Tree Hugging and Environmental Lunacy

[Jacko3]

How can this planet become environmentally clean and friendly if humans are so determined to continue swelling the population of planet earth? Is the design of new environmentally friendly equipment, the answer? And is restricting the enjoyment of basic human vices the answer to cleaning up the earth? Or is reducing the number of souls on this planet, so as to reduce the amount of resources used, the answer? was the earth designed or meant to handle 6 billion people effectively? Every year, I feel like they are dragging me to hug that three. I don't wanna hug no tree. Please help!


Modified by Jacko3 at 5:33 PM 2/27/2009

[dusred]

Anyone who says the Earth is overpopulated should go and kill themselves. . . seriously. It would be 1 less person on the earth right? If they were really concerned about it they should take their own lives.

[Jacko3]

Anyone who says the Earth is overpopulated should go and kill themselves. . . seriously. It would be 1 less person on the earth right? If they were really concerned about it they should take their own lives.

That is another issue, if we do decide to thin the earth's population as an environmentally wise option, what would be the criteria for that thinning process? Who goes and who stays? What are your thoughts on this?

[OriginalWheelman]

[Logan76]

I think too many prisoners sit on death row as we as taxpayers pay for them to be there, finish the job for gods sake.

[liquid_cool]

Again folks..there are bigger issues..

#1) look at the time television story on "Chernoble" [dont know how thats spelld] anyways..that place 20 years after a nuclear meltdown looks like a forest..there are only slight remnants of human populations there..nature has taken over...who is to say that we as human are destroying this planet?..we can reshape it a litte with construction and land grading..but if left for some time..nature will take it back!..nothing we could possibly do to this planet will ever couse life to end..not even global thermal nuclear warfare...are we so arogant as to beleive our powers of destruction by living our lives is that powerfull....go push on a tree for a while and see if it moves..lol

#2.) Global Warming is a scam to rais taxes on stupid Americans who buy into that crap..we have been in a cooling trend for over 10 years now..example#1: England throu there history has had slight production in WINE GRAPES..its been noted throu-out there documented history that some famous vinyards had to stop production for 20 year cycles being that it is too cold for the winegrape to produce "so say historians" today there are closures to the few winegrape producing vineyards due to the climate and the inability to grow grapes becouse its too cold!#2.) Alaska was one time subtropical...thats why they found dinosours there....its a friggin icecube now! with record snowfall and icing...how do we as humans with our limited recorded history think that this could be the median temp here on earth when alaska and most of that area was ones a green tropical or subtropical area with life abundant...#3.)the fuel tax was just raised by congress in the porkulus bill by 50%!..why..global warming bull crap..allso..congress is starting "Capp and trade"..if ya done know what that is its a way to pay for your Co2 usage..lol..thats rite..you pay the federal government as a busness owner to omitt Co2 in the form of a tax!..Co2..guess what..we all breath O2 and omit Co2..soon we will pay to breath!this global warming crap is the biggest scam to hit the nation and like little "Cattle" most americans out of fear fall for it..its one big marketing ploy to separate you from your coin..thats all.. Buy green!..Tax green!..f-ing scam.

[Jacko3]

Again folks..there are bigger issues..

#1) look at the time television story on "Chernoble" [dont know how thats spelld] anyways..that place 20 years after a nuclear meltdown looks like a forest..there are only slight remnants of human populations there..nature has taken over...who is to say that we as human are destroying this planet?..we can reshape it a litte with construction and land grading..but if left for some time..nature will take it back!..nothing we could possibly do to this planet will ever couse life to end..not even global thermal nuclear warfare...are we so arogant as to beleive our powers of destruction by living our lives is that powerfull....go push on a tree for a while and see if it moves..lol

#2.) Global Warming is a scam to rais taxes on stupid Americans who buy into that crap..we have been in a cooling trend for over 10 years now..example#1: England throu there history has had slight production in WINE GRAPES..its been noted throu-out there documented history that some famous vinyards had to stop production for 20 year cycles being that it is too cold for the winegrape to produce "so say historians" today there are closures to the few winegrape producing vineyards due to the climate and the inability to grow grapes becouse its too cold!#2.) Alaska was one time subtropical...thats why they found dinosours there....its a friggin icecube now! with record snowfall and icing...how do we as humans with our limited recorded history think that this could be the median temp here on earth when alaska and most of that area was ones a green tropical or subtropical area with life abundant...#3.)the fuel tax was just raised by congress in the porkulus bill by 50%!..why..global warming bull crap..allso..congress is starting "Capp and trade"..if ya done know what that is its a way to pay for your Co2 usage..lol..thats rite..you pay the federal government as a busness owner to omitt Co2 in the form of a tax!..Co2..guess what..we all breath O2 and omit Co2..soon we will pay to breath!this global warming crap is the biggest scam to hit the nation and like little "Cattle" most americans out of fear fall for it..its one big marketing ploy to separate you from your coin..thats all.. Buy green!..Tax green!..f-ing scam.

Excellent points. For a while now, I myself have felt my senses tingling inside of me, in that this global warming stuff may be a scam. I mean, California now wants to include catalytic converters in lawn mowers. None of the global warming studies so far has effectively demonstrated that the variations in temperature which may be causing global warming, is not part of the ever befuddling and yet normal cycle of Earth's tendency to keep evolving as existing conditions demand it. Is earth doing what it has always done for millions of years or is modern day man using hype of global warming to extort and milk unsuspecting citizens of planet earth? Where does the truth lie? Citing studies in peer-review journals, can be dishonest, to the extent that peer-review articles are sometimes selected for publication on the basis of political correctness and not on the basis of academic dissent and critical evaluation.

[480sx]

Excellent points. For a while now, I myself have felt my senses tingling inside of me, in that this global warming stuff may be a scam.

Id go with those tingling senses over science any day.

I mean, California now wants to include catalytic converters in lawn mowers.

OMFG! GOD NO! HAS THE WORLD GONE MAD!

None of the global warming studies so far has effectively demonstrated that the variations in temperature which may be causing global warming, is not part of the ever befuddling and yet normal cycle of Earth's tendency to keep evolving as existing conditions demand it.

What a stupidly written sentence. You try way, way to hard.

How are you supposed to demonstrate that global warming is happening? Set up a little earth with a little atmosphere in a lab and check it out?

Fact is, there is a metric ton of research that points that carbon emissions, among the rest of the stuff we are putting into the atmosphere, has a negative effect on our environment. Hole in the ozone? A huge die off in coral reefs tied to a global ocean temperature increase over the last 20-30 years? The increase in the occurrence of Mega hurricanes along with other crazy weather? Stuff that used to be referred to as the 100 year storm, is now more like the 25-50 year storm. Coral reefs have been alive for millions and millions of years, and now all of the sudden they are dieing at an alarming rate.

So yea, its all about those god damn tree hugging money hungry hippie lunatics X.

[liquid_cool]

hippy bro..i disagree man....for every 1 scientist agreeing with the climate change scam..there are 5 screeming its a hoax..why then do you ask are they saying global warming is in fact the couse of our ill's?..becouse they are invested finacially in wind,solar,hydrogen energy...Al Gores portfolio is public information..look what he has a stock in..its all a scam man..you have been had...the sad part is there is a political side to all of this..taxation...if you do some carefull reading ..you will find a few dems looking for creative ways to tax the American Consumer in the guise of saving the planet...Cap and Trade, permile tax for driving..fuel tax..gas guzzler tax, per tire enviromental fee,tire disposal fee, battery enviromental fee, battery recycling fee, i can keep going on forever just on the car stuff..if we went to house hold items the list would be crazy!...its about money plain and simple....ohh and (mar's)..the atmosphere is 98%Co2..and its below zero there man..

[S13_love]

Again folks..there are bigger issues..

#1) look at the time television story on "Chernoble" [dont know how thats spelld] anyways..that place 20 years after a nuclear meltdown looks like a forest..there are only slight remnants of human populations there..nature has taken over...who is to say that we as human are destroying this planet?..we can reshape it a litte with construction and land grading..but if left for some time..nature will take it back!

Yes, that whole Chernobyl thing never ceases to amaze me...its so weird that there is actually an area on our earth in which humans can't go back and live there safely for another 50,000-100,000 years (< correct, yes or no?)

Also...nature is very much unforgiving...you are right when you say that it will take it back.

[480sx]

Liquid, there is no possible way to know what we are doing to the Earth today. I am not saying for sure that global warming exists. However, there is evidence to support that theory.

In addition, how can you say that dumping all the other tons of crap we send into the atmosphere, or water, or soil, doesnt have some negative effect on our environment and everything on this planet? Acid rain dude(one small example)! There are so many other variables here that your not thinking about. Distance yourself from global warming for a second and think about all the other things that we could possibly be doing to our atmosphere and planet.

I refuse to believe that 'its all a hoax'. There is to much real data to believe that its all a hoax. There are strong arguments on both sides of this field, neither one of them has much of a leg to stand on right now because simply, there is not enough data to figure out what were really doing. The accurate technology to measure world temps, atmospheric gas levels, trade winds, ocean currents, among with a whole other plethora of variables that have only been measured well for the last ~50 years.

People might have capitalized big from the threat of global warming, but thats capitalism. If there was nothing substantial there, they would not have been able to do what they did. Everyone would have called BS and Al Gore probably wouldnt have won a Nobel peace prize.

Damn you WD.

[Jacko3]

Id go with those tingling senses over science any day.

OMFG! GOD NO! HAS THE WORLD GONE MAD!

What a stupidly written sentence. You try way, way to hard.

How are you supposed to demonstrate that global warming is happening? Set up a little earth with a little atmosphere in a lab and check it out?

Fact is, there is a metric ton of research that points that carbon emissions, among the rest of the stuff we are putting into the atmosphere, has a negative effect on our environment. Hole in the ozone? A huge die off in coral reefs tied to a global ocean temperature increase over the last 20-30 years? The increase in the occurrence of Mega hurricanes along with other crazy weather? Stuff that used to be referred to as the 100 year storm, is now more like the 25-50 year storm. Coral reefs have been alive for millions and millions of years, and now all of the sudden they are dieing at an alarming rate.

So yea, its all about those god damn tree hugging money hungry hippie lunatics X.

Why would you choose to describe a sentence as "stupidly written", even if you beleive it is so? Are you attempting to be a self-prescribed literary masochist who may derive joy in the literary pain/fumbles of others, not that it bothers me? Is being nice a chore of sorts for you? Where did you learn to express one self in such an unproductive manner? Poor choice of words, nonetheless, a poor choice of words. My experience has taught me that it is far easier and healthy to be nicer than being rude. Try it! Nice is healthy!

Anyways, research also shows that farm animals and wildlife creatures (herbivores), produce more methane than all of man-made equipment. In fact, there is talk about taxing farms and farmers for the methane produced by their livestocks. Methane is a significant green-house gas.

The tons of study you cite only present evidence stored on fossils and age long ice layers. No one knows whether the earth is going through a normal cycle of evolution or not. There is no proof to this end. Simply producing or showing evidence that a change is occuring, does not definitively imply such changes are a direct and specific result of only human activities. What part of these incidences are human derived, and what part of these activities, are an act of nature? When you find such a study that answers that question effectively, then you might have a point, and possibly eschew deriding comments as "stupidly written".


Modified by Jacko3 at 8:54 AM 3/1/2009

[Jacko3]

Liquid, there is no possible way to know what we are doing to the Earth today. I am not saying for sure that global warming exists. However, there is evidence to support that theory.

In addition, how can you say that dumping all the other tons of crap we send into the atmosphere, or water, or soil, doesnt have some negative effect on our environment and everything on this planet? Acid rain dude(one small example)! There are so many other variables here that your not thinking about. Distance yourself from global warming for a second and think about all the other things that we could possibly be doing to our atmosphere and planet.

I refuse to believe that 'its all a hoax'. There is to much real data to believe that its all a hoax. There are strong arguments on both sides of this field, neither one of them has much of a leg to stand on right now because simply, there is not enough data to figure out what were really doing. The accurate technology to measure world temps, atmospheric gas levels, trade winds, ocean currents, among with a whole other plethora of variables that have only been measured well for the last ~50 years.

People might have capitalized big from the threat of global warming, but thats capitalism. If there was nothing substantial there, they would not have been able to do what they did. Everyone would have called BS and Al Gore probably wouldnt have won a Nobel peace prize.

Damn you WD.

Isn't it amazing how you speak to "Liquid Cool" with some decorum? Why is that? I am curious!

So, what is the core of your argument, if you don't know if global warming exists?

Does all the stuff we dump into the environment, fully account for the global warming phenomenon or dies the earth have the capacity to adjust itself to absorb those toxic substances for a period, until those substances are depleted form the environment, through natural means?

What variables are you talking about? Give us some examples, will ya?

And I ask you again, what portion of global warming is man-made and what portion is a result of the natural ordering and cleansing of the earth, by itself? You keep talking about variables and we are all still left scratching our heads on what these variables are? Can you be more specific?

[liquid_cool]

Liquid, there is no possible way to know what we are doing to the Earth today. I am not saying for sure that global warming exists. However, there is evidence to support that theory.

In addition, how can you say that dumping all the other tons of crap we send into the atmosphere, or water, or soil, doesnt have some negative effect on our environment and everything on this planet? Acid rain dude(one small example)! There are so many other variables here that your not thinking about. Distance yourself from global warming for a second and think about all the other things that we could possibly be doing to our atmosphere and planet.

I refuse to believe that 'its all a hoax'. There is to much real data to believe that its all a hoax. There are strong arguments on both sides of this field, neither one of them has much of a leg to stand on right now because simply, there is not enough data to figure out what were really doing. The accurate technology to measure world temps, atmospheric gas levels, trade winds, ocean currents, among with a whole other plethora of variables that have only been measured well for the last ~50 years.

People might have capitalized big from the threat of global warming, but thats capitalism. If there was nothing substantial there, they would not have been able to do what they did. Everyone would have called BS and Al Gore probably wouldnt have won a Nobel peace prize.

Damn you WD.

show me the data from a scientific source..not the news meadia and ill be impressed...the leader of the national wheather service even stated its a hoax..yes we polute..but we polute what we derive off of natural reasorces anyways..the planet does recover from it....example...{Mount St. Helens} when Mt.St. Helens erupted it dumped more polutants in the atmothphere than all of out industrial age to the present date...thats rite..in one day..it dumped more toxin's ash and chemical polutants...than in all or our known existance of using the combustion engine to the present date including what factorys polute...thats fact and in any history book and google has it to...who are we as men to think we can actually harm this planet in a permanant way...this planet has forces the like you or i have ever seen..and is for more distructive to life its self then we could ever be....find me actuall proof of global warmaing in a statistical form from say the early 1800's to the present date 2009 and then look at the datum..you will find the hotest record holding days are not the present date..but far in our past sir..reaserch is key to understanding.

[480sx]

Uhg.. Im not getting into another full blown environmental debate, especially in this thread. Liquid, you make good points, i still however stand by my statements. Like i have said, both sides of the argument have good points, and its simply to soon to pick a side, although i usually eer on the side of caution.

There are so many variables such as (MY OWN QUOTE FROM THE SAME POST.) "The accurate technology to measure world temps, atmospheric gas levels, trade winds, ocean currents, among with a whole other plethora of variables that have only been measured well for the last ~50 years. "

I even used the word variables in that sentence. I sense great levels of fail within you.

Isn't it amazing how you speak to "Liquid Cool" with some decorum? Why is that? I am curious!

Because i have a level of respect for him. I cant believe i even answered this question, its self evident.

My experience has taught me that it is far easier and healthy to be nicer than being rude. Try it! Nice is healthy!

Easier and healthier to be nice to someone.. like you? Healthier to just plaster that smile across your face and type words to people you really dont like at all, while using friendly manners(woman). Ill take my random use of rageohol thank you. Its far easier, more healthy(and fun!) than well.. Whatever the hell you do.

Just FYI, there are only 2 people on this forum that I have issues with. Your one of them, the other has serious personal issues that i really dont know at all or understand, so i really only have issues with you at this point.
Modified by 480sx at 11:43 AM 3/1/2009

[Jacko3]

Uhg.. Im not getting into another full blown environmental debate, especially in this thread. Liquid, you make good points, i still however stand by my statements. Like i have said, both sides of the argument have good points, and its simply to soon to pick a side, although i usually eer on the side of caution.

There are so many variables such as (MY OWN QUOTE FROM THE SAME POST.) "The accurate technology to measure world temps, atmospheric gas levels, trade winds, ocean currents, among with a whole other plethora of variables that have only been measured well for the last ~50 years. "

I even used the word variables in that sentence. I sense great levels of fail within you.

Because i have a level of respect for him. I cant believe i even answered this question, its self evident.

Easier and healthier to be nice to someone.. like you? Healthier to just plaster that smile across your face and type words to people you really dont like at all, while using friendly manners(woman). Ill take my random use of rageohol thank you. Its far easier, more healthy(and fun!) than well.. Whatever the hell you do.

Just FYI, there are only 2 people on this forum that I have issues with. Your one of them, the other has serious personal issues that i really dont know at all or understand, so i really only have issues with you at this point.

Modified by 480sx at 11:43 AM 3/1/2009

I am honored to be a source of rageohol. Interesting!

I don't care who you have a respect for---its simply normal to be nice to everyone. My parents taught me to be that way when i was a kid.

You can be sure of one thing: I will never use such foul words on anyone or at anytime. But i will use nice words, when I have to, that can create the same ethos of unfounded, casual, and immaterial hostility. Trust me, I am good for that. Thats why my title is NICO's poet!
Modified by Jacko3 at 12:36 PM 3/1/2009

[480sx]

Way to ignore my argument and the fact that you fail in favor of trying to feed your alter ego, or whatever reason you have decided to start playing with men in the politics forum.

I am honored to be a source of rageohol. Interesting!

You are the equivalent to a shot glass full of Amstel ultra light.

its simply normal to be nice to everyone. My parents taught me to be that way when i was a kid.

There are some people that no mater what you do, no mater how nice you are, they are still ***holes and if you are nice to them then your a p****. You are also an enabler. Its not normal to be nice to everyone, your parents, and you are wrong. Anyway, normal? Give me a break.

that can create the same ethos of unfounded, casual, and immaterial hostility. Trust me, I am good for that. Thats why my title is NICO's poet!

You dont deserve your title IMO. It leads people(well me at least) to believe you are(were) respectable. I would bet you a million dollars that the s*** i wrote when i was a kid blows anything you will ever write in your life out of the water, to say nothing of what i write now. But thats just a pissing and moaning contest, and im not going to back it up, i simply dont care to, your just not worth it.

I am however very curious as to how/why you got that title. If it were up to me i would give you something like idk.. Verbose Vaejay.

[Jacko3]

Way to ignore my argument and the fact that you fail in favor of trying to feed your alter ego, or whatever reason you have decided to start playing with men in the politics forum.

You are the equivalent to a shot glass full of Amstel ultra light.

There are some people that no mater what you do, no mater how nice you are, they are still ***holes and if you are nice to them then your a p****. You are also an enabler. Its not normal to be nice to everyone, your parents, and you are wrong. Anyway, normal? Give me a break.

You dont deserve your title IMO. It leads people(well me at least) to believe you are(were) respectable. I would bet you a million dollars that the s*** i wrote when i was a kid blows anything you will ever write in your life out of the water, to say nothing of what i write now. But thats just a pissing and moaning contest, and im not going to back it up, i simply dont care to, your just not worth it.

I am however very curious as to how/why you got that title. If it were up to me i would give you something like idk.. Verbose Vaejay.

I don't know why I feel like I am dealing with an entity throwing tantrums---an entity resisting all things sensible and helpful---an entity in complete turmoil over nothing. I don't know why I have that feeling.

Could you possibly show me what you wrote as a kid? I would love to read it, if it doesn't creep you out

Aren't you tired of attacking and resisting??? When will you start cooperating with Jacko. You know Jacko cares about you and wants to help you deal with this stage in our friendship and relationship. Our friendship is a process, dont you think so?

I am here saying the Lords prayer in the hope and beleif that the holy spirit will reveal in one's heart that I am here to be a friend. My prayers are meant to exorcise and release the tormented spirit inside that refuses to see the light. Halleluyah! It shall be done! Allah Akbar!!!

[audtatious]

There are so many variables such as (MY OWN QUOTE FROM THE SAME POST.) "The accurate technology to measure world temps, atmospheric gas levels, trade winds, ocean currents, among with a whole other plethora of variables that have only been measured well for the last ~50 years. "

Except some of the measurement gear is located on blacktop parking lots, on top of buildings, in cities (known to be up to 5-6 degrees warmer due to being a "concrete jungle"). As cities spread out you get more and more of this issue.

Tree rings and sediments have not shown any abnormal warming going back 1000 years, weather balloons have not shown any abnormal warming for 44 years and satellites have not shown any abnormal warming for the last 21 years of monitoring. The main data supporting Global Warming comes from Dr James Hansen and his method of determining warming using weather stations. As we now know, Hansen fudged numbers on multiple occasions and the stations themselves are not reliable as mentioned above. Since '88, when he brought up Global Warming to the Senate, there has been a push to prove it. It's very easy to determine a result when you have a target which you are looking for which, in this case, is MMGW.

To note, Hansens replacement says MMGW is BS. Hansen himself stated that methane gas is the main gas in which we are causing MMGW and NOT CO2.

Here is a good chart:

It should be noted that the high temp in 1998 was due to the El Niño during that time frame (and was back to normal in 1999). End result is no noticeable warming regardless of what the doom and gloomers say.

[liquid_cool]

you do make good points sir as far as a whay if ....but just looking at history gives this answer...go back to the age of the dinosour and it was on average 75 to 85 degrees in alaska!..the middle east was one giant tidepool and sandbar...what if we are actually in a cold spell? what if the temp that the dinosours flourished in was the rite one and we are in a mini ice age..we can do what ifs all day long..the point is..man cannot make this planets temp change even 1 degree if they wanted to at any give time...its a hoax.

[Armelius]

If they want to tax us then it has to be a scam.

[480sx]

^^ I lold

[Armelius]

First we should destroy what causes all these forest fires causing global warming. Trees look to be the biggest culprit. But if the earth was getting warmer we either have to chop them down faster or just leave them alone and let them take care of themselves. We won't need much firewood with a warmer climate anyways.