OK i have searched and searched and gathered a lot of information and I am trying to make a decision on how to tune my ka-t...
Setup:Turbo - Precision SC60 DBB (T3A/R .63-.82) (T4 .68-.81)Manifold - JGSEbay IntercoolerEbay Catback with custom test pipe480cc injectors (open to suggestions here thinking stock rails-sidemount)Walbro Fuel PumpMBCGreddy RS BOVZ32 maf??
I am looking to reach the 300whp mark with reliability and DD capability on stock internals I don't have a lot of money to spend on tuning but just wanted some advice on what to run.
To reach my power mark I was thinking I would have to run about 10psi???
1) So I saw a lot of ppl are running the SAFCII (about $300) which is relatively easy to control the fuel management but does nothing for spark. I think I would have to retard the timing about 4 degrees under 10psi right? So I would have to get a MSD BTM which is another $300.
2) Or I could go with JWT tune which is $600 and I have heard mixed reviews about and doesn't give you very much flexibility.
3) Or I have heard a few people talk about the megasquirt II vers. 3 engine management system ($300). This intrigues me quite a bit but seems quite difficult to use.
Also, do I need a wide band A/F meter to tune all of these options ($300)
Finally, if I go to a dyno to get it tuned what exactly do they do for you and how do they tune your car...I know they can tell you information about how your running but how do they change everything.
Thanks for the help and I know that a lot of these are newbie questions but I am just trying to narrowing down my options.
One more thing...does anyone know where to get a driveshaft balanced? I have an aluminum one that needs balanced...should I just buy a new one?
Thanks for the help...Justin
Tuning questions and recommendations...
These are some very valid questions, and please, don't apologize for them. At least you came out and asked openly, rather than kinda floating in and out of discussions like you know what you're talking about, only to prove that you don't.
I think I can help clarify a few things for you.
A JWT tuned ECU is exactly that...an ECU that has been recalibrated for your particular setup and cannot be changed by anyone but them (because they use encryption to make the ROM information unreadable). Once you receive this ECU, you simply plug it in and go. You don't get it dyno tuned at the local shop because of the aforementioned encrypting.
JWT is notorious for having pretty slack timing (retarded too much) and silly rich fuel mixtures. The reason for this is to cover their butts. All engines are not the same, even if they're built the same and have the same exact parts. So, to cover all the bases, they just make it a little rich and retarded.
Enthalpy tunes are proven to be better than JWT tunes. RS Enthalpy does the same thing -you send them your ECU and setup specs and they return it, ready to plug in and use. These are also encrypted, so you can't retune them (or even examine the information for yourself). However, the Enthalpy tunes seem to be more appropriately calibrated.
The SAFC2 + BTM setup works well for many. Several people have cleared 300whp with that setup. While it is the same cost of a tuned ECU, at least you can have it fine tuned to optimum performance for your specific car.
The MegaSquirt is NOT for novice tuners. It requires quite a bit of wiring knowledge/ability and an advanced tuning knowledge. You'll need to be able to build base fuel and timing maps, then street tune it (for a good base), then hit the dyno for fine tuning. This might not be the best option for you.
You'll need to monitor AFR's via wideband O2 sensor if you tune any of these DIY setups on your own, without the use of a dyno. However, if you use a proper dyno facility, you won't need to invest in a wideband O2 sensor, as the dyno will have one onboard that goes in the tailpipe of the car. Keep in mind, if you have a catalytic converter, the reading will be a tad bit off, so you might want to still invest in a wideband, mounted upstream of the cat.
When you get your car dyno tuned (assuming you have a tuneable system), they'll go through many different steps to calibrate the fuel and/or timing maps to suit your engine's needs and obtain a proper balance of performance and reliability.
I think I can help clarify a few things for you.
A JWT tuned ECU is exactly that...an ECU that has been recalibrated for your particular setup and cannot be changed by anyone but them (because they use encryption to make the ROM information unreadable). Once you receive this ECU, you simply plug it in and go. You don't get it dyno tuned at the local shop because of the aforementioned encrypting.
JWT is notorious for having pretty slack timing (retarded too much) and silly rich fuel mixtures. The reason for this is to cover their butts. All engines are not the same, even if they're built the same and have the same exact parts. So, to cover all the bases, they just make it a little rich and retarded.
Enthalpy tunes are proven to be better than JWT tunes. RS Enthalpy does the same thing -you send them your ECU and setup specs and they return it, ready to plug in and use. These are also encrypted, so you can't retune them (or even examine the information for yourself). However, the Enthalpy tunes seem to be more appropriately calibrated.
The SAFC2 + BTM setup works well for many. Several people have cleared 300whp with that setup. While it is the same cost of a tuned ECU, at least you can have it fine tuned to optimum performance for your specific car.
The MegaSquirt is NOT for novice tuners. It requires quite a bit of wiring knowledge/ability and an advanced tuning knowledge. You'll need to be able to build base fuel and timing maps, then street tune it (for a good base), then hit the dyno for fine tuning. This might not be the best option for you.
You'll need to monitor AFR's via wideband O2 sensor if you tune any of these DIY setups on your own, without the use of a dyno. However, if you use a proper dyno facility, you won't need to invest in a wideband O2 sensor, as the dyno will have one onboard that goes in the tailpipe of the car. Keep in mind, if you have a catalytic converter, the reading will be a tad bit off, so you might want to still invest in a wideband, mounted upstream of the cat.
When you get your car dyno tuned (assuming you have a tuneable system), they'll go through many different steps to calibrate the fuel and/or timing maps to suit your engine's needs and obtain a proper balance of performance and reliability.
Re: (KATwo40)
thanks for the help KATwo40...
so a few more questions before I make my decision...
Can a dyno tune just a stock ecu or do I need a safc II and MSD BTM?
Exoticperformanceplus is pretty close to my house and have a good dyno setup...any idea or guess if the $150/hr includes tuning or is it just to use it?
Is there a site where you can buy the enthalpy tune direct and is this still a good option if I ever want to dial up the boost or change my setup at all?
Are 480cc injectors sufficient?
thanks a lot
so a few more questions before I make my decision...
Can a dyno tune just a stock ecu or do I need a safc II and MSD BTM?
Exoticperformanceplus is pretty close to my house and have a good dyno setup...any idea or guess if the $150/hr includes tuning or is it just to use it?
Is there a site where you can buy the enthalpy tune direct and is this still a good option if I ever want to dial up the boost or change my setup at all?
Are 480cc injectors sufficient?
thanks a lot
The stock ECU can be recalibrated, but it requires some special equipment. If it's a SOHC engine, you'll need a zif socket, EEPROM chipset and chipburner, and the necessary software for retuning. If it's a DOHC engine, you'll need a daughterboard with dual EEPROM chips and a burner and software.
So, if you don't have this equipment (or the knowledge to use it), you'll need the SAFC2 / BTM combo.
One other thing to consider, if you're dead set on having a tunable system for low cost/maintenance would be the Greddy Emanage Ultimate. While it's still a piggyback system (not independent of the stock ECU), it can control both fuel and timing and can be tuned on the dyno.
The rate you just quoted seems like just a usage rate, not a tuning rate. The dyno itself doesn't tune anything. It's simply a tool used to provide the proper controlled environment to calibrate a tuning system. The actual tuning is done by an individual.
The Enthalpy tune is good. Seems like the most recent information over on Fresh Alloy shows the Enthalpy tune maxing out around 550+whp.
The 480's are going to get you pretty near 300whp, but I wouldn't bank on seeing much over that with them. If you opt for the mail-order ROM tune (JWT or Enthalpy), you'd be better off getting injectors more suited for the 400whp goal you have (700cc or higher), because you can't simply swap them out later, after the tune. Using the 480's would require a re-tune to accomodate the 700's.
Do a Google search for RS Enthalpy ECU tuning and you'll find the site. It's nothin' fancy, but the tunes are solid. Many people on this and other forums use them.
So, if you don't have this equipment (or the knowledge to use it), you'll need the SAFC2 / BTM combo.
One other thing to consider, if you're dead set on having a tunable system for low cost/maintenance would be the Greddy Emanage Ultimate. While it's still a piggyback system (not independent of the stock ECU), it can control both fuel and timing and can be tuned on the dyno.
The rate you just quoted seems like just a usage rate, not a tuning rate. The dyno itself doesn't tune anything. It's simply a tool used to provide the proper controlled environment to calibrate a tuning system. The actual tuning is done by an individual.
The Enthalpy tune is good. Seems like the most recent information over on Fresh Alloy shows the Enthalpy tune maxing out around 550+whp.
The 480's are going to get you pretty near 300whp, but I wouldn't bank on seeing much over that with them. If you opt for the mail-order ROM tune (JWT or Enthalpy), you'd be better off getting injectors more suited for the 400whp goal you have (700cc or higher), because you can't simply swap them out later, after the tune. Using the 480's would require a re-tune to accomodate the 700's.
Do a Google search for RS Enthalpy ECU tuning and you'll find the site. It's nothin' fancy, but the tunes are solid. Many people on this and other forums use them.
Re: (KATwo40)
Thanks for the continued help...You mentioned the Emanage Ultimate and I looked into it and it seems to be a good choice...would you recommended it?Is it relatively easy to tune? and it controls fuel and spark right?Also, do you think I should also invest in a wideband a/f meter? I have a laptop so I could street tune?
Bottom line: for $400 to spend on tuning do you think the Emanage Ultimate would be the best buy and especially if I want it to be versatile?
Bottom line: for $400 to spend on tuning do you think the Emanage Ultimate would be the best buy and especially if I want it to be versatile?
For $400, with a limited knowledge of tuning, the Emanage Ultimate would be the best, giving you good performance and reliability, as well as the option to easily upgrade injectors, MAF sensor, and re-tune for higher boost levels.
However, this is not considered a novice tuning platform. If you don't understand how a set of correction tables work, you might want to wait until you've researched and educated yourself, OR budget enough to pay someone for the tuning (which your local speed shop SHOULD be able to handle).
Again, a wideband O2 setup is never a bad idea, even though the dyno facility will have one (if they don't, you shouldn't be there). It's always helpful to compare the two readouts for descrepancies and such.
However, this is not considered a novice tuning platform. If you don't understand how a set of correction tables work, you might want to wait until you've researched and educated yourself, OR budget enough to pay someone for the tuning (which your local speed shop SHOULD be able to handle).
Again, a wideband O2 setup is never a bad idea, even though the dyno facility will have one (if they don't, you shouldn't be there). It's always helpful to compare the two readouts for descrepancies and such.
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Florida240sx
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- Car: 1993 Nissan 240SX Hatch 5spd
2012 Nissan Altima S coupe 2.5 - Location: DeLand FL
Re: (Florida240sx)
ok sorry guys few more questions...
If I go jwt or enthalpy can I simply plug and play at about 12psi if I just tell them what setup I'm running. If I do that will it be reliable and will the AFR be safe so I don' t blow anything up...ie i wont have to buy a wideband?
If I don't buy anything can I go to a shop and have them tune it for me...If I don't run a cat and they use a wide band meter won't they be able to dial in the afr pretty good? Basically can they tune my stock ecu and how much should that cost?
If I just go piggyback ( I know bandaid) is a asfcII and btm setup safe to run 12psi at and if I go this route I will have to buy a wide band meter right?
Thank you for the continued support...Justin
If I go jwt or enthalpy can I simply plug and play at about 12psi if I just tell them what setup I'm running. If I do that will it be reliable and will the AFR be safe so I don' t blow anything up...ie i wont have to buy a wideband?
If I don't buy anything can I go to a shop and have them tune it for me...If I don't run a cat and they use a wide band meter won't they be able to dial in the afr pretty good? Basically can they tune my stock ecu and how much should that cost?
If I just go piggyback ( I know bandaid) is a asfcII and btm setup safe to run 12psi at and if I go this route I will have to buy a wide band meter right?
Thank you for the continued support...Justin
Re: (jtbball)
Yes, a decent setup with one of these ECU's will allow you to run 12psi with reliable AFR's. It shouldnt blow up but there are no promisesjtbball wrote:ok sorry guys few more questions...
If I go jwt or enthalpy can I simply plug and play at about 12psi if I just tell them what setup I'm running. If I do that will it be reliable and will the AFR be safe so I don' t blow anything up...ie i wont have to buy a wideband?
In order to tune with your stock ECU, you would need a fuel managment system such as the AFC, or greddy emanage. In this case you would need the wideband. Dyno tuning varies but I would say atleast $50 an hour, you would def want to take it to a place that has worked on a turbo ka motor before in my opinion also.jtbball wrote:If I don't buy anything can I go to a shop and have them tune it for me...If I don't run a cat and they use a wide band meter won't they be able to dial in the afr pretty good? Basically can they tune my stock ecu and how much should that cost?
Kinda awnsered this already but, yes you would need a wideband. Yes it would be safe to run 12psi provided to tune the afc right, and have the BTM retarted the right amount.jtbball wrote:If I just go piggyback ( I know bandaid) is a asfcII and btm setup safe to run 12psi at and if I go this route I will have to buy a wide band meter right?
Re: Tuning questions and recommendations... (jtbball)
Which motor do you have, the E or DE.
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Florida240sx
- Posts: 11114
- Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:17 am
- Car: 1993 Nissan 240SX Hatch 5spd
2012 Nissan Altima S coupe 2.5 - Location: DeLand FL