Track Times???

[Chris92SE]

One month later and the saga continues. Praying for no rain on Friday. Bought 101 octane unleaded today, $$$ 13 gallons/$75. Sitting in 3 cans in my garage. So now with the drop resistor switch, Y-pipe and 101 gas, I hope to be posting some good times.

why did you buy race gas?

did you bump your timing up to like 28 degrees?

I can run mine at 20 degrees with 92 octane fine.

Also, why so much fuel? Fuel = weight

I usually try to run with 1/3 tank or less. I got in 15+ runs once at Woodburn and didn't use 1/3 of a tank.

[Beancooker]

Will be advancing timing as far as possible, don't know if it will help, but can't hurt. It's test and tune so I can make several passes to find out what works best. 13 gallons divided by 3 cars.

[LA02MAX]

17* btdc is pretty much the happy medium for base ignition timing on the VQ. Anything more than that doesn't yield any increased throttle response.

Also, there's really no need to run 101 octane gas in our engines. The octane rating lets you know how much fuel can be compressed before it spontaneously ignites. By advancing our base ignition timing to 17* btdc, we can still use 91 to 93 octane gas with no problems. Anything lower, and the AF mixutre could spontaneously ignite during compression before the spark is released, causing that energy to move against the piston (in other words causing the engine to knock) making it MUCH less efficient. In this case, our knock sensors would detect it and retard the ignition timing.

Furthermore, advancing our ignition timing via the consult II ONLY affects base ignition timing (as i mentioned before) which is pretty much anything below 2k iirc. Anything above that, the ECU returns to the stock timing maps, so you wouldn't see much of anything on the track from advancing it. Autocrossers would benefit much more from this.

And also, how do you expect to 'advance the timing as far as possible'? Stock, we can see up to 20* BTDC for base ignition timing, but like i said before, there will be no benefits over advancing it to 17 and you will have to use a higher octane gas. Advancing the timing can only be done with the consult II (unless you have a special program like uprev cipher or EU) so you would have to go to the dealer to have the timing advanced, use the 101 octane fuel to get to the track, race, and go back to the dealer to retard it...Do you have any sort of EM like Emanage Ultimate? If so, disregard my last paragraph

Anyways, just go to the track as you are, and you can use the 101 octane gas, because it's not going to hurt anything, but like I said before, there's no need to. Good luck!

[Beancooker]

Okay, I know about consult II and the timing, been there. Was messing with a mechanic and consult II to see if any other way timing could be advanced. 17*-20* it's personal opinion. Second the advance to 17* is good through all RPM ranges, UNLESS you're at WOT. At WOT the timing goes to the most agressive fuel/air maps possible until the knock sensor detects differently. I believe it is around 20* at WOT. The race gas was just something to try, an experiment,OK. BFD I burned some expensive gas and gained absolutely fukcing nothing! You could tell me all day long that it wouldn't make a difference, but I'm a person that wants to see it for myself. FYI Nissan dealerships are not the only mechanics who posess consult II. Some of the better import shops use it also. Sorry if I come off like a d!ck, it's been a long day.

[Beancooker]

OK, went to the track. The 101 octane gas was a waste. Had fun none the less. After the Y-pipe and cat and drop resistor disable, I still couldn't match my best season time, 15.4 sec. Traction was a problem, they wouldn't spray any VHT, saving it for race day, not test & tune. Between that and a few 9sec cars turning it into a skating rink with melted rubber, I couldn't squeeze any more out of the Max. Had some fun getting a smokey pic for my sig...I wish it was as fast as it looks in the pic. All in all it was a fun day. Was even complimented by a 5.0 stang who thought I was quick. But I've come to understand, my car will NEVER be fast enough. So, my best timeslip is from July, faster than today's run. Today's best time


Modified by beancooker at 12:12 AM 9/23/2006

[audtatious]

That's pretty much why I quit going. If you can't get traction, you won't get a good time. I get better launches from a stoplight than the dragstrip (not saying I street race).

[LA02MAX]

No, you didn't come off as a d!ck at all. However, I'm not sure I understand the first part of your post. Did you advance your timing to 20*? If so, are you looking to keep it that way? This is a good quote from ls1tech.com:

"Improving combustion efficiency allows timing to retard, which then allows for combustion events at a later stage of piston rise (crank angle closer to zero). This then results in reduced 'negative' work 'against' the combustion cycle and improves BMEP and HP.

In other words, if you stop making more power at 22 degrees of timing, there is absolutely no point in going to 28 or 32...."

just some food for thought...you can do whatever you want but I just wanted to inform you that after 17* you will se no improvement

Secondly, although the throttle position does affect ignition timing, it's not the only thing. Throttle position and engine speed are the two biggest factors affecting it (among MANY others). When you go above ~ 2300 RPMs, regardless of whether you're at WOT or not, the ECU will use the stock timing maps. Similarly, if you are at WOT <2300 rpms, your ECU will do the same thing. The only ways to change your timing throughout the rev-band is to either get a Technosquare ECU upgrade, get bigger injectors/raise fuel pressure and remove fuel via MAF conditioning, or get an E-manage Ultimate.

Ignition timing changes dramatically throughout the revband, so you can't really say "20* at WOT".

Look here:

I would think your timing would be closer to the 4th gen timing, as you have a 3.0, but I know your ECU does differ greatly from theirs, so it may be totally different. This is just showing how timing is affected throught the revband

Anyways, I'm sorry to hear about your track experience. What were the conditions like? Also, what tires are you running on, and what's your launch technique? I would definitely not go to the track right now down here in louisiana, because it's like 95* with 100% humidity, which would even make my car run in the 15's! haha.
Modified by LA02MAX at 5:32 PM 9/23/2006

[Beancooker]

It was a perfect day, 65-70* sunny (and for Washington) dry/40% humidity. Falken FK451's. Launch: stage, pop in neutral, rev to 2500 with foot on brake (to squeeze brakes completely), When back at idle pop in 1st. OD off. Keep left foot on brake and rev as high as it will allow (around 2500) When last yellow lights up, quickly remove foot from brake and go. I've tried launching many different ways and this works best for me. I don't get much wheel spin at all. I prefer to shift manually, it is slower by at least 2/10ths of a second to let the auto shift itself.

[Chris92SE]

it looks like you can't complain too much about the launches you had. A 2.3 60-foot time is acceptable. I think my best ever was like 2.23 or 2.27 and my car has a VLSD.

Are you heating up your tires in the water box? You shouldn't be. Street tires launch better when not heated up. That is just for slicks. Go around it. A lot of times I launch slightly to the side of the big black rubber patches left by the big dogs and I still get good traction.

I didn't think the AT had much for traction problems and you even said you didn't have much wheelspin.

I think your time is pretty good for an AT 3.0L. That's pretty much the worst case scenario for a 5th gen.

I think when NWMax had our last event (2004), Gail ran high 15s to 16 flat in his AE auto. He has an intake and y-pipe. Eric has a 3.0L 4th gen 5-speed and when he took off the s/c and ran without nitrous he was at 15.3. Of course, my slow old 3rd gen goes about 14.8

[Beancooker]

14.8 is definitely not slow. I know it's a decent time for a 3.0/AT, but I pulled off a 15.4 and since then did a Y-pipe and cat. I was hoping that would push me into the 14's. Just pissed me off enough that I've got to turbo the Max now.

[MaximA32]

Took mine to the track last night. Track temp was about 65 degrees and air temp was about 15 degrees lower than that. I made 6 passes and here are the results...

15.9620 @ 85.2416.1160 @ 84.8716.4679 @ 81.98 (terrible launch)15.3162 @ 89.10(60 ft at 2.2823)15.5100 @ 89.0716.1080 @ 83.34

The first run was on an older F-body Camaro with nitrous. I had him all the way to the 1000' mark but then he hit the spray and ended up running a 15.1 @ 108. HAHA which SUCKS. haha

[Beancooker]

What car are you running, Maxima, but what year, AT or 5spd?

[audtatious]

98 5sp

[MaximA32]

thanks. haha. yeah 98 5spd.

[Beancooker]

Now a '98 doesn't have VIAS does it. If not those are decent times. If you do have VIAS, it's broken, post back and I'll link you to a fix-it page.I'm curious to see how much you improve after your list of mods in your sig.

[MaximA32]

Here's the thing. I have an intake but it's a short ram. I did it for the sound but I can definitely feel the difference. As for the exhaust, that'll be done prior to spring and the next race season. And before my buddy's wedding because i want to get people staring as I drive up. LOL

[Beancooker]

Yeah, I saw your thread about the intake. Nice job. VIAS is Nissan's variable intake air system. It opens up butterflys in the intake manifold around 4800-5000 RPM. You get a decent jump in power from it. However I just found out that the 4th gens don't have it. If you see a 5th gen intake manifold for sale, jump on it. It'll be worth it for the extra ponys.

[MaximA32]

Yeah so I've heard. I think I read somewhere it'll give in the neighborhood of about 30 more? That info correct? And I just looked up the stock numbers on my Max and I was pretty impressed.

[LA02MAX]

There are two variable intake manifolds available to the 4th gen VQ30DE. The first one is the MEVI (middle eastern variable intake) that were on the VQ's overseas. The gains are substantial in the high end but iirc you lose just a LITTLE bit of low-end power.

The second is the 00vi from the VQ30DE-K in the 2000-2001 USDM maximas. This is overall a better IM than the MEVI and I dont think you lose any power from the low end. I don't think the gains are as high as 30whp/tq but it's definitely noticable when it opens up.

[LA02MAX]

I found some dyno comparisons of the USIM, MEVI, and 00VI. Though the pictures are sorta crappy, you can clearly see the gains:

[Beancooker]

Yes, 30hp at the crank. The graphs posted are rather true, but also look at the ECU running while dyno'ed. None the less, the hp is worth it and it's fairly cheap.

[maxhopper]

Well I was digging around and found my timeslips from 2004 when I bracket raced in the import series, at the local 1/8 mile track. I competed in 3 out 4 events, and ended up tied for 4th in series points.

97, automatic, drop resistor mod, intake, y-pipe, UDP, illuminas (firmest setting), h-techs, crappy continental all season tires.

This was my personal best on 10/2/04.1/8 ET 9.9431/8 MPH 72.11

I'd really like to make another run since the addition of the cat-back. The butt dyno says that I have more power above 3000 rpm; so I'd like to see how that ranslates at the track.

[Beancooker]

What model of butt dyno do you have, Levi's, Guess, Lee, Wrangler, or Jesda's pants?

Butt dyno, FTW!!!

[maxhopper]

Levi's

[Acecool]

Remember, an AUTO transmission weighs close to 5/600 pounds more than a manual.

Those 5 HP and more are lost..

[MaximA32]

haha. yesssssss. the butt dyno. the finest tuned instrument ever created by god for hp readings.

[DaBalla07]

Hey Ive run my car now 4 times well Ive been to the track that much and have about 20 or 25 runs in and getting faster every week. Ive been running low 15's however last week I ran my fastest to that point a 14.88 @ 94.78 with r/t of .532 , haha but wait it was this week I ran a 14.77 @ 94.34 and a .556 r/t. I am all stock with no upgrades, lol the only things I've done so far have been to run with about 1/4 tank of gas and take out the spare and have pulled those times at my local track which is said to be one of the worst, Im going to a better track for the importfaceoff in Dallas, TX this wknd and hoping to run even quicker, expectations are possible mid to low 14's so I'll let you know in a wk, only difference would be maybe a nismo intake from a friend but not sure.

[hsckris]

back the trans resistor issue...

you absolutely will ruin your transmission if you leave it like this for a significant time period.

my brother did it (and drove it most everyday like that) and the transmission didn't last much longer than 10-15k miles (i forget exactly), and i thought that was pretty good. (this was a 240sx, so that probably matters).

[maxhopper]

back the trans resistor issue...you absolutely will ruin your transmission if you leave it like this for a significant time period.

That is absolutely correct. The only time I disconnected the drop resistor was when I was at the track.

I don't see how anyone could drive on the street with it disconnected; the shifts are far too jarring for it to be driven on the street like that.

[DaBalla07]

Well I made about 9 or 10 runs last night bc the track was quite empty and I did well again. I was more consistent and ran a hand full of 14.8's and a few low 15's, couple 15 flat and 15.1 with one 15.3 my fastest for the night was a 14.73 my second quickest time so far. Anyway just wanted to drop in and mention that and I will certainlly do the same after I get back from a better track this wknd.