Troopergate? Preggo teens? Reverend Wright?

[Jesda]

It seems most of the political discussion and conjecture in mass media and even here focuses on side issues. No one is debating core issues and philosophies. Does this mean we've all made up our minds, and there's no need for policy discussion?

Instead of "We should leave/complete the mission in Iraq" we have "Palin's kid is retarded, and the other is a slut! Obama's a muslim!"

We hear about Jeremiah Wright, but no one is discussing any of Obama's expensive and ambitious agenda, or what it is that makes Senator McCain effectively different from President Bush.

Apparently our minds are already made up on the economy, the war, and everything else, so all that is left to discuss are scandals.

My point is this: In the end, Celebrity-O and Cranky Old Mac are going to give us more government. They only rape us through different orifices.I'm not suggesting the two candidates are the same, but more spending and more government is to be expected from both, even if one is worse than the other.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Moved.

[Cold_Zero]

Seriously Jesda, this is one of the reasons why Ron Paul (one of the better candidates in the Republican side of the race) got no traction. The guy wasn't interesting enough or scandalous enough for the "Entertainment Tonight" media complex. Even though (with the exception of a few of his stances) would be the best Presidential Candidate out of Clinton, Obama and McCain.bud

[Eikon]

Wow.. a thread in the political forum that isn't purely Mud Sliging and is in fact an intelligent thought that we can discuss. Thanks Jesda!

I think years of Jerry Springer and Maury Povich have changed the American media. We all see what the media decides to "sell us". Our culture has turned into a collective "drama queen". We now watch reality TV.. not for the survival or competition, but rather for the interpersonal drama. So what more could we expect from a political campaign now? DRAMA!!!

It's too bad. I'd like to hear more about what Obama specifically would do to change and improve our country if elected. I'd like to hear more about McCain's economic and foreign relations plans. I'd like to hear what Biden thinks about our economy. I'd like to hear anything about Sarah Palin that isn't a negative social drama attack.

Perhaps the American public is somewhat like I am... Not too excited about either Pres. candidate. So now it's just a competition to see who can stay off of Jerry Springer's stage.

[telcoman]

Oh f*ck. Someone move this to the politics section.

It seems most of the political discussion and conjecture in mass media and even here focuses on side issues. No one is debating core issues and philosophies. Does this mean we've all made up our minds, and there's no need for policy discussion?

Instead of "We should leave/complete the mission in Iraq" we have "Palin's kid is retarded, and the other is a slut! Obama's a muslim!"

We hear about Jeremiah Wright, but no one is discussing any of Obama's expensive and ambitious agenda, or what it is that makes Senator McCain effectively different from President Bush.

Apparently our minds are already made up on the economy, the war, and everything else, so all that is left to discuss are scandals.

My point is this: In the end, Celebrity-O and Cranky Old Mac are going to give us more government. They only rape us through different orifices.I'm not suggesting the two candidates are the same, but more spending and more government is to be expected from both, even if one is worse than the other.

I watched all the Sunday talk shows yesterday.

While Obama and Biden were talking about important issues facing the American People in this election (the economy, jobs, health care, education, etc) McCain was trying to tell the American people that he was the agent of change and how he was going to change Washington.He hasn't done diddley for the past eight years so who does he think is going to believe him?

I know who!

The same people who were in the half filled convention center in St Paul?

Palin was missing. I guess she was studying?

Telcoman

[szh]

As usual, telcoman brings it right back to mud-slinging and innuendo. Did you miss the original topic of this post?

Now, back on topic:

I think that the US political process has been made into a bunch of sound-bites because people are so politically apathetic in this country.

There is no participation in the process by the voters, no active diving into and understanding of the policies advocated by the candidates, no serious look at the potential cabinets they would choose, etc.

Part of the problem is the two-party system, I think, which prevents us from looking harder at alternatives. That is a guess on my part.

Z

[Cold_Zero]

I watched all the Sunday talk shows yesterday.

While Obama and Biden were talking about important issues facing the American People in this election (the economy, jobs, health care, education, etc) McCain was trying to tell the American people that he was the agent of change and how he was going to change Washington.He hasn't done diddley for the past eight years so who does he think is going to believe him?

I know who!

The same people who were in the half filled convention center in St Paul?

Palin was missing. I guess she was studying?

Telcoman

Dude you are barking up the wrong tree if you think you are going to goad Jesda into a Republican vs. Democrat argument. Hahahahaa!

But seriously, when Obama and Biden were discussing their plans for improving this country, other than a price tag (of the amount of money they are going to throw at the problem) and the target people of their programs (let me guess low to middle-low class), what specifics about the program did they offer? Or were they just talking in generalities and platitudes?

[audtatious]

Seriously Jesda, this is one of the reasons why Ron Paul (one of the better candidates in the Republican side of the race) got no traction. The guy wasn't interesting enough or scandalous enough for the "Entertainment Tonight" media complex. Even though (with the exception of a few of his stances) would be the best Presidential Candidate out of Clinton, Obama and McCain.bud

I think RP may have been received better if he had not come across as being twice as grumpy as McCain and if he had preached reform of IRS and other agencies instead of wiping them out all-together, and I'm sure the Democrats had a problem with his abortion stance.

[HashiriyaS14]

I'm not suggesting the two candidates are the same, but more spending and more government is to be expected from both, even if one is worse than the other.

+1

I couldn't agree more. BOTH candidates will ultimately do whatever Petraeus tells them to do in Iraq, BOTH candidates will spend big money and NEITHER candidate will materially fix the deficit.

This is why I ultimately assert that the election will be won or lost based on the nation's current stances on the most divisive of social issues.

November will be won or lost based on people stances on stuff like abortion, firearms, the teaching of intelligent design, and shxt like that.

We stand to possibly replace several Supreme Court Justices in the next four years. This Presidential election will decide the course of this nation's Judicial rulings for the next twenty years.

[rn79870]

Why are you criticizing telco's post for not being on topic when the last paragraph of the op is?...

My point is this: In the end, Celebrity-O and Cranky Old Mac are going to give us more government. They only rape us through different orifices.I'm not suggesting the two candidates are the same, but more spending and more government is to be expected from both, even if one is worse than the other.

It appears that telco was merely commenting on that part of the post, and as such, he wasn't off topic. I read his post and I don't see it as mud-slinging and innuendo, instead, it is his observation of what he saw on the networks yesterday. There are people whose opinions differ in here and I'd hate to think that any of us tried to silence them for expressing them.

By the way, before anyone else starts, comments related to Palin's daughter being pregnant, or a child with special needs are not going to be welcome here. It just isn't a fair shot.

[rn79870]

Dude you are barking up the wrong tree if you think you are going to goad Jesda into a Republican vs. Democrat argument. Hahahahaa!

Now, we could sell tickets to that.

[wingFeather]

Apparently our minds are already made up on the economy, the war, and everything else

If one's mind isn't made up by now, should they really be voting at all?

The issues are clear... we need less government, less waste, finish what we started "over there" and moral leaders who we can look up to.

McCain/Palin fits the bill

Obama/sidekick do not.

[Cold_Zero]

Problems that I see with the current political and election process:1. The majority of Americans, including politicians do not understand the proper role of each branch in the federal government. Judges are too busy trying to legislate from the bench and the Legislators are too busy trying to administrate and run the executive branch. And I honestly think that people in the US dont want a President in the White House they want a dictator and those who don’t want a dictator what a motivational speaker to make them feel good.2. The United States has a massive amount of uninformed voters. We decry people who exercise their 2nd amendment rights with out being properly trained and informed about the risks, yet we have no problem with motor voter programs, get out the vote registrations programs that sign up anyone and everyone to vote regardless if they have educated themselves on the issues or candidates. 3. Negative ads- We claim we hate them, but if they weren't so effective in getting people to vote, each party would not engage in them.4. We have come to a phase where party loyalty and toting the party line is more important than governing or legislating the country. I have seen this first hand with the Republican Party here in Indianapolis. The head of the Republican Party in Indianapolis has driven people out of the party who do not tote his personal party line and consolidated it into his own personal club. My neighbor who use to be part of the local township Republican Party has since left the group and ran as an Independent candidate for Mayor of our local city/township. Each party has no need for independent thinkers or anyone that can work together with people of a different party.5. Polarization- We have come to a point where its more important to fight to the death over your pet issues than it does to have common agreements on certain aspects of the issues and choose to disagree on other aspects. But at the end of the day, why can't we respect someone else's viewpoint instead of attacking it? Don't believe look at the rise of combative talk radio, cable news and movie directors like Michael Moore.6. When this country is faced with a problem, we try to build a more complex government, governmental programs or spend more money to fix the problem. I know this will come off sounding mean, but during Katrina I was repulsed by the amount of people that decried the Federal Government for not coming to the aid fast enough or being ready. Yet their own State and Local governments (who in my mind are responsible as first responders) were given a free pass. Katrina was an ‘Act of God’ that couldn’t have been anticipated until too late. Yet, when it was over it was private Americans that stepped up to the plate to help out their neighbors. Sure the Federal Government can have some role with clean up and assistance, but the Federal Government is not some ATM that should be used as a handout to fix all of our problems. No instead of rolling up our sleeves and getting to work, we wait for the government to step in and fix all of our problems. What is even more egregious is the fact that Conservatives think have embraced this line of thinking.

For all the talk that both Obama and McCain talk about cleaning up Washington, in order to clean up Washington (and I am not talking about going after the other party's political base or lobbyists) you must first change the mentality of the people that send their politicians to Washington. Forcing lobbyists to stand up during dinner with politicians does not fix the problem. It's a stupid idea.

[HashiriyaS14]

we need less government

Neither candidate is a small-government fiscal conservative. Obama will spend a ton of money on programs like health care and sustainable energy infrastructure funded by a tax on the wealthy. McCain will cut taxes on the wealthy without cutting spending and further run up the deficit. Neither one of them has any detailed plan for actually cutting government spending because NEITHER CANDIDATE PLANS ON MATERIALLY CUTTING GOVERNMENT SPENDING.

Just because the GOP has historically been the champion of small government doesn't mean that they still are. They haven't elected a true fiscal conservative in a very long time. Bush isn't one and McCain isn't one either, obviously neither is Obama.

You just don't have that option this go around, unless you vote for, say, Barr.

It's just a matter of deciding what you want to spend the money on, because it's going to get spent regardless of who wins.

less waste

Neither candidate will materially decrease earmarks and pork. Every politician at the federal level promises it but the realities of legislative officials needing to keep their seats undermines it. It won't happen.

NEITHER candidate could come close to keeping this promise. Pork is how other things get done. People in Congress get behind politically unpopular-but-necessary legislation in exchange for some locally-beneficial pork that they can use to help keep their seats. Welcome to American representative Democracy. Don't buy the promises on EITHER side with this issue.

finish what we started "over there"

Petraeus and the Iraqi government is recommending a handover sooner rather than later. We're going to do whatever they tell us to do, or at least we'd better. Neither candidate knows better than David Petraeus and the Iraqis.

moral leaders who we can look up to.

Your morals are probably not the majority's morals. Like it or not, the contingent of this nation that is pro-life, anti-stem-cell, pro-intelligent design, et cetera is a vocal MINORITY of the US population.

The GOP avoids this stuff in their convention speeches for a reason. If they make a big deal out of it, it will render them unelectable.