Tube Front End Build.

[jefferz]

I had a buddy of mine crash his car at an XDC event in Buffalo. He ate the wall pretty hard. The car is powered by an LT1 Supercharged motor. Dyno numbers coming soon. Anyways, here is some pictures of the rebuild process

























BONUS. -----
Picked up this bike on saturday. Turned into a bobber in a few hours lol.

[Ace2cool]

Wow, awesome work on the car! Not a fan of the bobber style with bikes, though it is clean. I'm contemplating cafe styling my '74 CB550 though.

[pepesilvia]

hold on.... i know that S13! it used to be parked outside community auto center in wanaque NJ right? right off 287?

[jefferz]

yeah use to be! lol. I helped build that car at the shop. Then since have opened my own shop and he came with!

[OutToWinPAHC]

not bad but please say there is more than one tube now

[jefferz]

not bad but please say there is more than one tube now

I dont have any pics yet but yes i did. I did this front end a few months back.

[OutToWinPAHC]

okay that makes more sense now

[mechanicalmoron]

He upped the stakes a bit, ehh.... that car's next crash of that size will be it's last, there's no more crumple zone, the much sturdier tubes will transmit force directly to the strut tower, and put the crumple between the tower and the cabin.

[liquid_cool]

proves you can replace anything with a welder and a sawsall! ...i would have cut the front off a donor car myself..and he's correct about the crumple zone.

[mechanicalmoron]

proves you can replace anything with a welder and a sawsall! ...i would have cut the front off a donor car myself..and he's correct about the crumple zone.

Well with the work he went to, he could have built in a crumple zone, he could have even just used smaller tube, I've seen tube fronts that should be superior to the stock front, but that would still crumple if they had to.

But I just see that thing being way TOO strong. And there's no way to reinforce behind it, because then it will just punch through the firewall.... you get my point. You've got to have a soft spot in the front to save what's behind it.

[Razi]

That's how Dai and other FD drivers have their cars built.


Sturdy stuff for areas that have to do with the car's structure, and thinner stuff for things that are there to just hold up bodywork.

Daigo's stuff is even weaker. Maybe too weak.

[mechanicalmoron]

That's how Dai and other FD drivers have their cars built.


Sturdy stuff for areas that have to do with the car's structure, and thinner stuff for things that are there to just hold up bodywork.

Daigo's stuff is even weaker. Maybe too weak.

But, those are higher stakes builds, inherently. It makes more sense to really do anything possibly for rigidy, for them.

Besides, top one looks perfect, how it's braced makes a lot more sense than what I saw of OP's (friends). The rails are connected to the towers by heavy stuff, but there's a much smaller bar out front that will crumple and slow things, and probably save more behind it. Specifically, he could knick a corner (pretty hard) and it wouldn't damage the heavier structure, the diagonal tubes are what gives the frame it's strength, and they're tucked in He also left some more fender structure in place. In OP's pictures, the corners will do devastating things to the frame, if you hit them.

Just imagine if he crashed that front end, in the way he originally crashed it. It'll total the car where it needs either a donor front welded on at the firewall, or a whole new shell, I'd wager. It just looks like the one you posted was more carefully designed.

But I could be wrong, I've never built, or driven, or wrecked, a car with a tube front. I have wrecked a normal front end (not a 240), I hit a pickup, and the hood and core support crumpled and saved the frame, it's still being driven in the same shape.

*edit* he either botched it before a finial (and safer for the car's welbeing) product, or else there's two cars there. He originally had it mocked up with replacement silvia parts, and then with buckets and changed where a tube meets the strut towers, and then added a bunch more and did some cutting/bending. The finial one pictured looks a lot better, but the first looks like a disaster. And it really looks like two cars.... Or else he's VERY indecisive.

[jefferz]

That's how Dai and other FD drivers have their cars built.


Sturdy stuff for areas that have to do with the car's structure, and thinner stuff for things that are there to just hold up bodywork.

Daigo's stuff is even weaker. Maybe too weak.

But, those are higher stakes builds, inherently. It makes more sense to really do anything possibly for rigidy, for them.

Besides, top one looks perfect, how it's braced makes a lot more sense than what I saw of OP's (friends). The rails are connected to the towers by heavy stuff, but there's a much smaller bar out front that will crumple and slow things, and probably save more behind it. Specifically, he could knick a corner (pretty hard) and it wouldn't damage the heavier structure, the diagonal tubes are what gives the frame it's strength, and they're tucked in He also left some more fender structure in place. In OP's pictures, the corners will do devastating things to the frame, if you hit them.

Just imagine if he crashed that front end, in the way he originally crashed it. It'll total the car where it needs either a donor front welded on at the firewall, or a whole new shell, I'd wager. It just looks like the one you posted was more carefully designed.

But I could be wrong, I've never built, or driven, or wrecked, a car with a tube front. I have wrecked a normal front end (not a 240), I hit a pickup, and the hood and core support crumpled and saved the frame, it's still being driven in the same shape.

*edit* he either botched it before a finial (and safer for the car's welbeing) product, or else there's two cars there. He originally had it mocked up with replacement silvia parts, and then with buckets and changed where a tube meets the strut towers, and then added a bunch more and did some cutting/bending. The finial one pictured looks a lot better, but the first looks like a disaster. And it really looks like two cars.... Or else he's VERY indecisive.

If he crashes again hes going to need another shell anyways this one is pretty messed up anyways. frame rails tweeked and what not. All the welds are not complete only tack welds so if it hits they will bend have some give.

[pepesilvia]

dude, daigo saito is an awsome drifter. saw him a formula drift last year and he got snubbed. somehow i dont even think he came in top three, even though he was close. even my girlfriend new it was BS. I think formula drift is rigged. but still fun to watch........ anyway, yeah, i worked close to that community auto center but never have the balls to go check that thing out. who knew it had a supercharged LT1 under the hood? hahaha im very impressed

[OutToWinPAHC]

dude, daigo saito is an awsome drifter. saw him a formula drift last year and he got snubbed. somehow i dont even think he came in top three, even though he was close. even my girlfriend new it was BS. I think formula drift is rigged. but still fun to watch........ anyway, yeah, i worked close to that community auto center but never have the balls to go check that thing out. who knew it had a supercharged LT1 under the hood? hahaha im very impressed

Until the very end I was planning on inserting cool story bro here

[pepesilvia]

dude, daigo saito is an awsome drifter. saw him a formula drift last year and he got snubbed. somehow i dont even think he came in top three, even though he was close. even my girlfriend new it was BS. I think formula drift is rigged. but still fun to watch........ anyway, yeah, i worked close to that community auto center but never have the balls to go check that thing out. who knew it had a supercharged LT1 under the hood? hahaha im very impressed

Until the very end I was planning on inserting cool story bro here

my bad. i may have a touch of adhd

[liquid_cool]

i thought long and hard on this build and the structual safty behind it....unless the front tubing is connected in someway with the inside tubing of the cage..this could be a risk for the driver as the give point will be behind the shock towers...even if the tubing was connected to the cage on the inside of the car, it could cause searious damage to the driver as the front section is to ridgid..the brain could be forced forward on a head on impact or the collor bones broken due to the harness.. possibly even both..the forces have to travel somewhere..think of it like a golf ball vs a woofle ball..better yet..a pickup vs a mack truck..or a smart car vs a mack truck...in an accident, the driver of the truck will be hert and probly on the way to the hospital...but the driver of that smart car would be dead couse the body has NO give points ...the shock of the impact alone would kill him...please think a little more on your desighn..just becouse someone jumps out of a plane with no shute, doesent mean you should follow..

[jefferz]

i thought long and hard on this build and the structual safty behind it....unless the front tubing is connected in someway with the inside tubing of the cage..this could be a risk for the driver as the give point will be behind the shock towers...even if the tubing was connected to the cage on the inside of the car, it could cause searious damage to the driver as the front section is to ridgid..the brain could be forced forward on a head on impact or the collor bones broken due to the harness.. possibly even both..the forces have to travel somewhere..think of it like a golf ball vs a woofle ball..better yet..a pickup vs a mack truck..or a smart car vs a mack truck...in an accident, the driver of the truck will be hert and probly on the way to the hospital...but the driver of that smart car would be dead couse the body has NO give points ...the shock of the impact alone would kill him...please think a little more on your desighn..just becouse someone jumps out of a plane with no shute, doesent mean you should follow..

The points that the tube make contact to the chassis are not fully welded. Its to ensure that it crumples. I love how everyone on the forum is a know it all. When he crashes again Ill show you the pictures lol.

[mechanicalmoron]

i thought long and hard on this build and the structual safty behind it....unless the front tubing is connected in someway with the inside tubing of the cage..this could be a risk for the driver as the give point will be behind the shock towers...even if the tubing was connected to the cage on the inside of the car, it could cause searious damage to the driver as the front section is to ridgid..the brain could be forced forward on a head on impact or the collor bones broken due to the harness.. possibly even both..the forces have to travel somewhere..think of it like a golf ball vs a woofle ball..better yet..a pickup vs a mack truck..or a smart car vs a mack truck...in an accident, the driver of the truck will be hert and probly on the way to the hospital...but the driver of that smart car would be dead couse the body has NO give points ...the shock of the impact alone would kill him...please think a little more on your desighn..just becouse someone jumps out of a plane with no shute, doesent mean you should follow..

The points that the tube make contact to the chassis are not fully welded. Its to ensure that it crumples. I love how everyone on the forum is a know it all. When he crashes again Ill show you the pictures lol.

The tubes themselves are not going to crumple the same way. It doesn't matter if they break away a bit, they reduce the crumple area. If you cut a soda can in half and weld a swingset in place of half, it's going to have half as much cushion....

And, they're spot welds in the first pictures, with the really bad design. In the later re-done ones, the point where tthe tubes meet the strut towers is moved, the whole plate is welded to the strut tower with no spot welds, etc. And what's the point if it won't even give any additional rigidity for the sake of performance?

Tube frames can obviously serve a purpose, or plenty of them, but this one looks meh.

[liquid_cool]

i thought long and hard on this build and the structual safty behind it....unless the front tubing is connected in someway with the inside tubing of the cage..this could be a risk for the driver as the give point will be behind the shock towers...even if the tubing was connected to the cage on the inside of the car, it could cause searious damage to the driver as the front section is to ridgid..the brain could be forced forward on a head on impact or the collor bones broken due to the harness.. possibly even both..the forces have to travel somewhere..think of it like a golf ball vs a woofle ball..better yet..a pickup vs a mack truck..or a smart car vs a mack truck...in an accident, the driver of the truck will be hert and probly on the way to the hospital...but the driver of that smart car would be dead couse the body has NO give points ...the shock of the impact alone would kill him...please think a little more on your desighn..just becouse someone jumps out of a plane with no shute, doesent mean you should follow..

The points that the tube make contact to the chassis are not fully welded. Its to ensure that it crumples. I love how everyone on the forum is a know it all. When he crashes again Ill show you the pictures lol.

the point about safty equipment you dont realize is (It only need to work perfectly one time!)..if it is desighned not to save the driver from harm..but to save the car insted..then it has all ready failed!..minor accidents are fine for a crash bar..but its the what if's you plan and build for..ive done over 20 minor crashes and put my ride back together..no big deal..but every major crash..i get a new shell for safty..just my opinion, i could be wrong..but i doubt that i am in this matter.

[jefferz]

The points that the tube make contact to the chassis are not fully welded. Its to ensure that it crumples. I love how everyone on the forum is a know it all. When he crashes again Ill show you the pictures lol.

the point about safty equipment you dont realize is (It only need to work perfectly one time!)..if it is desighned not to save the driver from harm..but to save the car insted..then it has all ready failed!..minor accidents are fine for a crash bar..but its the what if's you plan and build for..ive done over 20 minor crashes and put my ride back together..no big deal..but every major crash..i get a new shell for safty..just my opinion, i could be wrong..but i doubt that i am in this matter.

Chassis are never the same after an accident anyways. He ate the wall hard. I would of went with a new chassis. He didnt want to. He also wanted me to make the structure stronger and i told him he was a idiot aha.

[liquid_cool]

Chassis are never the same after an accident anyways. He ate the wall hard. I would of went with a new chassis. He didnt want to. He also wanted me to make the structure stronger and i told him he was a idiot aha.[/quote]

you told him correctly then..there is a reason they make a hanz device..so ridged cars dont snap your neck in two due to the weight of the helmet and G-forces..try to talk him into a cleaner shell.