Transmission fluid flush for a 95 Q45 with 158k

[ahmed_wasim]

I have a 95 Q45 with 158k on it. I have had the transmittion fluid flushed every 30k miles by infiniti. The last flush was at 127k. I dropped my car at local infiniti dealer (in Canada) to do the flush and when I saw the receipt its only drain and refill. When I called them they say that in Canada they only do the drain and refill. I moved here from VA.Do you guys think drain and refill is good enough? or should I try to find some independent transmission shop to do the flush.Regards,Wasim.

[maxnix]

In a word, no.

Must have pan drop, inspection and wipe clean incuding plug, filter replacement, gasket and one time use bolt replacement along with mechanical exchange of fluid.

Go read the threads in Infiniti Online Mechanic Forum.

http://www.bgfindashop.com
Modified by maxnix at 8:05 PM 4/24/2006

[hal90000]

I was getting new tires this week at a shop I hadn't been to before. The specialize in Porsche and BMW. I asked the guy what type of transmission exchange equipment they had and he said that wasn't the way to do it. He said they always do a pan drop and filter change. I asked him how he got the fluid from the torque converter. He responded that some cars had a drain plug on the torque converter. I'd never heard of that but after some searching on the internet I do see people talk about it on some cars. I guess not Q45's. No one ever mentioned it here. Anyway, I think I'll stick with the dealer on the flush.

[DrewQ45]

I'm not going to flush anymore. I am simply draining and refilling a gallon of ATF from the transmission every other engine oil change and I won't be using synthetic. To me, this will be even better than a flush as the fluid will stay fresh. A G50 drains just a little over a full gallon bottle with the front passenger side jacked up.

Once in a blue moon I'll drop the pan and clean the magnet.

..Drew...

[maxnix]

I'm not going to flush anymore.

"Member's standards vary." - Q45tech

Draining and refilling just lets the gunk not in the pan stay in the torque converter and the rest of the transmission.

Result: New fluid with old gunk and old fluid. Not so great for longevity.

That's why most dealer's do it that way, to generate out of warranty replacements. When you are a hammer, all problems look like a nail.

Those who have read the previous posts know better.

[DrewQ45]

"Member's standards vary." - Q45tech

Draining and refilling just lets the gunk not in the pan stay in the torque converter and the rest of the transmission.

Result: New fluid with old gunk and old fluid. Not so great for longevity.

That's why most dealer's do it that way, to generate out of warranty replacements. When you are a hammer, all problems look like a nail.

Those who have read the previous posts know better.

I have read the previous posts... it's what lead me to this decision

Nothing wrong with flushing in my book but as you know, in the months leading up to your yearly or semi anual flushes, you are driving around with spent fluid that has lost much of it's viscosity. Draining and adding a gallon every few months means the fluid will always be fresh due to replenishment and the "old" fluid will be fresh in it's own right. Less chance for gunk to form. Fresh conventional is better than old Mobil 1 full syn any day of the week and it works out cheaper in the long run too. I'm not saying one should forgo the pan drop and filter change.

BTW, I've told you this before. My standards are quite high, somtimes it's the pockets that won't comply. Doesn't mean I wouldn't spend for a flush, but there is some logic to frequent drains.

...Drew...

[maxnix]

1.) I have read the previous posts... it's what lead me to this decision

2.) Nothing wrong with flushing in my book but as you know, in the months leading up to your yearly or semi anual flushes, you are driving around with spent fluid that has lost much of it's viscosity. Draining and adding a gallon every few months means the fluid will always be fresh due to replenishment and the "old" fluid will be fresh in it's own right.

1.) Really? Then you can link to the one Dennis says not to mechancially exchange the fluid? Didn't think so.

2.) This is just a dumb statement. If you are running synthetic with an ATF, it is degraded only to non-sythetic level of performance. Visually, when I do the exchange, it is extremely difficult to see any degradation. I, like Dennis, could probably go further between exchanges, but I want 173K like he got on his OEM transmission with almost no degradation in shift performance. You seem to forget about the old fluid and deposits a drain never removes in the nether reaches of the torque converter and transmission. A mechanical exchange will get 98% - 99% of these left overs that simple drain will not.

Sorry, but wishing it were so doesn't make it so. Draining and refilling alá dealer standard practice is a substitute, but it is not as complete as a mechanical flush by any stretch of wishful thinking.

[DrewQ45]

1.) Really? Then you can link to the one Dennis says not to mechancially exchange the fluid? Didn't think so.

No, but I can link to one where you say “Like oil, the best ATF is fresh ATF.” I’m not the only one on this forum who thinks frequent drains is a good idea.

zerothread?id=164093

Understand that my transmission was recently changed (late last year) and new transmission flushed twice during the procedure so I’m not starting off with old dirty fluid or clogged passages and even if I was, I’d still drain frequently.

2.) This is just a dumb statement. If you are running synthetic with an ATF, it is degraded only to non-sythetic level of performance. Visually, when I do the exchange, it is extremely difficult to see any degradation.

Your statement in #1 is what’s dumb. I highly appreciate the wide range of knowledge Dennis contributes to the forum but you seem to be verging on the edge of Q45Tech worship. If he said air was bad you’d probably die from asphyxiation… Get a grip man! Synthetic fluid does and can degrade to below the level of fresh conventional; it just takes longer to get there. BTW, what degradation are you hoping to see in the old fluid??? I heard that if you swirl a small amount around in a white china tea cup you can actually see pics of the Virgin.

3.) I, like Dennis, could probably go further between exchanges, but I want 173K like he got on his OEM transmission with almost no degradation in shift performance. You seem to forget about the old fluid and deposits a drain never removes in the nether reaches of the torque converter and transmission. A mechanical exchange will get 98% - 99% of these left overs that simple drain will not.

“Member standards vary”.... Maybe you should wish for more…I got 192K out of mine…

zerothread?id=128744

You seem to not understand that the fluid circulates and mixes (yes, even in the torque converter)... With changes in quick successions my fluid will never grow old unlike yours waiting for a flush.

Which would you rather, taking a crap every day or waiting till the end of the week for an enema?

..Drew..
Modified by DrewQ45 at 12:19 PM 4/25/2006

[Q45tech]

In ways ATF and antifreeze [and other oils] are similar in that they are 98% cooling fluids with at most 2% additives. When the PH+ of either changes they turn from protective to metals to corrosive to metals.

All oils use residual alkalinity test to define degradation, AF is easier you can measure the conductivity with a VOM thanks to high level of water.

When you dilute an acid it is still an acid, new additives in 3 quarts may not last very long neutralizing the existing acid.

A guess might be that a 3 quart exchange might last 1/3 as long as a full flush.

[Rex]

And as I understand it, Drew is/was doing these drain/re-fills in between regular flushes.

[DrewQ45]

And as I understand it, Drew is/was doing these drain/re-fills in between regular flushes.

transmission was replaced with JDM unit late last year and flushed twice.... a standard practice when installing used. I have a B&M cooler and also replaced the radiator. I was ecstatic when I realized that the new transmission had a drain plug.

I have now drained and refilled over two gallons of ATF in my past two engine oil changes. It makes perfect sense and is so easy to drain the transmission while the engine oil is draining. Prior to the drain, I test the "old" fluid on a white paper towel (ala Q45Tech)... nice bright red and crisp smell. See I'm starting with good fluid to begin with, however, even bad fluid is overcome by repeated draining and filling in one sitting. With the car on stands you can circulate the fluid by running through all the gears.

Go ahead, wait a year and flush... or replenish with new conventional fluid often... It's your choice. I prefer the latter with an occasional pan drop and filter change and magnet clean. Saves me quite a bit of $$$ too!

...Drew....

[elwesso]

I have to agree with Drew on this one..

Paying extra for "mechanical" flushes is just like hybrid cars.. You do it because it makes you feel good, not because it is really that much more effective. Coud you argue that it is more effective? Sure, but worth the extra money? Hell no!

Heres what I do and I think its 95% as effective as doing "mechanical flushes". but it costs about 1/3 of what a full flush costs!!!!! If you wanted to run a cleaner through, thats fine too!! BG makes a great QUICK CLEAN for AT's

I start by dropping the pan and cleaning it and inspecting the filter (which is really just a screen).. Some say to replace it, and I dont mind doing that... The screen is big enough that if any gets through that bad boy, you have serious problems and your trans is already toast...

Anyway, after the pan has been dropped and clean, put it back in and do my homebrew trans flush.... Drain pan, fill pan, run for 2 mins, drain.. This is EXACTLY WHAT A MECHANICAL FLUSH DOES, JUST ANOTHER WAY OF DOING IT! If you wont accept that its simply ignorance.. I admit this method may not work on really degraded ATF, but if your ATF is in good shape (still red) i dont have anything against it... REMEMBER ITS ALWAYS EASIER TO KEEP CLEAN THINGS CLEAN THAN IT IS TO CLEAN DIRTY THINGS!

IF you wanted, you could run the quick clean through for 15mins (just like the flush guys do) and you could then run maybe an extra few quarts through. no biggie.

I actually think that going through the cooler is an inferior method than doing mymethod... the cooler circuit only uses a small amount of fluid and it still gets mixed with the fluid in the pan... Its a wash at best. It certainly is pretty convenient, you just hook it up to the machine and it does its thing.

[DrewQ45]

While on the subject, may I add a word of caution for those with aftermarket coolers.

When replacing my transmission, I found that the plastic zip fasteners (should be 4 in all) had all broken except for 1, allowing the cooler to hang away from direct contact with the radiator. This greatly reduced the cooling capacity since the cooler, through direct contact, uses the wide area of the radiator to dissapate heat. As we all know, heat is the greatest enemy and I think if not for this, I might have seen better than 192K out my transmission. The zip ties can be purchased from any auto parts store and are usually more robust than the set that comes with the cooler. Somthing so simple can have a disastorous effect. Pull the plastic shield and shine a flashlight down there once in a while.... a habit I didn't practice.

...Drew...

[maxnix]

Your statement in #1 is what’s dumb. I highly appreciate the wide range of knowledge Dennis contributes to the forum but you seem to be verging on the edge of Q45Tech worship. If he said air was bad you’d probably die from asphyxiation… Get a grip man!

If you have better historical data, let's see it. Wishing doesn't make it so. I think it is your grasp that exceeds your (and I use the word loosely) intellectually limited reach.

REMEMBER ITS ALWAYS EASIER TO KEEP CLEAN THINGS CLEAN THAN IT IS TO CLEAN DIRTY THINGS!

Thank you. This is exactly the reason one flushes mechanically. Less worn fluid left behind. It's really simple. QED.

Do you really think BG, Sun, Wynn's produced their fluid exchange machines just because they had some spare parts lying around?

If you want to drain and fill only, fine. Just don't say it is as good as a mechanical excahnge without the data to support it. There are too many new people that read newbie's posts on this board and fail to read the previous posts, at their own peril. Even if ignorant or lazy, they should not be so easily mislead. To do so is obviously dishonest and inaccurate without substantiation.

[elwesso]

If you have better historical data, let's see it. Wishing doesn't make it so. I think it is your grasp that exceeds your (and I use the word loosely) intellectually limited reach.

Thank you. This is exactly the reason one flushes mechanically. Less worn fluid left behind. It's really simple. QED.

Do you really think BG, Sun, Wynn's produced their fluid exchange machines just because they had some spare parts lying around?

If you want to drain and fill only, fine. Just don't say it is as good as a mechanical excahnge without the data to support it. There are too many new people that read newbie's posts on this board and fail to read the previous posts, at their own peril. Even if ignorant or lazy, they should not be so easily mislead. To do so is obviously dishonest and inaccurate without substantiation.

I think personally that cost isnt justified vs effectiveness... If your fluid is clean and technically doesnt need changing when it comes to flush time, then it shouldnt matter. This is coming from a DIYer's perspective with plenty of time.

The bottom line is that the flush machines are for dealers... The tech can set the flush machine for however long it takes (like 10-15mins)... There is very little labor or time involved in this method, vs the drain/refill/run method I use...

From that perspective its more cost effective, and for the consumer that takes it to the dealer and wants it done in less than an hour, thats certainly fine... For ME who can waste an afternoon doing it the long way is fine, because I dont want to spend $100 to use their machine.....

Lets say that ATF costs $100 for all the fluid you need ..

Remember even TECH has said that a mechanical flush does not exchange 100% of the fluid... maybe only 95% (i think that thats the number he throws around?)... you cant get it all really because theres just so many places for the ATF to be... Lets say that my method gets it 90% (which i think thats fair). When i did my method, i went through the same 14 quarts of fluid that you are supposed to... That is, 14 quarts DRAIN and REFILLED, i probably had about 17-18 quarts total (because 14 quarts drained + 3-4 put in, i think i needed 3.5 to fill it up)

$100 + 2-3 hours of your time= $100 for 90% exchange$100 + $150 for use of dealer flush (but may take only 1 hour dealer time, plus you dont have to get dirty)- $250 for 95% exchange

*NOTE none of these figures including dropping the pan as thats assumed!

To the DIYer the former makes more sense IMO... But if you have time constraints hte other make smore sense... You can sit in the dealership in your armani suit on a wednesday afternoon on your lunch break sipping coffe, instead of having to get under the car.....

So I agree with you brian... YES it IS more effective, but is it worth that 5%, especially if your worst fluid in the trans is still decent enough (still red)... So that goes without saying, that its very likely that all of your fluid at the time of the flush is completely fine. I'm not trying to argue, and CERTAINLY to the novice Q45 owner you would want tod rop the pan and then have an exchange done on a machine, however to the learned members of this forum they can certainly do the other method and save some cash, but you gotta get to that point first...

My point is that flushing a trans vs my method is probably a wash at best.. it depends if you wanna spend the time... Which is ok...

PLEASE NOTE this does not apply to the simple drain and refill, if you dont drop the pan AND do my method, all bets are off. I dont agree with the drain and fill every so often (once every year), you need to do my method OR A mechanical flush every year, to GET ALL THE FLUID CHANGED at one time!

[DrewQ45]

If you have better historical data, let's see it. Wishing doesn't make it so. I think it is your grasp that exceeds your (and I use the word loosely) intellectually limited reach.

My intellect is such that I won't sit here and trade insults with someone who makes judgments on mine (and others here on a frequent basis). See if you can rise to that concept.

Thank you. This is exactly the reason one flushes mechanically. Less worn fluid left behind. It's really simple. QED.

Do you really think BG, Sun, Wynn's produced their fluid exchange machines just because they had some spare parts lying around?

I guess you are so engrossed by the pumping action of the BG machine that you don't realize it's also flushing your wallet. Less worn fluid left behind? How long did you drive around with that worn fluid prior to arriving for the flush…months? Remember, In between flushes you are doing nothing except waiting for your fluid to degrade.

BG, Sun etc produced their machines for financial gain. Not saying that they don’t serve a good purpose… They do…. for someone who is doing nothing in between flushes.

If you want to drain and fill only, fine. Just don't say it is as good as a mechanical excahnge without the data to support it. There are too many new people that read newbie's posts on this board and fail to read the previous posts, at their own peril. Even if ignorant or lazy, they should not be so easily mislead. To do so is obviously dishonest and inaccurate without substantiation.

'

Yeah… lets make Maxnix the official newbie advocate. A real champion for the people!

[ahmed_wasim]

Ok Guys,

I checked with other Infiniti dealers and none of them does the flush. So I have two options

1). Go to some transmission shop and have them do the flush. (please recommend if you know one in Toronto, Canada). Do transmission shop have the equipment to do the flush?

2. Drain the refill the fluid every 5k.

Which of the above sounds better.

Regards,Wasim.

[maxnix]

http://www.bgfindashop.com

Or look for a ASE certified shop withteh SUn machine from SnapOn.

Canadian delaers are notoriously retarded from what I have read.