Traction Problems vs HP

Post by **robyc** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

okay, so i have read about the rb's, the sr's, the vg's, and a few other motor swap possibilities for the 240sx, and as far as i can tell, they can fairly easily be able to put out around 400hp, and as far as i can tell, when you reach a certain point, say 320hp or so, traction is the biggest issue (for drag), not how to pump out some more ponies.

This brings to mind, sr being the cheapest for the performance, what have you done to increase traction for these light 240sx's?

Post by **ItzGenX** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

10 inch rims with properly tuned suspension might do some good. Slap radial slicks on those 10 inchers and you'd be set to fly.

Also, its about how to control the launch.

Post by **Cyberkreig** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

10" Slicks and 300+ HP.. You are now in broken driveshaft country =)

Post by **TonyMontana** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

wut if u get a custon carbon fiber drive shaft

Post by **Cyberkreig** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

The stocker may be good enough, the enjuku aluminum, or a custom Carbon Fiber would be a smart move I am sure. I just wouldnt drop the clutch on a 300-350-400hp 240(stock driveline) with slicks..

Post by **ZERO** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

I would try larger and wider rims with stickier tires and/or easing off the gas a little on your launches.

Post by **robyc** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

broken driveshaft country indeed on slicks with 350hp! =)

I was figuring that tires were the first to be brought up, I was looking more into what kind of suspension is best for the drag, i read up on this a while ago, but unfortunately it has sliped my mind and i can't remember sh$t.

Also, how much hp can the stock shaft take anyways? the last thing i would want to do is have to trailer the 240sx back home!

And, how much hp does it take to have traction problems with some pretty basic radials and rims, i was thinking right around 300hp?

Post by **lessthanjakejohn** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

you can redesign your suspension and put a ton of anti-squat into it. Top Fuel dragster's bodies actually raise of the ground during a drag..

Post by **ZERO** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

Im thinking the stock drive shaft can hold about 400hp?maybe...

Post by **jmillheiser** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

how about the stock transmission, diff, and half shafts.

can those hold 400 or so hp?

do you think DOT drag radials would work well? (i.e. BFG drag radials and nitto 555R drag radials)

Post by **Cyberkreig** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

the stock driveshaft can surely handle 400+ HP under 'normal' conditions, on street tires.. But would you be willing to test it on 10" slicks?

The transmission is pretty solid, and the half shafts are only getting half of the HP.. and are made of the same stuff as the driveshaft so... And by the time you have 400 hp, you probably have a good LSD anyway.

Post by **GraySilvia** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

lessthanjakejohn wrote:you can redesign your suspension and put a ton of anti-squat into it. Top Fuel dragster's bodies actually raise of the ground during a drag..

I thought they raise up because the tires 'swell' under power due to the centrifugal acceleration? You can see them swell up when they do the burnout....

Post by **lessthanjakejohn** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

They raise up because of both

Post by **robyc** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

good point, i never thought about the drag radials rising due to the centrifical force, hmmm . . . . interesting.

Post by **lessthanjakejohn** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

robyc wrote:good point, i never thought about the drag radials rising due to the centrifical force, hmmm . . . . interesting.

Don't know exactly waht drag radials are but... The tires i'm talking about are the huge 36-44 inchers on TOp Fuel that are inflated to like 7 psi and expand several inches during a run

Post by **C-Kwik** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

There is a difference between a drag radial and a wrinkle slick. I refer to drag radials as the type of tire that looks pretty much like most other tires, but designed more for drag racing, ie. Nitto Drags, BFG Drag radials, etc. Wrinkle slicks, which are the type you see on a lot of very high HP cars, actually have soft sidewalls that wrinkle under load. Watch a slow motion tape of wone of these and you can see the wrinkle. These tires provide a very large contact patch. They also tend to run low PSI, and so they sit low when standing still. As wheel speed increases, so do the sidewalls.

As far as Top Fuel dragsters, I don't think they really have much of a suspension. I know they do a lot of Chassis Tuning to get more traction and to prevent front end lift. And if it does, the spring rates would have to be tremendous to fight off some 5000+ HP worth of squat.

Post by **I H8 UR DSM** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

Drag radials are basically a dry weather DOT approved tire...here in the US due to many factors, many of our cars use all weather tires, oem and replacement...in europe amoung others use dry weather tires in the summer and dry months, and switch to a harder and different tred tire for rainy season...its the right way to do it, so you always have the right tire for the season...its just the way americans are, and led to all weather tires....but if you have the time and money, the correct way would be to have a drag radial type of tire for dry weather, more of a channel grove tire for rain, and a snow tire for winter....all weather tires really do suck.

Slicks have no tread pattern (and arent DOT approved)

JESSEhttp://www.rollhard.com

Post by **Nurv** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

alot of it goes back to your setup. someone with only 250rwhp and the right suspension would runs some interesting #s compared to some 400rwhp with stock or small upgraded suspension. as far as tires. drag radials have their place but dont use those as your only tires for the rear. they dont last long if ya have a heavy foot. hehe.

Post by **Silviagirl79** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

I'm going to purchase some drag radials for my rears....Do you recommend I ONLY use them for the track. Or can I use them for every day driving. (Also going to buy an LSD). Also, which drag radials do you recommend? for a 95 sr powered 240sx with about 255rwhp.

Post by **I H8 UR DSM** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

yea, and if you drive on the hwy, the person behind you will get pissed because the softer tread has a habit of picking up small pebbles and spitting them out the back of the car : )

i use paradas on the street, but wouldnt think of using them on the track..

Post by **Silviagirl79** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

what do you use for the track?

Post by **I H8 UR DSM** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

Nitto 555r drag radials.

Post by **GodzillaFan** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

555r's make a good autox tire from what ive heard, too. but they arent as grippy as the BFGs for drag.

top fuel dragsters do raise up because the wheels grow in diameter at speed. squat isnt an issue for them because all the weight is over the drive wheels.

squat is good for a front engine RWD car (if you're interested in straight line traction) it increases weight transfer.

Post by **I H8 UR DSM** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

The new bf's are real nice....the Nitto's are really just the most affordable drag radial i believe, therefore its popular....at ETOWN, BF gave out tires to people to use for the day at the event...pretty good marketing.

JESSEhttp://www.rollhard.com

Post by **Nurv** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

i want to try those BF. ive used Nittos before and had some luck with those. only if i can get something that glues my wheels, im good. heh.

Post by **I H8 UR DSM** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

U can buy that stuff that they spray the track down to 'sticky' it...and apply it to your tires(glue )...(whether its legal at your track or not i dont know)...even JUN makes/sells it : )

JESSEhttp://www.rollhard.com

Post by **Phax** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

Silviagirl79 wrote:I'm going to purchase some drag radials for my rears....Do you recommend I ONLY use them for the track. Or can I use them for every day driving. (Also going to buy an LSD). Also, which drag radials do you recommend? for a 95 sr powered 240sx with about 255rwhp.

There was a great article on drag tires a couple of months ago in one of the European tuning magazines. I'll check it out next time I'm at the shop. But in a nut shell, most of those high performance drag radials and DOT approved race tires have problems with extended wear. It has to do with the way they heat up, and then cool down afterwards. Some of the tires, especially the Yokohama's from what I remember, have noticible problems with starting to chunk apart after you've taken them through a couple of heat cycles.

Do the 555's have that sort of problem? Where you can only really warm them up a couple of times?

Post by **Projex240** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

Just my 2 cents.....240s were never in my opinion great strip cars. I mean, people have 400 hp and run 12's and sometimes 11's. Now i know there are some of us who will run 10's or less, so dont send me emails telling how wrong i am, and post stupid "as a matter of fact" replys. All im saying is that these cars arent geared like eclipse's 4.30 rear end or higher. What i mean, is that these cars are killers on the highway. Ive seen 180 mph races on sr20's. You wanna talk fast? F&*$ a 1/4 mile time. Take it on a mile run at some of these tracks that have top speed competitions. As Far as the 1/4 mile goes, Im sure we've all heard of chris may. I was speaking to someone who works in atlanta and has been to the track with chris. He watched chris may get his *** handed to him by a nitrous ka, simply because chris couldnt hook up for over half the track. Chris's car puts down alot of power, but what good is it if you do nothin but roll em over? Drag racing is really tough on a car, and OH YEAH, Broken drive shafts really suck.

Post by **I H8 UR DSM** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

Before starting to blame the car, blame the drivers/tuners/builders....there really arent that many 'experienced' tuners in the US with the SR. MTS Tuning will build you a 7 sec SRif thats what your looking for..and you have to have the knowledge and experience to build anything in the strip scene...the DSM's did rule the last couple of years because of the amount of years people had been putting into them, trial and error, and these guys like Bucher and shepherd found after time what they needed to do to those cars to make them competitive....Think of it this way, what was the first import to break into the 9's, and what year? When JUNs s13 ran a 9 like 8 years ago, no one thought that would come from an import...The motor just hasnt been popular here that long, and people really dont know what they are doing....

For every "chris may, or derrick Greaser", there is a Pepe Loco racer w/ a 550hp 10sec 240 or a MTS tuning street 240 running 8's, and what i have to explain to people is JUST BECAUSE THEY ARENT ON MESSAGE BOARDS DOESNT MEAN THEY ARE OUT THERE....these people, who are valuable parts of our community, ie. chris may, greaser, etc, have fast cars, and help people, but since they are in the "light"of fourms people get the misconception that they are the ones to set your goals after....there are much bigger fish out there : )

The main reason is people dont know what it takes to get down the 1/4 mile, and you see it here all the time "how to build a 10 sec 240"....no one ever ever ever starts w/ strengthening the chassis, suspension work, cages, traction setups, etc etc, it alwyas starts w/ what exhaust to get or something, lol

Jessehttp://www.rollhard.com

Post by **Infamous** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 10:49 am

traction? whats that?.....ever wonder how those 6500 HP funny cars get traction?;)

Traction Problems vs HP

Traction Problems vs HP

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