I am rolling on the floor laughing at this 12 or 13 year old reference to today's POTUS candidates ... total coincidence!!
See totally-odd-ball-random-reference-i-am- ... 11331.html
Z
Totally odd-ball random reference - I am ROFL!
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telcoman
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Re: Totally odd-ball random reference - I am ROFL!
For those of us that take politics seriously, it is not funny that a person like Trump could possibly become POTUS.
Be careful what you wish for.
Telcoman
Be careful what you wish for.
Telcoman
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szh
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Re: Totally odd-ball random reference - I am ROFL!
I take politics very seriously indeed. The choices affect all of us.telcoman wrote:For those of us that take politics seriously, it is not funny that a person like Trump could possibly become POTUS.
Be careful what you wish for.
Telcoman
That is why I vote my conscience and for the best candidates ... not party lines with a "I am a ____".
Which is why, even though I am a registered Republican, I will definitely not vote for Trump. I have said that publicly before.
Hillary? I am probably not voting for her either ...
Z
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srellim234
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Re: Totally odd-ball random reference - I am ROFL!
There's a huge difference between taking politics seriously with a thoughtful and reasoned approach as opposed to taking politics seriously by blindly following a particular party at all costs.
No party is correct all of the time; these days neither major party is correct even a majority of the time. Both should be replaced by three parties - conservative, liberal and centrist.
No party is correct all of the time; these days neither major party is correct even a majority of the time. Both should be replaced by three parties - conservative, liberal and centrist.
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szh
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Re: Totally odd-ball random reference - I am ROFL!
Agreed!
We have become quite dysfunctional in politics because we (the people) and they (the politicians) seem to have knee-jerk, party-line reactions to issues ... without thinking through what is best for the country and our people.
We elect people to represent us, since we cannot be queried for each and every decision that faces governments. We have to be able to trust them and hope they will do the right thing.
After elections are over, if the motivations are right, and I can trust that the person making the decision is voting their conscience and doing what is right, I will reluctantly accept the outcome of a specific item, even if I don't agree with the specific way it goes.
My problem is that I cannot trust many of them anymore to do anything other than think party-line ... no compromise, no "what is best for our country" thinking.
I recently saw a video of Governor Kasich at the White House. I think he said it well: http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavli ... y-n2219175 ... see his comments from 14:20 on to about 15:40.
And his responses to the next two questions ... is very well done! Both in terms of the sillinesses being demonstrated by both major parties, and the media's role in it.
Z
We have become quite dysfunctional in politics because we (the people) and they (the politicians) seem to have knee-jerk, party-line reactions to issues ... without thinking through what is best for the country and our people.
We elect people to represent us, since we cannot be queried for each and every decision that faces governments. We have to be able to trust them and hope they will do the right thing.
After elections are over, if the motivations are right, and I can trust that the person making the decision is voting their conscience and doing what is right, I will reluctantly accept the outcome of a specific item, even if I don't agree with the specific way it goes.
My problem is that I cannot trust many of them anymore to do anything other than think party-line ... no compromise, no "what is best for our country" thinking.
I recently saw a video of Governor Kasich at the White House. I think he said it well: http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavli ... y-n2219175 ... see his comments from 14:20 on to about 15:40.
And his responses to the next two questions ... is very well done! Both in terms of the sillinesses being demonstrated by both major parties, and the media's role in it.
Z
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telcoman
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Re: Totally odd-ball random reference - I am ROFL!
Paul Krugman not only writes very well, but he writes better than I
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/19/opini ... ef=opinion
In case you are unable to read his column because you are not a subscriber you can read it below
Vote as if It Matters
[Paul Krugman]
Paul Krugman SEPT. 19, 2016
"Does it make sense to vote for Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate for president? Sure, as long as you believe two things. First, you have to believe that it makes no difference at all whether Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump moves into the White House — because one of them will. Second, you have to believe that America will be better off in the long run if we eliminate environmental regulation, abolish the income tax, do away with public schools, and dismantle Social Security and Medicare — which is what the Libertarian platform calls for.
But do 29 percent of Americans between 18 and 34 believe these things? I doubt it. Yet that, according to a recent Quinnipiac poll, is the share of millennial voters who say that they would vote for Mr. Johnson if the election took place now. And the preponderance of young Americans who say they’ll back Mr. Johnson or Jill Stein, the Green Party nominee, appear to be citizens who would support Mrs. Clinton in a two-way race; including the minor party candidates cuts her margin among young voters from 21 points to just 5.
So I’d like to make a plea to young Americans: your vote matters, so please take it seriously.
Why are minor candidates seemingly drawing so much support this year? Very little of it, I suspect, reflects support for their policy positions. How many people have actually read the Libertarian platform? But if you’re thinking of voting Johnson, you really should. It’s a remarkable document.
As I said, it calls for abolition of the income tax and the privatization of almost everything the government does, including education. “We would restore authority to parents to determine the education of their children, without interference from government.” And if parents don’t want their children educated, or want them indoctrinated in a cult, or put them to work in a sweatshop instead of learning to read? Not our problem.
What really struck me, however, was what the platform says about the environment. It opposes any kind of regulation; instead, it argues that we can rely on the courts. Is a giant corporation poisoning the air you breathe or the water you drink? Just sue: “Where damages can be proven and quantified in a court of law, restitution to the injured parties must be required.” Ordinary citizens against teams of high-priced corporate lawyers — what could go wrong?
It’s really hard to believe that young voters who supported Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primary think any of this is a good idea. But Mr. Johnson and Ms. Stein have received essentially no media scrutiny, so that voters have no idea what they stand for. And their parties’ names sound nice: who among us is against liberty? The truth, that the Libertarian Party essentially stands for a return to all the worst abuses of the Gilded Age, is not out there.
Meanwhile, of course, it does make a huge difference which of the two realistic prospects for the presidency wins, and not just because of the difference in their temperaments and the degree to which they respect or have contempt for democratic norms. Their policy positions are drastically different, too.
True, much of what Mr. Trump says is incoherent: in his policy proposals, trillion dollar tax breaks are here today, gone tomorrow, back the day after. But anyone who calls him a “populist” isn’t looking at the general thrust of his ideas, or at whom he has chosen as economic advisers. Mr. Trump’s brain trust, such as it is, is composed of hard-line, right-wing supply-siders — whom even Republican economists have called “charlatans and cranks” — for whom low taxes on the rich are the overwhelming priority.
Meanwhile, Mrs. Clinton has staked out the most progressive policy positions ever advocated by a presidential candidate. There’s no reason to believe that these positions are insincere, that she would revert to 1990s policies in office: What some are now calling the “new liberal economics” has sunk deep roots in the Democratic Party, and dominates the ranks of Mrs. Clinton’s advisers.
Now, maybe you don’t care. Maybe you consider center-left policies just as bad as hard-right policies. And maybe you have somehow managed to reconcile that disdain with tolerance for libertarian free-market mania. If so, by all means vote for Mr. Johnson.
But don’t vote for a minor-party candidate to make a statement. Nobody cares.
Remember, George W. Bush lost the popular vote in 2000, but somehow ended up in the White House anyway in part thanks to the Nader vote — and nonetheless proceeded to govern as if he had won a landslide. Can you really imagine a triumphant Mr. Trump showing restraint out of respect for all those libertarian votes?
Your vote matters, and you should act accordingly — which means thinking seriously about what you want to see happen to America."
Read my blog, The Conscience of a Liberal, and follow me on Twitter, @PaulKrugman.
Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook and Twitter (@NYTopinion), and sign up for the Opinion Today newsletter.
How did the water in Flint become poisoned?
Think about that prior to casting your vote.
Which political party was responsible and what was the reason that it occurred?
Would you prefer a similar poisoning of your water where you live?
A vote/election for Trump and his ideas could produce a similar result for you.
Former republican governor Rick Perry was for eliminating the EPA
Think carefully before you cast your vote
Telcoman
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/19/opini ... ef=opinion
In case you are unable to read his column because you are not a subscriber you can read it below
Vote as if It Matters
[Paul Krugman]
Paul Krugman SEPT. 19, 2016
"Does it make sense to vote for Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate for president? Sure, as long as you believe two things. First, you have to believe that it makes no difference at all whether Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump moves into the White House — because one of them will. Second, you have to believe that America will be better off in the long run if we eliminate environmental regulation, abolish the income tax, do away with public schools, and dismantle Social Security and Medicare — which is what the Libertarian platform calls for.
But do 29 percent of Americans between 18 and 34 believe these things? I doubt it. Yet that, according to a recent Quinnipiac poll, is the share of millennial voters who say that they would vote for Mr. Johnson if the election took place now. And the preponderance of young Americans who say they’ll back Mr. Johnson or Jill Stein, the Green Party nominee, appear to be citizens who would support Mrs. Clinton in a two-way race; including the minor party candidates cuts her margin among young voters from 21 points to just 5.
So I’d like to make a plea to young Americans: your vote matters, so please take it seriously.
Why are minor candidates seemingly drawing so much support this year? Very little of it, I suspect, reflects support for their policy positions. How many people have actually read the Libertarian platform? But if you’re thinking of voting Johnson, you really should. It’s a remarkable document.
As I said, it calls for abolition of the income tax and the privatization of almost everything the government does, including education. “We would restore authority to parents to determine the education of their children, without interference from government.” And if parents don’t want their children educated, or want them indoctrinated in a cult, or put them to work in a sweatshop instead of learning to read? Not our problem.
What really struck me, however, was what the platform says about the environment. It opposes any kind of regulation; instead, it argues that we can rely on the courts. Is a giant corporation poisoning the air you breathe or the water you drink? Just sue: “Where damages can be proven and quantified in a court of law, restitution to the injured parties must be required.” Ordinary citizens against teams of high-priced corporate lawyers — what could go wrong?
It’s really hard to believe that young voters who supported Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primary think any of this is a good idea. But Mr. Johnson and Ms. Stein have received essentially no media scrutiny, so that voters have no idea what they stand for. And their parties’ names sound nice: who among us is against liberty? The truth, that the Libertarian Party essentially stands for a return to all the worst abuses of the Gilded Age, is not out there.
Meanwhile, of course, it does make a huge difference which of the two realistic prospects for the presidency wins, and not just because of the difference in their temperaments and the degree to which they respect or have contempt for democratic norms. Their policy positions are drastically different, too.
True, much of what Mr. Trump says is incoherent: in his policy proposals, trillion dollar tax breaks are here today, gone tomorrow, back the day after. But anyone who calls him a “populist” isn’t looking at the general thrust of his ideas, or at whom he has chosen as economic advisers. Mr. Trump’s brain trust, such as it is, is composed of hard-line, right-wing supply-siders — whom even Republican economists have called “charlatans and cranks” — for whom low taxes on the rich are the overwhelming priority.
Meanwhile, Mrs. Clinton has staked out the most progressive policy positions ever advocated by a presidential candidate. There’s no reason to believe that these positions are insincere, that she would revert to 1990s policies in office: What some are now calling the “new liberal economics” has sunk deep roots in the Democratic Party, and dominates the ranks of Mrs. Clinton’s advisers.
Now, maybe you don’t care. Maybe you consider center-left policies just as bad as hard-right policies. And maybe you have somehow managed to reconcile that disdain with tolerance for libertarian free-market mania. If so, by all means vote for Mr. Johnson.
But don’t vote for a minor-party candidate to make a statement. Nobody cares.
Remember, George W. Bush lost the popular vote in 2000, but somehow ended up in the White House anyway in part thanks to the Nader vote — and nonetheless proceeded to govern as if he had won a landslide. Can you really imagine a triumphant Mr. Trump showing restraint out of respect for all those libertarian votes?
Your vote matters, and you should act accordingly — which means thinking seriously about what you want to see happen to America."
Read my blog, The Conscience of a Liberal, and follow me on Twitter, @PaulKrugman.
Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook and Twitter (@NYTopinion), and sign up for the Opinion Today newsletter.
How did the water in Flint become poisoned?
Think about that prior to casting your vote.
Which political party was responsible and what was the reason that it occurred?
Would you prefer a similar poisoning of your water where you live?
A vote/election for Trump and his ideas could produce a similar result for you.
Former republican governor Rick Perry was for eliminating the EPA
Think carefully before you cast your vote
Telcoman
-
srellim234
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Re: Totally odd-ball random reference - I am ROFL!
I admit Clinton will make a better President than Trump which is one reason I haven't committed to voting for anyone at this point. Krugman misses a couple of key points though, one hugely important to me as a human being and one hugely important to the case of voting for Clinton.
Important to me is my integrity as a human being and voter. I pride myself on voting FOR the candidate who most closely aligns with all of the policies I believe in. I detest the thoughts of spending my vote on someone I view as a corrupt liar which pretty well describes every Republican and Democrat nationwide at this point. That means I will have to go deeper than the top four candidates to maintain my integrity.
What Krugman importantly misses as part of his Clinton argument is the necessity of keeping a divided government. A Trump presidency will most likely mean the Republicans will dominate all three branches of the federal government. That will allow the Republicans to run rampant over the American people in the process. With the presidency, both houses of Congress and the Supreme Court on their side after another Republican court pick they will continue trying to replace things nationally with an oligarchy featuring a Christian version of Sharia law. Individual civil rights and the middle class will be effectively gone for decades.
This election is a horrible one for those of us who are independents.
Important to me is my integrity as a human being and voter. I pride myself on voting FOR the candidate who most closely aligns with all of the policies I believe in. I detest the thoughts of spending my vote on someone I view as a corrupt liar which pretty well describes every Republican and Democrat nationwide at this point. That means I will have to go deeper than the top four candidates to maintain my integrity.
What Krugman importantly misses as part of his Clinton argument is the necessity of keeping a divided government. A Trump presidency will most likely mean the Republicans will dominate all three branches of the federal government. That will allow the Republicans to run rampant over the American people in the process. With the presidency, both houses of Congress and the Supreme Court on their side after another Republican court pick they will continue trying to replace things nationally with an oligarchy featuring a Christian version of Sharia law. Individual civil rights and the middle class will be effectively gone for decades.
This election is a horrible one for those of us who are independents.
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szh
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Re: Totally odd-ball random reference - I am ROFL!
Yeah ...srellim234 wrote:This election is a horrible one for those of us who are independents.
And rational thinkers too. I am registered Republican, but have always been more centrist than that. I lean very left on social issues, and very right on fiscal issues.
Toughest year for voting since the year I became eligible to vote (1984) when I became a US citizen ...
Z
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telcoman
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Re: Totally odd-ball random reference - I am ROFL!
The last 3rd party candidate gave us George Bush by a 587 vote margin in Florida.
Johnson and Weld should drop out
Telcoman
Johnson and Weld should drop out
Telcoman
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telcoman
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Re: Totally odd-ball random reference - I am ROFL!
And as for Trump
Trump used $258,000 from his charity to settle legal problems
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... li=BBnb7Kz
Telcoman
Trump used $258,000 from his charity to settle legal problems
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... li=BBnb7Kz
Telcoman
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srellim234
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Re: Totally odd-ball random reference - I am ROFL!
Don't blame that on a third party candidate. Blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the Republican Party who nominated Bush in the first place. Secondary blame rests with the Democratic Party who failed to put up a strong enough candidate and campaign to defeat him.telcoman wrote:The last 3rd party candidate gave us George Bush by a 587 vote margin in Florida.
Johnson and Weld should drop out
Telcoman
If either major party was representing the majority of American citizens a third party candidate wouldn't be able to affect the outcome of an election.
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szh
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Re: Totally odd-ball random reference - I am ROFL!
Trump lied to the Republican Party folks to get himself nominated: http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-je ... ing-502144
And he continues to lie ... every 5 minutes according to the video on this page: http://www.vox.com/2016/8/29/12691276/t ... -flop-flop
Sigh ... I truly wish that Jeb Bush had made it ... even my Democrat wife was in his camp and was saddened when he left the race! Whoa. Jeb would have won easily against Hillary.
Z
And he continues to lie ... every 5 minutes according to the video on this page: http://www.vox.com/2016/8/29/12691276/t ... -flop-flop
Sigh ... I truly wish that Jeb Bush had made it ... even my Democrat wife was in his camp and was saddened when he left the race! Whoa. Jeb would have won easily against Hillary.
Z
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srellim234
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Re: Totally odd-ball random reference - I am ROFL!
Jeb would have been a lot better than George the idiot in 2000. Now, however, it would come back to what I alluded to earlier. Any Republican is going to deliver control of all three branches of the federal government into the hands of a single party dedicated to cronyism, greed and the removal of individual civil rights in favor of corporate rights. The Republicans also stand for passing a Christian version of Sharia law in this country. Jeb wouldn't stop that.
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