transmission flush + other fluids too

[ImStillaYankee]

Hi all, I know this has been covered several times in this forum but my 2006 M35 Sport is now in for a transmission repair due to a lurching feeling while driving (at least the dealer told me it was a major transmission repair). I won't swear to it but I believe the dealer said it was the throttle body even though they told me the transmission needs to be dropped and something inside needed replacement. They jerking my chain on this? I bought my car in '08 with 12k miles on it and it now has 51k--all highway miles, don't recall ever sitting in traffic and I'm retired so I don't commute. Just bring my kids back and forth to baseball 10 miles away and more. I live north of Tampa, not much traffic when I'm on the roads and most speeds are around 50mph. Anyway, they're trying to convince me to flush the transmission, they say my power steering should be flushed and filled, differential flushed and filled and even the brake fluid is contaminated and dirty and should be flushed and filled even though I just had a brake job 2 months ago and repair shop (not dealer) said fluid was fine and it looks pretty good to my untrained eye. I just tried this dealer cause I was fed up with Tampa Infiniti not fixing things I complained about. Now I wonder which dealer is worse?! I'm driving to NY next Wednesday for son's baseball and college so it can't be put off, and they've now had my car since last Friday and I'm getting nervous. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[merlinq2]

Flush and fill of all fluids should be done at least every 24 months in your case, less if you have higher miles driven per year.

There is a software update that helps with the shift points in the transmission logic and control- this is something I would ask them to do before the drop the transmission and replace anything.

I did have some issues like this(erratic shift seemed less smooth), reflashed the software and most of the harshness was take care of.

Brake fluid may look fine but like all things it breaks down over the many cycles of the brake system.

The transmission in the M comes from the Nissan truck line- they are built very tough to deal with awd, towing, so I would not rely on this. I would suggest that you take the car to a nissan dealer for a second opinion, the guts of the M are nissan and those techs at nissan can service them.

Must haves, flush diff fluids, drain and fill transmission, brake fluid can wait, power steering same as brake fluid.

Get the car back and try nissan

[MaxBolus]

I'm guessing they said it is the valve body, not throttle body. The valve body lives inside the transmission and a bad one can cause the issues you're having.

You can try the transmission flush/fill, but it's difficult to say whether that would help. My take is that it would be worth the try, if it doesn't help then you're only out the cost of the fluid change (which is likely not cheap at the dealer 8-[ ). Unfortunately you have a road trip coming up, it would be good to have some time to see if the fluid change helps..and to make sure it doesn't make things worse.

Beyond that, sounds like the dealer wants you to spring for a Fluids Festival... PS and brake flush/fill? Sounds like big time upsell to me.

Sorry, these transmission issues are usually difficult to resolve cheaply, in my experience anyway.

[finikM35]

If its the minor jerks when downshifting then you might just need ECU flash. Lots of us had that. This transmission is VERY durable. Sounds like dealer trying to do too much this time.

[ImStillaYankee]

Thanks for the replies. I wasn't looking to not have the repair done by hoping a flush/fill would solve the problem. My Infiniti Extended Warranty will pay for it (and yes, Max you are correct, it is the valve body--that's what I get for posting at 1:30am after a day of baseball!). I'm just looking to get some opinions from the experts as to whether any of the flush/fill tuff was necessary as I don't see it in the recommended maintenance schedule. Thing about the brake flush is that I'm sure if it was needed, the private shop I had do the brake job recently would have loved to make an extra buck. In fact, they specifically told me they checked it and it wasn't needed. Plus, most people never really grasp how little I actually drive. I do avg about 7k/ year which may be less than avg but it is all, and I do mean all highway. When I lived in NY I used to put about 3-4k/year on my Q45a.
Anyway, thanks again.

[Larz]

If you bought your acr in 08 and have no documentation that the the gear box and differential fluid has ever been changed, it's been possibly as much as 6 years with the same fluid and that's too long. I agree that every 2 years is a good time to change them as you don't rack up up mad mileage. As for the brakes, I dip my laytex gloved finger in the tub and look at it - if it's black, and doesn't feel very slick - change it. It will never stay new-looking, but it should retain at least a hint of colour, and it should never be black and should never have tiny particles in it. If you get it done whilst brakes are being serviced, it's about $100 extra for labor and new fluid.
These fluid changes are not mad expensive, but they aren't cheap either. Look at it this way - Infiniti charges about $250 for a proper transmission flush and refill. A new transmisison, or any repair to the transmission could well be 10x that. Infiniti charges about $100 to do the rear diff on a RWD sedan - also much cheaper than repairs would be at $140/hr labor + cost of parts.
Since you don't drive lots of miles, I'd go by time frame and not mileage intervals for all maintanence.
Nobody says you have to do it all NOW. You can do them one each month but since your car is getting on in age, fluid changes are the best and cheapest way to keep it running good for many more years.

[ImStillaYankee]

Great advice, thanks! Decided not to have that particular dealer do those fluid changes since must trust in them is low. May have it done by my old dealer in NY while I'm up there, never steered me wrong and never tried to rip me off.

[finikM35]

Which dealer is that i live right next to dealership but i hate it

[ImStillaYankee]

Well, I moved 8 years ago but I was always treated well at Able Infiniti when they were on Merrick Rd.. When they moved closer to Island Park I became just another customer instead of feeling like I was a member of the family (of which I had already bought 3 from including my beloved Q45a). Don't know if they're still at that location.
Forgot to mention in my original post that my M has suddenly started using 1 quart or more of oil every 1,000 miles or less. They claim this is normal but it's the first car since my 73 Chevelle that I've had to add a quart or more in between oil changes. They are doing a use test but I have the feeling they're only doing it to humor me but they'll see I know my car.

[myother45isalesbaer]

I'm sorry to hear this. I am a Yankee too, who moved to FL and back to CT. I have heard of but never have done a brake fluid or power steering flush on my 2004 M45 since I bought it. In my opinion these are just scams to get you to pay more money. There are many other things besides a throttle body that can cause lurching. I am no transmission expert, but generally if they are low on fluid they will start to slip into gear. The engine will rev up, build up the right pressure in the trans and then it lurches to get to the next gear. I have had this happen on other cars all due to low transmission fluid levels. I hate to say this, but a lot of dealers try to suck your wallet dry. With a car such as yours, newer, low mileage, your dealer solution does just not seem right.

I hope you get it fixed for your trip. I would seek out a reliable dealer of mechanic. Just my OP on your post. Just as a side note: Dealers try to get you to think these are mysterious machines, when in fact there is not a lot new in them we haven't seen before except computers. The basics still apply.

[ImStillaYankee]

Yeah, I've talked to a couple of race car mechanics around here the last 2 days and some people in auto school. They pretty much say it's a scam to make $$ for a street car, especially one with low miles that isn't driven daily.
I also forgot to mention they were going to try to hit me up for a $125 per item diagnostic fee, even after they repaired 3 of the 5 things I complained about. Is this just a new Florida thing or is it something new around the country? Poor CS, especially for Infiniti. Reminds me of the old VCR days when repair shops would try to charge a $25-$45 diagnostic fee. That faded away with competition from those who advertised they didn't charge a fee. Nissan will drop this as soon as they start hearing from 20+ year customers that we will be getting our next vehicles elsewhere.

[Larz]

That fee may very well be a new gimmick with many dealerships in Florida. My Infiniti guy has never charged me to 'look into' things but I have a dear friend who has a Mustang that just went off warranty about 2 months ago. Her cruise control stopped working and she was sure it was a bad switch. Her dealer charged her $99 to run a diagnostic check on the electronics and turns out it was a computer part, not the switch. The part cost her an additional $400 installed. Only after she complained and demanded to see the service manager and the general manager, did they decide 'make an exception' and subtract the $99 from her repair bill.
I'm no mechanic, but I'm assuming this diagnostic 'check' probably involved plugging her car into a reader and maybe took 10 minutes to find the cause. If that's correct, $99 is very harsh. This was just a FORD!

[ImStillaYankee]

Yeah, I think I'm going to start another thread on this 'diagnostic fee' thing to see if it's happening in other states and try and nip it in the bud.

[myother45isalesbaer]

Yeah, I think I'm going to start another thread on this 'diagnostic fee' thing to see if it's happening in other states and try and nip it in the bud.

I wouldn't say its a FL thing. It goes on country wide. When they see a so-called "sucker" coming into their repair shops they will charge away. They figure you know nothing and they can get away with it. You are smart to consult some real car guys that will tell you the truth. Many years ago I looked at a lady friends bill for service. It actually said and I quote, removed old carbon build up and put new carbon in. She didn't know any better and paid for that service. The scam artists are out there just looking for the next sucker.

Hope you get yours in fine working order, good luck on your trip too.

[ImStillaYankee]

It's astounding that this is what passes for customer service in the auto industry today. What a shame. I started with Infiniti ages ago with a G20, then an I30, followed by my forever favorite the Q45a. I love my M35 (couldn't wait to get it back from dealer) but this will certainly be my last Infiniti. Toyota sales and service is even worse around here so here's hoping my M will last until I hit the next 1/2 billion $$ Lotto!
Bringing son to NY for baseball, hope he does well as several of the tri-state areas top colleges are interested.

[MaxBolus]

Yeah, I think I'm going to start another thread on this 'diagnostic fee' thing to see if it's happening in other states and try and nip it in the bud.

They hit me with this when I first went to the local dealer after moving from Pittsburgh. The service mgr made me sign a paper acknowledging the fee if I decided not to have the work done, saying "you'd be surprised how many people decide not to do the work". My comment to him was along the line of "if this is a thing, it tells me you charge too much for service." And of course, they quoted a ridiculous amount to fix relatively minor problem. (I ranted about this in another thread a couple years back.)
My old dealer in Pittsburgh (Cochran Infiniti) never charged me a dime for diags.

[myother45isalesbaer]

It's astounding that this is what passes for customer service in the auto industry today. What a shame. I started with Infiniti ages ago with a G20, then an I30, followed by my forever favorite the Q45a. I love my M35 (couldn't wait to get it back from dealer) but this will certainly be my last Infiniti. Toyota sales and service is even worse around here so here's hoping my M will last until I hit the next 1/2 billion $$ Lotto!
Bringing son to NY for baseball, hope he does well as several of the tri-state areas top colleges are interested.

It is astounding, disgusting and a few other words I best not use on this site. I have seen this time and time again. It's going to be my last Infiniti too. I am just fed up with the sales BS and lousy service. I am thinking of buying an older classic car without all the techno nonsense on it. At least they don't need to plug it into a computer to tell me what my computer is doing and charge me some stupid fees for a "diagnosis".

Best of luck to your son.

[ImStillaYankee]

Sounds like a good idea, going with a classic car. Might have to look into that as the years go by.
Thanks for the well wishes for my kid. He's got talent, isn't bothered by a crowd or competition, just hope the schools he wants to go to need or want a tall right-handed pitcher for the 2015 season.

[The00Dustin]

The dealership I have always used (in IN) charges a diagnostic fee as well. I think most dealerships do. However, in my case, they don't charge the fee if the issue is determined to be covered under warranty, and the fee counts towards the repair if you elect to perform it. That sounds normal, and you should know hourly (and part) rates are ridiculous going in. I've never seen it as a problem, but then I didn't go to the dealer anymore once the car was out of warranty, so I've never actually paid one. Also, while I don't think it's their policy, when I have paid for work that wasn't warranty work, they billed me actual hours when that was less than book hours, so I ended up paying less than I expected even though I was still paying way too much.

[ImStillaYankee]

As customers, we can't allow these 'diagnostic fees' to become commonplace around the country. We need to complain to Nissan, Infiniti and our local congress people. Many people I've spoken with locally don't have a problem with it until I explain to them that the dealer no longer has any incentive whatsoever to do any repairs on your car. Why should they when they can get $90-125 per item for doing absolutely nothing as was my case on 2 separate trips to 2 different dealers. The response may be that they need to charge this fee because the customer can find out what's wrong with it for free and bring it someplace else for repair. What a bunch of bs. Well, how many people actually do that? It's difficult to impossible because where are you going to bring it? There are few, if any, local mechanics anymore. You going to bring your $40,000 investment to Jiffy Lube,Tire Kingdom, or Goodyear for any kind of serious repair? I don't even trust them to change my oil any more as I've had too many side issues. If the dealers would stop ripping their customers off for everything, they might find more loyalty. Such as insisting my 06 M with 50k miles on it needed the transmission fluid flushed and filled to the tune of $350. When I squawked and asked about just draining and refilling they said that was $250. This, after they repaired the valve body under my Infiniti Extended Warranty ($0 deductible) and said the warranty only covers the 4 quarts of oil the valve body holds. What?

[myother45isalesbaer]

Just my OP. This whole issue started when the 10K tune ups became obsolete. Not a bad thing, but how else are the mechanics/dealers supposed to make any money. I am not defending them, but if you think about it, spark plug changes, oil changes, greasing, points and condenser changes, carb adjustments are all things of the past. Now it has become computers checking on computers. Most people think computers are a big mystery. In fact that have improved automotive performance tremendously. The down side is when one starts to malfunction, the average owner can't do any work on his car anymore as we did in the past. I can't and I was a computer systems expert before I retired. The one thing I know is they are not mystery boxes. They work on binary code and do one thing at a time but very fast. Unfortunately when they start to fail, you need to have a techno wizard to get them back up and running right. In today's world many of us are being taken advantage of because they think we don't know what the little "black" boxes are doing. If I could buy the programs, which are not for sale, I could load them on my laptop and do my own diagnoise. But that is not the way of the automotive world today, so we all pay mucho bucks to have some geek with a laptop tell us whats wrong and charge us out the ying-yang to do so. Just my OP!

[Double E]

I'm not defending the practice either but we do have to agree that time is money and these shops still have overhead, training to provide, equipment to maintain and front office employees to pay in addition to the wrench-turners. When my car goes in for a problem I have not determined a fix for, I expect to pay for time spent to diagnose it. How much is a variable, but I do expect to pay.

In short, if they diagnose it correctly and then fix it, I'm on the hook for both.

Now, that being said, there's a practice my dealer (Jeep dealer too) uses whereby the diagnostic fee I pay is applied towards the cost of the repair when I also have them do the work. I applaud that practice and encourage everyone to request it.

Above, I specified that "I have not determined a fix for" and that means that when I go in for service, I normally already know what I want them to do and I do not want diagnostics performed (such as a trans fluid & filter change, a brake fluid flush & fill or a rear diff fluid change). If I don't know the reason for an issues like hesitation, stalling or a grinding that I have not been able to figure out, then I pay for diagnostics that I was unable to perform.

If their diagnostic effort was wrong, I don't expect to pay another fee for the right one. I paid for the right one the first time.

[myother45isalesbaer]

Double E,

I agree. If they do the diagnose correctly and take it off the bill when the work is done correctly that's fair in my book. When they keep adding charges for repairs that are not needed to fix a specific problem, that's what annoys me. I am not talking about the honest guys that are out there. Its the dishonest ones that have been around almost since Benz came out with the truly practical car that ran on vegetable oil. That's the bottom line of what I was trying to say. You and I have agreed on many issues. Your well written post has made my point clearer. Thanks.

[Larz]

Stand me behind DoubleE and myother! You both hit it spot on! What I posted about my friend's Ford dealership is NOT the way to care for customers and keep them buying your brand in the future. I an happy to pay a diagnostic fee so long as that fee is applied to the repair.
Myother also makes a great point. On shows like Mecum Auction, I see under the hood of older sports cars and all you see is a large engine and hoses from the radiator - everything is in view and looks straight forward. Today you open your hood and it looks like the guts of the space shuttle covered with bay doors to help it 'look' even more complicated - very mysterious and intimidating to those of us who may not be familiar with mechanics (I include myself in that bit).
Further, even simple projects like changing a headlamp bulb have become a major, multiple step project that used to take 2 minutes. I own a 1968 Cadillac and changing the headlamp means unscrewing the chrome surround and un-pluging the old to plug in the new. On my M, I need to jack up the car, remove the wheels, take apart the wheel wells, remove little plastic doors, deal with little spring mechanisms, etc. Who has time for that?? More and more of the DIY stuff has been designed from the start to be so difficult and time consuming that most owners will toss the shop rag to the ground and go to the dealership.
I agree that dealerships need to make profits - my business needs to make a profit too, lest I couldn't afford cars and the like. I am happy to pay for repairs, maintenance, etc. What I am not happy about is what seems like a deliberate effort on the part of car makers to design things in a way that limits who can work on their cars (local mechanic shops can't afford to stock specialty tools and gizmos for each brand of car), and their efforts to make DIY projects a thing of the past, leaving owners to choose between the dealership Vs places like Pep Bpoys, Jiffy Lube, and other equally dangerous shops.

[myother45isalesbaer]

Another voice of reason. Thanks.