Track alignment settings

Post by **turtl631** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:05 am

Any suggestions for a good starting point for camber, caster and toe on the track for an S14 on sticky street tires? I was going to guess around 2.5 camber front, 1.5 rear; 0 toe front, 1/8" toe in rear; lotta front caster (6-8 positive).

YouTube · Post by **EZcheese15** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:01 pm

I don't really have a good idea, as I've never had an S14 on the track.

However, how do you plan to adjust the caster? Or do you mean camber?

Post by **turtl631** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:23 pm

Adjustable tension rods from SPL to adjust caster, camber plates on KTS coilover to adjust camber. Prolly have stock rear suspension for a while, then get all 3 arms from battle version when i save enough, just because its cheaper to get the package from them than to buy them individually from SPL.

YouTube · Post by **EZcheese15** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:25 pm

Well I am by no means a suspension guru, but I can't imagine 6-8 degrees of caster, even on a track. It seems to me that the stock caster settings would be most beneficial. Increasing the caster by that much seems like it would drive like a big chopper with a HUGE rake on the front. But who am I to guess.

Post by **swwifty** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:49 pm

thats a good starting point. It really depends on the track and conditions. I'd say between 4-6 degrees of caster would be good. No need to have excessive amounts of caster.

Post by **turtl631** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:20 pm

Hm, okay. I don't know a ton about caster; I do know that more increases steering effort, but too much can do weird things to handling in mid-turn. I think more also reduces the need for static camber by increasing the amount of camber gain under compression. Correct me if I'm wrong here though. And I'm still waiting for nismo freak or orion to chime in

Post by **ForsakenTH** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:44 pm

as quoted in GRM

"Increasing caster angle not only increases the self-centering action of the steering, but also the caster-incuced negative camber. This helps cornering in tight turns."

they dont make any mention of to what degree though. as far as camber they say about 2 to 3.

i dont know about on track but i know in auto-x toe out will also help turn in as well...on a track though i think i might ware your tires too fast.

Post by **turtl631** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:39 pm

I know drifters tend to go for max caster, like 8+ on S14s. Increasing camber gain seems like a definite plus: less static camber means more straightline (braking) grip.
Modified by turtl631 at 9:43 PM 8/11/2005

Post by **MY S14 SR20DET** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:34 pm

wtf are you talking about 8 degrees of camber!? 2.25 negative rear camber, 2.75 negative front camber, 0 toe front and rear, caster as much as you can. this is a good starting point. if you understeer a lot, go a little toe out in the rear. etc.

Post by **turtl631** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:35 am

typo, i meant casterthat should have been obvious if you had read the whole thread

Post by **MY S14 SR20DET** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:27 am

not that obvious you said camber 3 times

Post by **turtl631** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:42 am

I meant camber the second two times. When you increase caster you increase the amount of camber gained per set amount of suspension compression, thus allowing less static negative to achieve the same camber under compression. You also don't want camber when you are moving in a straight line; imagine braking under large amounts of negative camber- the insides of the front tires would get overutilized and heat up far more than the outsides, leading to odd behavior while cornering and uneven tire wear.

Post by **InsanityInc** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:57 pm

Why would you increase camber more in the front than rear? That will cause understeer.

Post by **swwifty** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:11 pm

actually you have it the other way around, more camber in the front will cause LESS understeer and MORE oversteer.

Post by **Nismo_Freak** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:45 pm

MY S14 SR20DET wrote:wtf are you talking about 8 degrees of camber!? 2.25 negative rear camber, 2.75 negative front camber, 0 toe front and rear, caster as much as you can. this is a good starting point. if you understeer a lot, go a little toe out in the rear. etc.

I ran about 2.75 deg. front - 2.5 deg. rear and the car was very neutral.

Tire temps were fairly average over the face of the tire. I was overdriving the car so it was hard to get a solid result.

As a starting point I'd go - 2.5 / - 2.5, 7.5 deg. caster, and 0 / 0 toe.

Take tire temps and that will help you bump your camber to the correct points.

The problem here is that 2 cars don't have the same driver, and the same setup so camber for one car might be 2 degs. and 3.25 for the other.

Some things you should invest in if you want fast times:

- Pyrometer (probe type, not the infrared one) - Chalk (you can chalk the sidewall of the tire and about 1" of the tread)- Pen & Paper- GOOD Air Pressure Gauge

Use the chalk to see how far you have gone on the tread surface, you can use this cheap method to eyeball your ideal camber setting.

Post by **turtl631** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:55 am

I've heard of the chalk thing for autoX. Actually, I tried that the one time I went, but I was on crap all seasons and it was mostly just to get an idea of how much they were rolling over. You recommend more camber than I expected in the rear, most of what I've read has been to use more camber in front. Then again, you have track experience, which is far more valuable than internet research.

Post by **j-z** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:32 pm

im running -1.5 camber up front, and -1 camber in the rear. it is the best ideal setting if you drive your car everyday. i have 7'' wide up front (205-50) and, 8'' wide (225-45) in the rear. this thing is ridiculous to drive now. i dont even have that good of tires either. while were on this subject... i just got some rear traction rods yesterday, and im wondering what would be a good place to start off setting this thing at.

Post by **Nismo_Freak** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:21 am

j-z wrote: and im wondering what would be a good place to start off setting this thing at.

Stock length, else you will have to get the car realigned because the toe will be off.

Post by **vvaffle** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:01 am

How does caster affect the inside tires in the turn. Is it opposite of the outside tires therefore decreasing the amount of camber, and if so, would this be a bad thing?

Post by **swwifty** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:24 am

it depends on which way your turning....

If you have a large amount of caster it could effect the outside of your tires, but thats only if your cornering at the limit all the time. Normal driving will not be effected by caster. In fact, if you have a large amount of negative camber and your car wanders a lot, putting in some positive caster will help the car be much more stable.

Post by **j-z** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:50 pm

im going to be getting the car aligned once i get my adjustable tie rod ends. so what is a good place to start out for the traction rods. also, what is an ideal setting for front caster on a daily driver/auto-x/track car?

Post by **swwifty** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:05 pm

j-z wrote:im going to be getting the car aligned once i get my adjustable tie rod ends. so what is a good place to start out for the traction rods. also, what is an ideal setting for front caster on a daily driver/auto-x/track car?

I have no idea where to start out on the traction rods. I've never used them. I would install them how they come, then take it to a alignment shop to get it down how you want.

I'd go with some settings like this.

Front

Camber: -2 degreesCaster: +3 degreesToe: 0 zero, or a hair out (helps turn in if you have some toe out, but can eat up your tires if you have a lot and daily drive a lot. Toe wears tires worse than camber)

Rear

Camber: -1.5 degreesCaster: no adjustment Toe: 0 zero, or a hair of toe in (this will help with rear end stability on corner exit)

These settings are really just good starting points. It really all depends on your driving style, tires, setup, etc, etc. I'd get a tire pressure gauge, and pyrometer to determine what your alignment settings need to be for a paticular track/scenario (autox, various tracks, etc).

Track alignment settings

Track alignment settings

Re: Track alignment settings (turtl631)

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Re: (InsanityInc)

Re: (MY S14 SR20DET)

Re: (turtl631)

Re: (j-z)

Re: (vvaffle)

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