Transmission Cooler

[Lokim]

So, I ordered the B&M transmission cooler and it should be here any day now. I was researching transmission cooler install info, and am a bit fuzzy on one thing. Should I plumb it in post-radiator, or as a standalone unit and just plug the radiator fittings off? I was thinking that the post-radiator would be good by increasing fluid volume, but by keeping transmission heat out of the radiator the motor may run a bit cooler and the transmission fluid would probably be cooler as well. Opinions?

[Q45tech]

Do the math calculations to decide correctly.
If all 10 quarts circulates in 3 minutes and 30 seconds.............how far is Mars?

We always place cooler in the space between condenser and rad. Best compromise for ATL/GA?South.

The miniscule AT heat generated [except when slipping TC] is not consequential for coolant system generally less than what the AC system transfers [30,000 BTU/hr] which is 2.5 HP/hr or 150 HP/minute.

All the ATF heat went into rad before so any external transfer is less efficient so less heat into coolant.
Heat exchanger efficiency is HIGHEST WHEN the temperature delta is widest [cool air vs hot liquid].

1.0 HP/hr = ~ 2544 + inefficiency btu/hr

[Lokim]

Maybe I wasn't clear. I know where to physically put the cooler itself, but should I eliminate the radiator circuit ang go from the transmission to the B&M and back, or transmission, radiator, B&M, transmission?

[Q45tech]

Depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
The main purpose of in rad cooler is to warm up ATF faster in winter so that overdrive is enabled [low temp lockout].

ATF only gets hot when TC slips [acceleration] like driving up a mountain in 4th gear or idling/driving slow in traffic in summer.

Since the Q is not designed to tow [silicone rear subframe and IRS] the normal purpose of external cooler is not utilized.

The driverside of rad is 10-15F cooler than input [assuming as built rad, foam surround, plastic fan blade and viscous drive] so the best the in rad cooler can do is 196-15 = 181F > 161F.

For the past 12 years [225k] I've just used the cooler disconnected from rad period but that is in SE US and it does take a little extra time on a cold 10F start in winter but then again I warm up car 10 minutes no matter what in winter.

[Infinitiguy19]

The Torque Converter see the highest temperatures and some go as far as to have a cooler for the Torque Converter. I am sure if two transmission coolers (Torque Converter and rest of A/T) along with a Magnefine filter or similar the transmission would go for much longer.

Per Wes's and NICO's recommendation I mounted the cooler between the radiator and the condenser. If you are crazy about it you can do what I plan to do some day (Hopefully soon); mount the cooler in the space where the Active Suspension cooler would go, Mount a temperature gauge in the sump or before the cooler (You can have three if your crazy: Sump, Before and after the cooler or even more.) and of course put a fan that runs only when the transmission oil goes higher than 176*F. And trust me unless you are in Alaska the fan will be on all the time.

I would mount a power steering cooler right behind the Transmission cooler as well. But the power steering fluid is so easy to change it might be pointless.

So to recap: If you are in a state that see's 0*F-100*F you are safe to just use the external transmission cooler and get rid of the one built into the radiator (Transmission fluid warmer).

Please search and read the service manual, please.

[Q451990]

Even more fun would be to install gate valves that would direct fluid through the radiator "cooler" in the winter, and through the external cooler in the summer. You could flip two gate valves in the spring and in the fall... All of that said, the B&M cooler claims to have a design that bypasses the cooler when the ATF is thick and cold and then lets it flow throug the cooler as it gets warmer. Sounds like BS to me, but I went with it. In SC it's over 100F here today, and we rarely see below 20F in the winter... and it's even more rare that I'm up early enough to experience it - I like to hibernate when it's cold :biggrin

[Infinitiguy19]

Maxnix used to say the same thing about the B&M transmission coolers but yet I was able to blow air on one end and feel it come out of the other end. So I find it hard to believe they would have a wax mechanism such as the one found on a Q45 (VH45DE) Throttle Body.

I might call B&M up one of these days and see if its true or not. Because I have o be more worried about the cold than the people in the South.

[oldmako]

Paul,
When I installed mine I eliminated the radiator circuit.

I have no idea if that was mostest properist, but it made the mostest senseist it me.

To Wit- Rad coolant is HOT (Normal operating temp) 99.9% of the time right??? So...how much cooling was that mother doing? I submit not one degree cooler than the coolant temp. So, to my feeble brain I think it maintained the trans fluids temp and only cooled it when it exceeded the engine coolant temp. Now, one could argue that the air flowing OUT of the rad and into the trans cooler is the same value and I cannot rebut that argeemint. Nor would I care to. I am very lazy and buy old used cars for a reason.

BUT...I drive my car on relatively flat interstate 90% of the time with only my corpulent and hail damaged and flabby behind, a suitcase, a set of goff clubs, and a spliff or two in the car. No big hills, no trailer. No spent uranium capsules, A10 ammo, extree batteries, birdshot, nuke fuel rods, fat chicks, anvils, or any other item with a high specific gravity. So theoretically, my trans temp OUGHT not get that hot. The mostest heinous thing I do to my transmotion is when I get stuck in bumper to bumper on a warm day.

So I just jammed the cooler in betweenum and forgot about it. That was 60,000 miles ago at 110K.

I also put in super jizz at the same time (M1 and Redline). The fluid is still nice and pink. I will repink in the near future. ("Nice" and "pink" tend to go nicely together don't you think???)

IF I were to do it again, I would put in a larger unit. I would self apply the biggest one that would fit in the interstice without overly heinous wrenching and modification.

In winter, I USUALLY let it idle for a few minutes at cold start up and then drive very gently (minimal throttle and no more than 2000 rpm) until the temp needle comes up to approx one third throw. This is when the car shifts into final gear. After that I limit my throttle application to the point where it bottoms out on the carpet and I try to keep the speed below about 110-120. That is of course unless I really have a need to get somewhere.

Beefeater Gibson up with a Romeo y Juliette 1875 Exhibition Number 3. Y'all be coo.

[Q45tech]

Pink is scarey, as that is desaturated by excess heat. The red dye is temperature sensitive for exactly that purpose.

A side by side drop off dip stick and a brand new reference drop always tell the tale.

AT runs a narrow edge between hot enough to evaporate condensed overnight moisture ingress from top vent and too hot degradation of physical parameters 176F > to less than 212F.

[Lokim]

I think I'll just plumb it in as follows:

Transmission line to inline filter, filter to B&M, B&M to transmission. I'll just leave the factory radiator lines out of it. If the transmission doesn't like it, I'll plumb it back in to the radiator prior to the B&M, but post-filter.

Sound good?

[Q45tech]

The ONLY way to know is by installing an accurate digital thermometer into the return line or transmission sump to read the ATF under various conditions.

http://www.carspace.com/carzzz/Albums/t ... /photo.jpg

[Q451990]

I think I'll just plumb it in as follows:

Transmission line to inline filter, filter to B&M, B&M to transmission. I'll just leave the factory radiator lines out of it. If the transmission doesn't like it, I'll plumb it back in to the radiator prior to the B&M, but post-filter.

Sound good?

Sounds good to me... essentially my setup, except without the inline filter.

Heath

[Q451990]

Here's my gate valve for cold climates... I think it adds too much complexity for my area, but maybe it's worth it up north?



Heath

[Skibane]

Maybe I wasn't clear. I know where to physically put the cooler itself, but should I eliminate the radiator circuit ang go from the transmission to the B&M and back, or transmission, radiator, B&M, transmission?

Connecting the original and new coolers in parallel reduces backpressure significantly.

[Lokim]

Maybe I wasn't clear. I know where to physically put the cooler itself, but should I eliminate the radiator circuit ang go from the transmission to the B&M and back, or transmission, radiator, B&M, transmission?

Connecting the original and new coolers in parallel reduces backpressure significantly.

Wouldn't that kinda defeat the purpose of installing a cooler? Sure, the cooling may be marginally better than stock in parallel, but the reason for installing a cooler is for a substantial decrease in fluid temp. Half the fluid being warmed by the coolant, and the other half cooled? I don't know...

[Skibane]

Wouldn't that kinda defeat the purpose of installing a cooler? Sure, the cooling may be marginally better than stock in parallel, but the reason for installing a cooler is for a substantial decrease in fluid temp. Half the fluid being warmed by the coolant, and the other half cooled? I don't know...

It's not half the fluid.

The aftermarket cooler is less restrictive than the original, in-tank cooler - which means that more of the ATF flows through the aftermarket cooler than through the tank. And, the portion that still flows through the tank is cooled down to roughly the same temperature as the engine coolant.

Aside from reducing backpressure, leaving the original cooler in the circuit helps prevent ATF overcooling in frigid weather, since the temperature of some of the ATF is regulated by the engine coolant temperature.

[Lokim]

Well, I installed the cooler today. I actually put it in front of the A/C condenser, in the bottom of the bumper. The transmission is shifting way better! Contrary to what I originally believed, the OEM in-line filter was still there, and I think it was plugged up. I plumbed in the B&M solo with my aftermarket magnetic/paper in-line filter and capped the original lines, and the shifting is much smoother and more intuitive. I guess we'll have to see how it does in winter...

[Q45tech]

Most people complain about AC performance as it degrades [year by year].

Not sure I would want to add air into condenser hotter than the design max.

176F ATF should increase 120F [stuck in traffic air] by at least 25F [correct for cooler vs condenser area say 20% ] so that would raise condenser input air by at least 5F............probably increase inside cabin temp by 1-2F.

Just guessing but I'll bet I'm close. Very little margin from brand new as components age since only a 4 year 60k warranty on auxillaries.

[Lokim]

I actually have the cooler mounted forward of the condenser. It's bolted on the underside of the fiberglass bumper backing and the bottom of it is just above the lower bumper intake support. I don't use the A/C much anyway...

[OwnerCS]

Very interesting thread here for sure. It looks like I should consider installing an ATF cooler as part of the timing chain upgrade. Also, it is good to see the approaches utilized by other members that live in similar climates with average annual temperatures in the 61F range.