If I can pull on a turbocharged IS300 with a real 2JZ running big boost and I'm using T2/T3 hybrid shoved in the stock T2 housing, what makes you think you're going to choke that engine on the top end with a more efficient turbo. Talk is talk; I have proven this. But once again, you are entitled to disregard me and try .63 or bigger rear housings. My experiences are just that anyway, mine! BTW, I use a T3/T04E with .48 housing currently and it owns the .63 housing in boost response and all around driveability.

Dee

[CA19DET]

the .48 Turbine housing WILL not allow you to run as high boost as the .63 and WILL kill top end performance..

when he says top end i dont think he means top speed.

the .48 turbine cant move as much exhaust gas, and once you turn up the boost it just whips the air in the turbine housing into nothing and you can actually start loosing power.

with the .63 turbine you will be moving allot more exhaust air, with the same energy used, thus making it easier to spin up that compressor wheel.

it is a known FACT that bigger turbine housins allow you to run more boost and make more power, that is a FACT!!!

[boost_boy]

Quote »it is a known FACT that bigger turbine housins allow you to run more boost and make more power, that is a FACT!!![/quote] Understand what I'm saying in the fact that I never said that a .48 housing will help you build more power than a .63, but the mere fact that you will be able to get onto boost faster and enjoy a smooth transition into your power band. The .63 housing will bring you into boost much later, but with a bit more efficiency. These guys are asking for response at around 4000ish rpm, right? A .63 housing will not offer that on the CA18DET no matter what type of manifold you use. I'm merely giving them information about what does what at what RPM and the info that I provided is a known fact. No web site maps here; all real time. As I've stated before, I've used a T3/T04B stage 1 with .63 housing and it came onto boost at around 4500ish rpm if I can recall by looking at some of my old dyno sheets.

But seriously, the only people around here are chasing big power is you and I Aaron, so why promote something that's going to make these guys hate driving on the street. If they try and race on the street with a .63 housing, they will realize what lag is and get smoked on a regular basis. Wrong engine for quick spool-up with the .63 housing.... And this is a know FACT!!!

Dee

[CA19DET]

i wasnt saying anything to do with our engine, i stated that the .63 T31 turbine can make ALLOT more power than the .48 and I explained why.

you also got to remember that the T04B is a dog compared to the T04E especially when used with the the stage 1 turbine. the t04e compressor is much more efficient.

and the turbo at 16 psi with the .48 will be working much harder than the .63 at the same boost, and the .63 will be making more power...

the only turbo on a CA that i have heard that people fall out fo boost on is the T3 60-1, that is an awful turbo and doesnt make full boost till 5500rpm or something.

anyway i see that this will jsuta be a replay of our last debate... you obviously doen believe in compressor and tubine maps that garrett engineers slave on and put out for us tuners to match and pick turbos with, that science and engineering and "web site maps" are jsuta waste.

i dont think i'll comment till i post vidoe and dyno sheetw of my car with the .63 A/R turbine and what rps power comes on etc...

[boost_boy]

Quote »anyway i see that this will jsuta be a replay of our last debate... you obviously doen believe in compressor and tubine maps that garrett engineers slave on and put out for us tuners to match and pick turbos with, that science and engineering and "web site maps" are jsuta waste.[/quote] Don't put words in mouth; that's not what I said. I do however believe in real time tuning and not via someone else's mathematical recommendations. And BTW, I am the proud owner of a 60-1 with a .63 housing and it is my drag turbo; and it is true indeed that full boost is around 5500rpm. If I'm to see 500+whp, I got to step up to my turbo that I know will be efficient enough to support this. It's just that a T3/T04E with a .48 back housing will provide excellent boost response in the range that the average/dual personality street/strip racer can appreciate.

And besides that, I keep hearing you refer to just horse power; I never hear you say anything about driveability on the street. But then again if you've never done it, how would you know. Try rolling on the street with a .63 housing and the little hondas will clean you up. T3/T04E 57trim .63 rear housing= full boost @ 5000rpm Guaranteed. still kinda late ain't it?

Quote »i dont think i'll comment till i post vidoe and dyno sheetw of my car with the .63 A/R turbine and what rps power comes on etc...[/quote] I can't wait...Your choic, but I'm with you on this...Kill the talk and put up some action...

Dee

[CA19DET]

Quote »T3/T04E 57trim .63 rear housing= full boost @ 5000rpm Guaranteed. still kinda late ain't it?[/quote]again its the more efficeint T3/T04E 50 Trim i have, not the 57 trim, big difference on compresor efficiency and lag, but anywho we'll see by next weekend. and i said horsepower casue i saw you refer to "top end", thats all. if you read my posts above i talk about lag with these turbos and what rpm they should make full boost etc.. i thought you meant max power. so i was clarifying top end = power potential, and who said i was looking for response?? with my current set up i'm chasing power... maybe after that i may switch to a GT turbo and set up the car more for autocross/drift etc...

l8ter

[boost_boy]

Quote »but anywho we'll see by next weekend[/quote] I can't wait! Max power is for the big dogs; those guys who dedicate their engines to R&D and pushing the envelope. I've donated 3 engines to the boost gods in my quest for fully grasping the characteristics of the CA18DET which is something no turbo manufacturer could ever offer. There's no warranty on your engine if you blow it up from using their turbo, so I have to go with advice from my turbo builder and my own driving experiences with multiple CA engines with multiple turbo combinations. I never said you were looking for response as I concluded per our last discussion that you are a power hunter hence the reason why you use the SR20 and other power houses as a reference.

You see Aaron, this is how I make my money and the average business makes its money and that's by proving that your theory and/or the product you are pedalling can do exactly what you say it can do. Proof, Proof, Proof! There's not too many of us chasing big power. Most just want to be able boost out of a turn, or drift, or light street racing or whatever. Think about this, most guys on this forum is using a stock ecu and afm. You and I both know that a big turbo will max out those injectors, AFM and ultimately their engines quickly. I try and offer my experiences on the way these CA18 motors act with certain devices or at certain stress levels. An though it likes to be revved, there's no power to be had after 6500rpm unless you can fit a nice set of cams to accomodate high rpm power.

For the few that wants big power 400+ and want to be a dyno queen, I implore you to go get a GT3037 (If you got the money) or T3/T04E 60-1 stage 3 or even a stage (If you can stand the lag). Either one of these turbos will see the CA18DET well over 450whp with the proper fuel set-up.

For the street boys that want a more efficient turbo and less lag, the T3/T04B or the T3/T04E will give you good power. You can spool a T3/T04B on the street with a .63 rear housing because it's small wheels, but you'll catch some lag on the T3/T04E stage 3 which is the stage I recommend, but with .48 rear housing.

I have turbos with both housings, but they are for different purposes: Ones for street and one's for dyno and drag time....

Dee