transmission doesn't want to shift qhwn car is cold - 1990 Q45

[gniknave]

This has been going on for about a week now. I have the Level 10 transmission with the 1st gear start TCU...

I changed the transmission fluid myself late last year, and then for reassurance, I did it again - AT THE DEALER - last month. Now check this out though...

When I did this myself, I didn't drop the pan and change the filter. This is why I took it to the dealer. So, when I took it to the dealer, they give me the estimate for changing everything - fluid, filter and all, and then pull the car in and send me on my way.

The next day when I pick up the car, I find out they just did a drain and fill. Reason why is because they say the technicians don't recommend doing a complete flush and change of filter on a car with the mileage I have (165k). Now, I told them before that this is NOT the original transmission, and that it in fact is a performance rebuild that isn't very old. I guess they just totally ignored that however.

Would it be safe to say that it's absolute BS that they shouldn't flush the transmission or even change the filter... then turn around and charge me $179 for it!!??? When I did the EXACT same thing a few months earlier for $40 and my own time??? I used to work for this dealer too!

Anyway to the point...

If I start my car, pull out of the garage, and drive off, my car won't shift at all (when cold - fist drive of the day). Then gradually it'll shift into second (after a loooong 1st gear run). Once the car is at 'normal' temp it almost immediately goes back to shifting as if nothing ever happened.

Also, if it's the first drive of the day, if I sit and let the car warm up until the temperature gauge starts to creep up, then drive off, it shifts fine. If I let it warm up ALL the way before driving (which I usually do), then it shifts fine.

So, it's only when I have to make an immediate drive from my garage to the road that it doesn't shift.. and then once warmed up it shifts perfectly.

I know it's said that it's best to let the car warm up before driving off, but I had a situation where my Mom was stranded (flat tire) and I had to make an immediate drive....

I do have a B&M transmission cooler too btw...

I'd find it hard to believe that the transmission cold be going bad. I mean, yes I can be quite hard on it from time to time, but I also make absolute sure to keep up on it's maintenance.

Any suggestions on what this problem could be? Should I be forceing the dealer to do the pan drop and filter change (I mean why the hell would they suggest to NOT change a filter anyway!!!???) ?

Does this sound like a TPS related problem?

[elwesso]

SO is there a delay from N-1? Or is just 1-2? What fluid are you running?

[squeefoo]

Mine did that before I put in the turbine sensor. It started as you describe, I checked the TCU: No code... then suddenly it showed "TRANSMISSION MALFUNCTION" checked TCU codes again and it said turbine sensor. Works great now.

[maxnix]

Operating problems when car is not warmed to operating temperature are to be expected, especially if OEM heat exchanger is by passed.

Cold behavior diagnosis is alsmost useless because the car is not meant to be operated that way.
Modified by maxnix at 9:40 AM 3/13/2006

[elwesso]

Operating problems when car is not warmed to operating temperature are to be expected, expecially if OEM heat exchanger is by passed.

Cold behavior diagnosis is alsmost useless because the car is not meant to be operated that way.

I disagree... There should NEVER be issues with trans shifting when the car is cold......!!!!! Sometimes if a problem occurs when its cold its a sign that something is coming.....

[qship96]

absolutely rediculous to even THINK the average buyer of a modern luxury car{or any car} would start car and idle until temp is "normal" before driving off.the nissan factory owners manual does not even SUGGEST this procedure............

[Q45tech]

The word COLD is relative! Members must post temperature of ATF or overnight parameters. The oem design is for a 60F startup. It will function at 0F but not well until the ATF starts flowing as designed. Why the mandantory 5 minute warm up when it's cold.

The ATF fluid temp sensor tells TCU what pressure to apply to clutches obviously thicker [colder] ATF than 174F will apply less extra pressure before, during, after a shift.

Q45 warm up time [before you put it in gear] is all about trade offs in engine transmission life vs gasoline use and owner convience.transmission mods often come with added warm up time due to internal changes: seals clutch material friction vs temperature, etc. Extending hot performance usually affects cold performance eventually.

Did the modded transmission last 12months/12 k? What is your complaint?

[gniknave]

I'm using the fluid the dealer uses (Nissan Matic D?) since they were the last to touch the fluid....

Nine times out of 10 I'll let my car warm up to 100% normal operating temperature. One of the rare times was the situation I had yesterday where I had to leave in a hurry. My usual warm up time is about 6 minutes on average.

I haven't been driving the car very much for the past month due to not having a full time job anymore. In fact, I drive the car now less than I ever have... Now it's usually 1 mile a day if that. In comparison to 40 miles per day.

When I was working every day, I would let the car warm up for a couple of minutes, then drive off. Never had a problem at all.

I park in a garage 100% of the time so usually when I drive out (and I do check the ambient temperature when leaving the garage), it's usually right at or above 60 degrees.

I know the transmission has been in the car well over 12 months and 12,000 miles... probably double that. But I also know the transmission has been well cared for.

I did a search after reading about what Squee was talking about - Turbine Sensor... It then came to me that when I was under the car last week, there was a loose connector for "something" (didn't know what it was for) on the side of the transmission. After seeing pictures, I see that the connector was for the Turbine Sensor.

I did reconnect it to be tight, and it's a little weird that I noticed problems after that. However I'd find it hard to believe that a loose connector would cause problems when cold, but not when warm...

What exactly are the symtoms (not found in search) of a bad turbine sensor?

[Jesda]

Operating problems at cold temperatures are NOT to be expected. I expect the car to shift when I start it up and put it in D, even if its freezing outside. If that much can't be expected of a $55,000 luxury car, then I'd rather have a Corolla.

[rsiwicki]

try changing out the fluid using a BG flush or similiar. I did a transmission flush from redline synthetic to regular transmission fluid and the car shifts totally different now....like night versus day so maybe that is 50% of the problem and 50% is something else going on.

[Jesda]

^^Do you mean different in a good way?

[Q45tech]

I have the Level 10 transmission with the 1st gear start TCU...

This is the thread topic not a oem rebuild transmission or TCU..........Level 10 does things to create a racing transmission these change the normality of the cold process.

[squeefoo]

I did a search after reading about what Squee was talking about - Turbine Sensor... It then came to me that when I was under the car last week, there was a loose connector for "something" (didn't know what it was for) on the side of the transmission. After seeing pictures, I see that the connector was for the Turbine Sensor.

What exactly are the symtoms (not found in search) of a bad turbine sensor?

Just to stay on topic.... How were the pins (male/female)in the loose connector? Could have junk or corrosion... especially if the little gasket is gone.

Mine stayed in first gear longer ('93 TCU) than normal when "cold" and then upshifted hard into second, it was also very sluggish/slipping in reverse (like the reverse band was loose). The "transmission malfunction" prompt only stayed on for about 30 seconds or so just after starting, then stayed off. Other than the cold issues worked fine when hot.

I think it only acts as a slippage sensor.

This was awhile ago -so I'm not sure if the '93 TCU was in yet or not, don't think it would make a big diff.

[Jesda]

I have the Level 10 transmission with the 1st gear start TCU...

This is the thread topic not a oem rebuild transmission or TCU..........Level 10 does things to create a racing transmission these change the normality of the cold process.

Did the modded transmission last 12months/12 k? What is your complaint?"

Asinine. The common expectation of a Level 10 transmission is longer life than OEM.

"Hey, you modded your car! You might as well set it on fire and dump it in the ocean!"

[qship96]

guess I wont be looking to get a level ten transmission when mine goes,with Wes`s issues,and now this one,combined with q45techs comments,I will stick with OEM when the time comes! thanks for the insight...........

[maxnix]

I disagree... There should NEVER be issues with trans shifting when the car is cold......!!!!! Sometimes if a problem occurs when its cold its a sign that something is coming.....

Well, that'a all well and fine, but ATF below 140° F is not at operating temperature. I am betting Nissan engineered for 176° F ATF operating temperature.

[maxnix]

Operating problems at cold temperatures are NOT to be expected. I expect the car to shift when I start it up and put it in D, even if its freezing outside. If that much can't be expected of a $55,000 luxury car, then I'd rather have a Corolla.

You should indeed have a Corolla with that ignorant attitude.

Two words for you:

Operating Temperature.

I believe you will find it referenced in the owner's manual.

[elwesso]

guess I wont be looking to get a level ten transmission when mine goes,with Wes`s issues,and now this one,combined with q45techs comments,I will stick with OEM when the time comes! thanks for the insight...........

Just FYI, my issues are electrical, not with the transmission, so what happens would happen with any trans that was in the car...

My level 10, Robs level 10, and Evan's level 10 transmissions have all acted normally, except with these electrical issues.....

People sure like to put a bad name on things when they dont really know whats causing them......!

[Jesda]

You should indeed have a Corolla with that ignorant attitude.Two words for you:Operating Temperature.I believe you will find it referenced in the owner's manual.

You sound like you work for a Volkswagen dealer.

"It aint broke, its just cold out! Come back when the warranty expires!"

A major drivetrain failure like NOT SHIFTING when started in a 60F environment is inexcusable. I thought you were meticulous about your cars?

[Q45tech]

Common expectation of longer life? I thought Level 10 was a performance upgrade to handle more power of modded 300zxTT under drag racing conditions...........the design adapted for use on a Q45. At least that what they told me 5 years ago when I visited them.

Oem remans are now getting 180,000 miles plus.

To my knowledge we have never replaced a oem reman we have installed in the past 7 years [with an auxillary heat exchanger].

Plug up the Consult in AT diagnostic mode and read the COLD parameters.

[qship96]

Just FYI, my issues are electrical, not with the transmission, so what happens would happen with any trans that was in the car...

My level 10, Robs level 10, and Evan's level 10 transmissions have all acted normally, except with these electrical issues.....

People sure like to put a bad name on things when they dont really know whats causing them......!

funny,, the posts I have read all are transmission related,and common thread is the level ten unit-read q45 techs posts again............oem reman is much more reliable in 99% of unmolested q`s

[elwesso]

The transmission is fine, but the electronics that control the trans are screwed up, it has nothing to do with the transmission rebuild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like squeefoo said, same thing happened on his Q... ITS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH THE REBUILT TRANSMISSION!

[sijoko]

If you have bypassed the factory radiator cooler like I have, then I would suggest that you run Mobil 1 or Redline synthetic transmission fluid.

I would also drop the pan and change out the filter. Sometimes, you will find stuff in there that can restrict flow.

Also make absolutely sure that the fluid level is correct.

If none of these things work, then you will have to follow the trouble shooting procedures in the service manual.

I have about 110k on the Level Ten. I drive my car hard and it has held up pretty good. It is starting to get noisey now and the 2-3 shift sometimes acts up. This seems to be a common problem with the RE4R03A.

I am curious if IPT (Import Performance Transmissions) can do a better job.

I am waiting for the new GM 6L80E to start showing up on eBay. That trans would be perfect for the Q.

[Jesda]

Common expectation of longer life?

"...well controlled shifts that maximize driveability and minimize heat build-up and wear in the transmission and wear-and-tear on the vehicle."

http://www.levelten.com/products.htm

[elwesso]

I have about 110k on the Level Ten. I drive my car hard and it has held up pretty good. It is starting to get noisey now and the 2-3 shift sometimes acts up. This seems to be a common problem with the RE4R03A.

I am curious if IPT (Import Performance Transmissions) can do a better job.

I am waiting for the new GM 6L80E to start showing up on eBay. That trans would be perfect for the Q.

So is it the 2-3 shift thats starting to get iffy? how and when is it making noise?

It seems as if IPT does a better rebuild than level ten, IMO.

[rsiwicki]

I have no problems with my Level10 either and I drive my car hard and it has about 25,000 miles on it now. It was switching from Redline Synthetic to regular transmission fluid. The shift response and feel is a lot more slower than with synthetic. It still shifts nice and fast, but not like it did with the synthetic stuff I had in there. For optiminal performance, I need to switch back to synthetic as I need every last 0.1 secs I can eliminate in the 1/4 mile. It does not make sense to have a built up transmission yet skimp on the good transmission fluid. I had a transmission line bust and so instead of waiting a week for the one shop that does carry the good stuff in the whole damn Miami area to get it ordered, I went with a BG flush and regular fluid which the car drives perfectly with...just not at its peak performance.

Besides....I don't know why any of you would even waste your time bashing a modification like LevelTen when it costs twice as much ($3,600) compared to the OEM reman unit. It only makes sense to buy a LevelTen if you truely plan on squeezing out every last bit of muscle out of the Q to try and get 0.1 secs less ET times in the 1/4 mile...otherwise twice the cost for everyday driving just is not justifyable.

To my knowledge we have never replaced a oem reman we have installed in the past 7 years [with an auxillary heat exchanger].

It would not surprise me that you have not had to replace an OEM reman transmission with a cooler in the past 7 years.....if the person drives 20K per year then that is 140K of which probably a lot is highway mileage which should be easier on the transmission than city driving. If you consider out of the last 7 years the 6th year and then count through last year to 2005 then the mileage on the replaced OEM reman units is much much less than the 140K on these redo trannys unless you have a crap load of people doing nothing but driving all day long for a living and keep returning to T3. Not to mention the numbers of cars that probaby get sold off to some owner who does not know what to do with the car, people who move away, or an accident and car is totalled out.

My first original OEM transmission without the aftermarket cooler or a transmission flush unless done at the 60,000 tune-up as part of standard service went around 117,000 miles. So maybe if it had more proper care it would have lasted longer with a cooler.
Modified by rsiwicki at 3:50 PM 3/13/2006

[gniknave]

Weird. I have noticed quite a difference after switching from the Mobil 1 that was in there before. I guess it was just magnified with the last fluid change. I don't believe the problem I'm having is a Level Ten issue at all, because once warm, it shifts so perfect that you'd think the transmission was brand spankin new.

I want an opinion on this note on my work order from my visit to the dealer:

"Customer requests transmission drain and refill. Clean screen not recommended to powerflush trans with high miles. Drained and refilled transmission fluid. We do not remove pan or clean screen on this vehicle"

When I went to drop off my car, I told them I had already done the transmission drain and refill months earlier. I was simply bringing it in to have the filter replaced and have the pan cleaned out (something I didn't want to do myself). They instead - without calling me first - just did a drain and fill, then charged me $179 for it saying that labor was 1.3 hours plus parts. 1.3 hours? I did it myself in .5, and it was my first time!

What do you think? I can understand not changing the filter, but not cleaning the pan at least??!!!

Not only that, but yesterday I got under the car to check that connector (looks fine now btw), and noticed that theres a slight leak from the drain plug on my transmission pan. Wasn't like that before my trip to the dealer. The fluid level however is perfect, so I'm guessing this leak is just starting. It sucks that this dealer didn't bother to listen to anything I said about the transmission. They're talking as if it's the original one when in fact I told them it wasn't.

[maxnix]

I thought you were meticulous about your cars?

I am and I operate them correctly.

Once again, I refer you to the owner's manual.

[gniknave]

Anybody have an opinion on my last reply?

[Q45tech]

transmission electrical problems show up on diagnostic display or better yet the Consult.

Other problems mechanical or body valve don't display...........you usually connect gauges to the external pressure test ports to zero in on the problem.

Measuring some of these pressures cold vs warm will tell you.

Since you have a Level 10 hopefully you did this brand new so that you have a written base log to compare with as modified pressures could be different from FSM numbers.

Very detailed proceedures in FSM as to how to check out mechanical performance.