Track racing, not autocross or drag
Track racing, not autocross or drag
Does anyone track race their 240sx? How well do they do, and what's the competition? I'm guessing integras, but anyone race e36 bimmers at the track? When I was deciding 240sx or e36 bmw, the people on bimmerforum gave me the idea that the 240sx is a terrible track car.
-
quiksilvia
- Posts: 3197
- Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 7:09 am
- Car: 95 s14 se
- Contact:
the 240 is the most popular car in japan, why u ask? the suspension and the potential for excellence in drifting, i dont see many e36's drifting. i had an e30 and i loved it, but it was nowhere near the handling of my 240. so if its near impossible to get a 240/180/s13 in japan, is has to be doing something right, those bimmer guys are just mad cuz they have to pay a lot for anything on those cars
-
96_S14_SE
- Posts: 973
- Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 11:10 am
- Car: 96 S14 SE - 05 VW GTI 1.8t - 89 S13 coupe "gold on brown"
But wheel to wheel, or track racing isnt about drifting....
I guess it all depends on what type of racing and class you plan to run in as to what type of competition you will face... I know there are a few people on FA.com that make frequent stops to the local tracks... I dont know about here. I have seen some scca footage on TV where the 240 was doing very well. One time I saw one leading only to get nudged and sent into a wall in the last 3 laps iirc.
One thing I wouldnt overlook is the brakes. While the stock ones are good for street / auto-x (I lock mine up durring the events from time to time so untill I get dot-r compounds stock is fine) where heat isnt much of an issue, on the track I would deffinately run a larger setup... If for nothing more then a larger heat capacity, its still worth while.
I guess it all depends on what type of racing and class you plan to run in as to what type of competition you will face... I know there are a few people on FA.com that make frequent stops to the local tracks... I dont know about here. I have seen some scca footage on TV where the 240 was doing very well. One time I saw one leading only to get nudged and sent into a wall in the last 3 laps iirc.
One thing I wouldnt overlook is the brakes. While the stock ones are good for street / auto-x (I lock mine up durring the events from time to time so untill I get dot-r compounds stock is fine) where heat isnt much of an issue, on the track I would deffinately run a larger setup... If for nothing more then a larger heat capacity, its still worth while.
apzak - as 96_S14_SE mentioned, it depends on what class you're talking about. In the SCCA, the 240SX is classed in Showroom Stock, Improved Touring (IT), and Production - Showroom Stock being the slowest, least modified class, Production being the fastest, most heavliy modified. In IT (the class I'm most familiar with), where mods are mostly suspension oriented (with limited engine mods, like intake and headers), the '89 - '90 240s (SOHC) run in the "A" class (ITA), mostly against the CRXsi's, Integras (non GS-R), and 1st gen RX7s. A well prepared 240 with a good driver (not me 
) will run with, and frequently beat, any of these cars. On the other hand, the '91+ (DOHC) 240s run in the "S" class (ITS) against older 240Zs, 2nd gen RX7s, and the dreaded E36 325's. Unfortunately, the 240SX doesn't fare nearly as well against these cars. Considering a well-tuned 325is can make upwards of 210 - 215 hp at the rear wheels, it's really not much of a contest.
Oh, and another thing I agree with 96_S14_SE about, those things that make a car a great drifter are exactly the opposite of what make a great track car.
) will run with, and frequently beat, any of these cars. On the other hand, the '91+ (DOHC) 240s run in the "S" class (ITS) against older 240Zs, 2nd gen RX7s, and the dreaded E36 325's. Unfortunately, the 240SX doesn't fare nearly as well against these cars. Considering a well-tuned 325is can make upwards of 210 - 215 hp at the rear wheels, it's really not much of a contest. Oh, and another thing I agree with 96_S14_SE about, those things that make a car a great drifter are exactly the opposite of what make a great track car.
You went to bimmerforums asking about the 240sx compared to an M3! What do you expect? They are a bunch of elitists over there.
Tell you what a couple grand in the suspension and some performance mods will tear any BMW up in autocross(small course). The 240sx needs work to be good but when it is, OH MAN is it good. Independent multilink, rear wheel drive, lightweight, I don't think there is a more promising track car for the money! Yes I know you said track but that's the same thing, but to be honest, the 240sx does not have enough power from the factory to come close to competing with the M3 on the road course. With some engine work though, it can. Again think of the money spent. $20K on a bimmer or $5-7K for a decent 240sx with $15K worth of mods in it that runs 11s and smokes supras on the track?
The BMW will be more impressive to the ladies, yes. You will be able to cruise with friends in the backseat. It is up to you what to get. You want luxury or performance? IMHO the two do not, and should not ever, compare.
Timhttp://www.projectaspec.com
Tell you what a couple grand in the suspension and some performance mods will tear any BMW up in autocross(small course). The 240sx needs work to be good but when it is, OH MAN is it good. Independent multilink, rear wheel drive, lightweight, I don't think there is a more promising track car for the money! Yes I know you said track but that's the same thing, but to be honest, the 240sx does not have enough power from the factory to come close to competing with the M3 on the road course. With some engine work though, it can. Again think of the money spent. $20K on a bimmer or $5-7K for a decent 240sx with $15K worth of mods in it that runs 11s and smokes supras on the track?
The BMW will be more impressive to the ladies, yes. You will be able to cruise with friends in the backseat. It is up to you what to get. You want luxury or performance? IMHO the two do not, and should not ever, compare.
Timhttp://www.projectaspec.com
-
96_S14_SE
- Posts: 973
- Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 11:10 am
- Car: 96 S14 SE - 05 VW GTI 1.8t - 89 S13 coupe "gold on brown"
Then again soloII isnt like track racing either. Not all track racers make decent auto-crossers. You would think so, due to the higher speeds and the likes needed for track / wheel to wheel racing, but auto-x is a different breed of its own.
Also with auto-x the only time a bmw and a 240 could co-exist is in SM... Well STS too but with the limited amount of work alloted in STS, well lets not go there. So yeah SM, its still not fair as if the person has the cash to dump on a bmw in the first place they will find a way to out the lil s-chassis.
Dont get me wrong the car is a good platform and can do well, but so can the other. This years rolex I saw a few bmw's but not a single 240.... I saw a cpl a few yrs back though
If you are really concerned about which to buy figure out what you want to do with it. Then figure out where it will be placed, and finally figure out which has been statistically proven beter for what you want.... If I wanted a kick a$$ sm2 car, and I hadnt decided on a chassis to build, I "wouldnt" build up a Z32... Thats for sure.
edit: ^^ was a generalized statement I would make to someone who was undecided. I know you decided but I dont know why I wrote it as if you hadnt...
One thing to remember about the 240 in relation to wheel to wheel, s-chassis chassis' are a dime a dozen, as you never know what will happen... I mean how goods a bmw going to do if you wreck it and have to spend the rest of the season saving up for a new shell (can you even find just shells hehe)... How long would you have to save to get a non running, hell even non rolling (if damage warranted being able to swap out the needed parts) chassis for a s14?
Also with auto-x the only time a bmw and a 240 could co-exist is in SM... Well STS too but with the limited amount of work alloted in STS, well lets not go there. So yeah SM, its still not fair as if the person has the cash to dump on a bmw in the first place they will find a way to out the lil s-chassis.
Dont get me wrong the car is a good platform and can do well, but so can the other. This years rolex I saw a few bmw's but not a single 240.... I saw a cpl a few yrs back though
If you are really concerned about which to buy figure out what you want to do with it. Then figure out where it will be placed, and finally figure out which has been statistically proven beter for what you want.... If I wanted a kick a$$ sm2 car, and I hadnt decided on a chassis to build, I "wouldnt" build up a Z32... Thats for sure.
edit: ^^ was a generalized statement I would make to someone who was undecided. I know you decided but I dont know why I wrote it as if you hadnt...
One thing to remember about the 240 in relation to wheel to wheel, s-chassis chassis' are a dime a dozen, as you never know what will happen... I mean how goods a bmw going to do if you wreck it and have to spend the rest of the season saving up for a new shell (can you even find just shells hehe)... How long would you have to save to get a non running, hell even non rolling (if damage warranted being able to swap out the needed parts) chassis for a s14?
Quote »The BMW will be more impressive to the ladies, yes. [/quote]
Actually I find it the other way around. I have a 1998 240sx and it turns way more heads than a E36 BMW. There are too many of them (e36 3 series), and few can tell the difference between an M3 and 318. Some 318s actually came with an "M3 look" package. Not that I care about turning heads, I bought the newest 240sx I could afford because I wanted reliability - the main reason I picked the 240sx vs the BMW M3. I could find a very nice low millage (39,000) 1998 240sx that I know will be reliable for a few grands less than a higher (70k-90k millage) BMW M3 that has the legendary german maintnance cost.
Anyway sorry to bring this post back up from the dead. The other night when no one was on the road I pushed my 240sx into a turn hard, but am preaty dissapointed with the results. It was a 45mph ramp that opens up, so I maintained maybe 70mph. Once I enter the turn I realize I'm going faster than the car can handle so I gently apply the brakes and bring it down to 60 while slidding a little. I know brakes arent the best thing to use when your in a fast turn, but it was just starting and I knew if I kept 70mph I would have been sent into the barrer once it got tighter. (I know this highway well) My car doesnt have LSD but I don't think that would have helped in this situation because I was in neutral. I usually have my car in gear in a turn ready to exit before I enter, but I have a bad habit now using neutral because my exhaust is too loud.Anyway, when you guys say the 240sx is a good drift car, is the problem in the chassis or suspension? Grip is better than drift on a track, right? Now I have the KA24DE which I'm guessing is the best engine for a tight autocross course. I'm probably going to autocross my car because track racing would cost too much to get the engine right, and will probably loose daily driveability. Plus with a 98, it cost 11,000 which would be too much to send into a wall a high speed. The worst that can happen on an autocross course is hitting a cone, right? Anyway, is the suspension significantly different for autocross cars vs track cars? I'd want a setup for autocrossing, but I would like it to allow me to take turns on the street quicker than usuall. I'm guessing an autocross suspension would be great on my everyday driver because autocross courses are about the same speed as street, right? I'm not looking to take any turns at 100mph on public roads.. hell I don't even drive that fast in a straight line. I love it when riced honda civics tailgate me on the street, and I loose them once I get a turn. That always shuts them up. What's with the new 3 series? I drove in one of those and the handling was impressive. I'd like something like that, but maybe cant get it because the bmw has something the 240sx doesnt - refinement.
wow I'm rambling anyway everything on this thread was useful to me so I decided to bring it back.
Actually I find it the other way around. I have a 1998 240sx and it turns way more heads than a E36 BMW. There are too many of them (e36 3 series), and few can tell the difference between an M3 and 318. Some 318s actually came with an "M3 look" package. Not that I care about turning heads, I bought the newest 240sx I could afford because I wanted reliability - the main reason I picked the 240sx vs the BMW M3. I could find a very nice low millage (39,000) 1998 240sx that I know will be reliable for a few grands less than a higher (70k-90k millage) BMW M3 that has the legendary german maintnance cost.
Anyway sorry to bring this post back up from the dead. The other night when no one was on the road I pushed my 240sx into a turn hard, but am preaty dissapointed with the results. It was a 45mph ramp that opens up, so I maintained maybe 70mph. Once I enter the turn I realize I'm going faster than the car can handle so I gently apply the brakes and bring it down to 60 while slidding a little. I know brakes arent the best thing to use when your in a fast turn, but it was just starting and I knew if I kept 70mph I would have been sent into the barrer once it got tighter. (I know this highway well) My car doesnt have LSD but I don't think that would have helped in this situation because I was in neutral. I usually have my car in gear in a turn ready to exit before I enter, but I have a bad habit now using neutral because my exhaust is too loud.Anyway, when you guys say the 240sx is a good drift car, is the problem in the chassis or suspension? Grip is better than drift on a track, right? Now I have the KA24DE which I'm guessing is the best engine for a tight autocross course. I'm probably going to autocross my car because track racing would cost too much to get the engine right, and will probably loose daily driveability. Plus with a 98, it cost 11,000 which would be too much to send into a wall a high speed. The worst that can happen on an autocross course is hitting a cone, right? Anyway, is the suspension significantly different for autocross cars vs track cars? I'd want a setup for autocrossing, but I would like it to allow me to take turns on the street quicker than usuall. I'm guessing an autocross suspension would be great on my everyday driver because autocross courses are about the same speed as street, right? I'm not looking to take any turns at 100mph on public roads.. hell I don't even drive that fast in a straight line. I love it when riced honda civics tailgate me on the street, and I loose them once I get a turn. That always shuts them up. What's with the new 3 series? I drove in one of those and the handling was impressive. I'd like something like that, but maybe cant get it because the bmw has something the 240sx doesnt - refinement.
wow I'm rambling anyway everything on this thread was useful to me so I decided to bring it back.
Quote » Oh, and another thing I agree with 96_S14_SE about, those things that make a car a great drifter are exactly the opposite of what make a great track car.[/quote]
I disagree with this. If you're talking about setups, then yes, drift setup does not make sense where a track racer is concerned. But as far a basic traits about a car that make it a good drifter (handling, balance, & weight distribution) the same traits are exactly what you would want in a track car.
If I remember correctly, there was an SCCA class champion in a 240 several years ago - it was featured in one of those hoosier ads in SCCA's magazine. It was an orange car.
Quote » Anyway, when you guys say the 240sx is a good drift car, is the problem in the chassis or suspension? [/quote]
The 'problem', by which I mean 'merit', of the 240 is in its chassis balance and handling. A near 50/50 weight distribution (actually 53/47) and a lot of positive castor (6-7deg.) don't hurt either. BUT - BMWs have excellent weight distribution also, nearly 50/50 on almost every car they produce.
Quote » Grip is better than drift on a track, right?[/quote]
It's faster.
Quote » The worst that can happen on an autocross course is hitting a cone, right? Anyway, is the suspension significantly different for autocross cars vs track cars? I'd want a setup for autocrossing, but I would like it to allow me to take turns on the street quicker than usuall. I'm guessing an autocross suspension would be great on my everyday driver because autocross courses are about the same speed as street, right?[/quote]
1. Yes, unless your course designer and you are collectively boneheads.2. Depends on how competitive you want to be.3. It will.4. Autocross courses usually top out around 50-60mph.
I disagree with this. If you're talking about setups, then yes, drift setup does not make sense where a track racer is concerned. But as far a basic traits about a car that make it a good drifter (handling, balance, & weight distribution) the same traits are exactly what you would want in a track car.
If I remember correctly, there was an SCCA class champion in a 240 several years ago - it was featured in one of those hoosier ads in SCCA's magazine. It was an orange car.
Quote » Anyway, when you guys say the 240sx is a good drift car, is the problem in the chassis or suspension? [/quote]
The 'problem', by which I mean 'merit', of the 240 is in its chassis balance and handling. A near 50/50 weight distribution (actually 53/47) and a lot of positive castor (6-7deg.) don't hurt either. BUT - BMWs have excellent weight distribution also, nearly 50/50 on almost every car they produce.
Quote » Grip is better than drift on a track, right?[/quote]
It's faster.
Quote » The worst that can happen on an autocross course is hitting a cone, right? Anyway, is the suspension significantly different for autocross cars vs track cars? I'd want a setup for autocrossing, but I would like it to allow me to take turns on the street quicker than usuall. I'm guessing an autocross suspension would be great on my everyday driver because autocross courses are about the same speed as street, right?[/quote]
1. Yes, unless your course designer and you are collectively boneheads.2. Depends on how competitive you want to be.3. It will.4. Autocross courses usually top out around 50-60mph.
Dante - yes, I was talking about the setup. I'm pretty sure a setup that makes the car drift well will generally suck on the track.
Apzak - there's no 'problem' with being a good drift car. As Dante pointed out, the same basic qualities that make the car easliy adaptable for drifting also make it pretty good for racing. It's all about how the car is set up. And I'm not an expert on autox (or road racing, for that matter), but I don't think the basics are much different between the two. I believe the track cars are just a few notches stiffer on most of the suspension settings than the autox cars, to handle the higher speeds involved. I still drive my 240 on the street from time to time (and will continue to until it's time to gut her and put in the cage), and I can tell you with the full-race suspension setup you wouldn't want to drive it very often, and then only on relatively smooth roads. At the same time, with the Azenis tires, GC suspension, and Whiteline bushings & swaybars the car sticks like nothing I've ever driven. It's really a blast to take 35 mph interstate off-ramps at 70 - 75 mph and just be glued to the road.
Apzak - there's no 'problem' with being a good drift car. As Dante pointed out, the same basic qualities that make the car easliy adaptable for drifting also make it pretty good for racing. It's all about how the car is set up. And I'm not an expert on autox (or road racing, for that matter), but I don't think the basics are much different between the two. I believe the track cars are just a few notches stiffer on most of the suspension settings than the autox cars, to handle the higher speeds involved. I still drive my 240 on the street from time to time (and will continue to until it's time to gut her and put in the cage), and I can tell you with the full-race suspension setup you wouldn't want to drive it very often, and then only on relatively smooth roads. At the same time, with the Azenis tires, GC suspension, and Whiteline bushings & swaybars the car sticks like nothing I've ever driven. It's really a blast to take 35 mph interstate off-ramps at 70 - 75 mph and just be glued to the road.
-
96_S14_SE
- Posts: 973
- Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 11:10 am
- Car: 96 S14 SE - 05 VW GTI 1.8t - 89 S13 coupe "gold on brown"
I agree with the above two completely.
For the drift vs track, the parts are not what differs, as alot of time youll see the same parts , but the tuning style and setups of those parts is what differs. This was previously stated..
As for track cars being stiffer then auto-x cars most of the time that is the case, but not always. The reason alot of the auto-x cars are softer is due to budget, and streetability. Its an entry level way to get into scca racing, thus you get alot of amatures just out there having fun with their only car and sole transportation, like me. You dont want to drive a track setup on the street as it is stiff and jarring always, and its just not safe, as the streets are always full of people who dont know what they are doing. Emergency manuvering in confined and object littered areas happens alot, and you dont want to have to make one into a shoddy part of street bringing one or two tires off of the ground and loosing it.
That is another reason they are stiifer at the track is because, auto-x's are held predominantly in parking lots. They are seldom ever perfectly flat and smooth. From all I have read and heard nationals at topeka is very harsh and bumpy. Hell one of my local ones has drains that are recessed 1" into the ground, and people with street setups have become partially airborn, a few times.
As for utilizing a proper setup on the street... My setup is rather stiff for what I have, but I could add some additional stiffness You will never utilize the suspension as much as you can on an auto-x course. The courses are just so tight and taken at the cars limit, that one will not be able to duplicate that on the street. It helps emensly in the fun factor on the street though, and I have yet to be pulled on (car in front going faster then me) or pushed (car behind me riding my ***) going into or out of an exit or on ramp
I usually am the one pulling away, or pushing the person with the exhaust that wants to rev on me prior to entering the ramps / corners. On occasion I will wait at the entrance of a on ramp going in first slowly so that the person in front of me can take their sweet time before hammering it.
One day I feel I'll get clocked doing 90 around a 30mph posted right hand sweeper, then 65 - 70 around a sharper left hand sweeper immediately after, exit ramp that is my favorite.
Also keep in mind that while the speeds are excessive, they are done at such speed only when there are no other cars on that ramp, when the conditions are optimal, and it is still under the limit of my car as my street tires or not near the max of their adhesion limits. I know they are not because I see the limits at the auto-x. I know its not the safest nor the wisest but sometimes I cant help it, and it usually gets like that the week prior to the next event (3 weeks after the last)...
But it does put a massive grin on my face, which no doubt the cop will see if this does happen
Oh and for the cone issue hehe My front bumper started to fade pre auto-x. I was going to paint it but when I smack a cone full on and hear that lovely THWACK I laugh vs cringe. Also if you are not hitting cones you are not going fast enough, or you lack the skills hopefully attained from getting to know your car through event seat time...
I dont know... I rambling... um yeah 17 days and counting (its been two months since my last event ahhhhhhhhhh)
For the drift vs track, the parts are not what differs, as alot of time youll see the same parts , but the tuning style and setups of those parts is what differs. This was previously stated..
As for track cars being stiffer then auto-x cars most of the time that is the case, but not always. The reason alot of the auto-x cars are softer is due to budget, and streetability. Its an entry level way to get into scca racing, thus you get alot of amatures just out there having fun with their only car and sole transportation, like me. You dont want to drive a track setup on the street as it is stiff and jarring always, and its just not safe, as the streets are always full of people who dont know what they are doing. Emergency manuvering in confined and object littered areas happens alot, and you dont want to have to make one into a shoddy part of street bringing one or two tires off of the ground and loosing it.
That is another reason they are stiifer at the track is because, auto-x's are held predominantly in parking lots. They are seldom ever perfectly flat and smooth. From all I have read and heard nationals at topeka is very harsh and bumpy. Hell one of my local ones has drains that are recessed 1" into the ground, and people with street setups have become partially airborn, a few times.
As for utilizing a proper setup on the street... My setup is rather stiff for what I have, but I could add some additional stiffness
You will never utilize the suspension as much as you can on an auto-x course. The courses are just so tight and taken at the cars limit, that one will not be able to duplicate that on the street. It helps emensly in the fun factor on the street though, and I have yet to be pulled on (car in front going faster then me) or pushed (car behind me riding my ***) going into or out of an exit or on ramp I usually am the one pulling away, or pushing the person with the exhaust that wants to rev on me prior to entering the ramps / corners. On occasion I will wait at the entrance of a on ramp going in first slowly so that the person in front of me can take their sweet time before hammering it.
One day I feel I'll get clocked doing 90 around a 30mph posted right hand sweeper, then 65 - 70 around a sharper left hand sweeper immediately after, exit ramp that is my favorite.
Also keep in mind that while the speeds are excessive, they are done at such speed only when there are no other cars on that ramp, when the conditions are optimal, and it is still under the limit of my car as my street tires or not near the max of their adhesion limits. I know they are not because I see the limits at the auto-x. I know its not the safest nor the wisest but sometimes I cant help it, and it usually gets like that the week prior to the next event (3 weeks after the last)...
But it does put a massive grin on my face, which no doubt the cop will see if this does happen
Oh and for the cone issue hehe My front bumper started to fade pre auto-x. I was going to paint it but when I smack a cone full on and hear that lovely THWACK I laugh vs cringe. Also if you are not hitting cones you are not going fast enough, or you lack the skills hopefully attained from getting to know your car through event seat time...
I dont know... I rambling... um yeah 17 days and counting (its been two months since my last event ahhhhhhhhhh)
Hard suspension is great for high speed. For auto-x a little softer than that seems to work better. Helps load the outside tires and plant them. I'm working on softening up my front so i don't get as much push on the slow portions. In the high speed portions the car in great. The pic. I've included of the beemer ( which is bone stock) often posts FTD in stock catagories beating z-06s and the like. His softer suspension lets the weight transfer to the outside tires and plant 'em like a redwood. The inside front tire stays in the air though turn. Sickness. But then again he's a past national champ and about a bajillion times better driver than I am. Also the weight transfer doesn't have to be this exteme. Just an example. Darn beemers.They're as thick a flies here.
BTW got the Cendiv here in Milw. this weekend. Its gonna be great!
BTW got the Cendiv here in Milw. this weekend. Its gonna be great!
cart cars and regualr cars behave very diffrently.
for one cart cars have almost no body roll since their feather light and have a center of gravity IN the asphalt, also their engines are positioned at the back, and any attempt at a drift will send it flying which ever direction.
regular cars have the complete opposite, and can afford to slide arround.
and following your logic i should tell Tommy Makinnen to stop driving at a 90* angle and start braking before his turns.
for one cart cars have almost no body roll since their feather light and have a center of gravity IN the asphalt, also their engines are positioned at the back, and any attempt at a drift will send it flying which ever direction.
regular cars have the complete opposite, and can afford to slide arround.
and following your logic i should tell Tommy Makinnen to stop driving at a 90* angle and start braking before his turns.
Ok, so you're gonna sit there and tell me the rules are different for rear-engine, open wheel cars (btw Schumacher and Montoya race in F1, not Cart), and then turn around and use an example from cars that race predominately in the dirt. Yeah, that's great logic. So let's get a little closer to home - watch any Trans-Am, ALMS, SWC, BTCC, or even SCCA club race, and you'll see that absolutely NOBODY is out there sliding the car around (at least not on purpose). These are "regular" cars. It's just not the fastest way to get around the track, period. And don't give me the stuff about tire wear, if it were faster, the pro teams would find a way to get around the tire wear issue. They would be running the hardest compound they could find if that were the only problem.
Anyway, to go back to your original question: myth.
Anyway, to go back to your original question: myth.
-
96_S14_SE
- Posts: 973
- Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 11:10 am
- Car: 96 S14 SE - 05 VW GTI 1.8t - 89 S13 coupe "gold on brown"
There is really only one reason to come loose in the back... Also because of this reason it is faster in this sole application... It is also the same reason you see the rally guys doing it..
Tight radius turns. When the turn is to tight to effectively apex it, or even hit it at a decent speed, one will rotate the car to shorten its turning radius.
You see it alot (slight rotation of the rear of the car to corner faster) on auto-x's as the turns are so technical and sharp that its the fastest way sometimes. Mostly only the proficent drivers do this. It doesnt matter if its fwd or rwd sometimes it needs to be done. But when joe blow turns the course into a kamakazi cone killing drift session, um... he isnt taking home FTD...
Tight radius turns. When the turn is to tight to effectively apex it, or even hit it at a decent speed, one will rotate the car to shorten its turning radius.
You see it alot (slight rotation of the rear of the car to corner faster) on auto-x's as the turns are so technical and sharp that its the fastest way sometimes. Mostly only the proficent drivers do this. It doesnt matter if its fwd or rwd sometimes it needs to be done. But when joe blow turns the course into a kamakazi cone killing drift session, um... he isnt taking home FTD...
"not a good race car"
Why would a local nissan mechanic tell me this? I was asking him how much it would cost to install cams on my 98, and he said it's not worth it, and If I want to race I'm better off building a race car out of something else. He also said camshafts are a bit more difficult to install on the ka24de.
I asked him why he said this but never really got a good reponse. He's a great guy with a good reputation and only works on nissans, so I was very confused when he told me the above.
I asked him why he said this but never really got a good reponse. He's a great guy with a good reputation and only works on nissans, so I was very confused when he told me the above.
-
96_S14_SE
- Posts: 973
- Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 11:10 am
- Car: 96 S14 SE - 05 VW GTI 1.8t - 89 S13 coupe "gold on brown"
Its worth it!! Either the straight s13 setup, the 248-232 s-chassis mix, or the 248-248 nissan motorsports (or replicated) setups, are worth it...
I have had the first 2 setups and am running the 248-232 for my personal preference...
Its very simple to do and I have given a step by step to other members (could possibly find one in a search). One of wich killed her engine because she didnt ask for the torque specs I said I would give her, but if you need them I have them...
Its really simple and hassle free if you do a few tricks and take your time. Hell if you lived around here I would do it, and for a hell of alot less then 70$ x listed job time hehe
I have had the first 2 setups and am running the 248-232 for my personal preference...
Its very simple to do and I have given a step by step to other members (could possibly find one in a search). One of wich killed her engine because she didnt ask for the torque specs I said I would give her, but if you need them I have them...
Its really simple and hassle free if you do a few tricks and take your time. Hell if you lived around here I would do it, and for a hell of alot less then 70$ x listed job time hehe
100% grip is always faster than drift..
unless you need to drift to negotiate a extremly tight turn..ie rally racing
drifting is a very slow way of driving on a road race track.....
unless you need to drift to negotiate a extremly tight turn..ie rally racing
drifting is a very slow way of driving on a road race track.....
7thGear wrote:i was always under the impression that a perfect drift yeilds faster lap times than grip driving,
the immidiate side effect ofcoarse is greater tire wear, but thats why you reserve your drift moves for the last couple of laps.
no? myth or truth?
240sx's can also lift thier wheels if they are getting enough grip.... this picture is not even on a sharp auto-X wher it is very easy to lift wheels..this is on a 120kph sweeper...on a road race track..
jamie wrote:Hard suspension is great for high speed. For auto-x a little softer than that seems to work better. Helps load the outside tires and plant them. I'm working on softening up my front so i don't get as much push on the slow portions. In the high speed portions the car in great. The pic. I've included of the beemer ( which is bone stock) often posts FTD in stock catagories beating z-06s and the like. His softer suspension lets the weight transfer to the outside tires and plant 'em like a redwood. The inside front tire stays in the air though turn. Sickness. But then again he's a past national champ and about a bajillion times better driver than I am. Also the weight transfer doesn't have to be this exteme. Just an example. Darn beemers.They're as thick a flies here.
BTW got the Cendiv here in Milw. this weekend. Its gonna be great!