Tokico Blue Struts....Rock!

[96'er]

I spent 4 hours today replacing the stock 100K mile struts with new Tokico Blue struts and rubber hardware and what a difference new struts make with the overall handling of the car.

The car has always wallowed around but the new struts have blown a breath of fresh air into this car. Along with the struts I have a Jeff Williams strut brace in front.

Can the 1996 Q be fitted with a rear stabilizer bar to help minimize rear body roll?

If anyone is interested, this is who I bought my struts from on Ebay and they have the best price for 4 Tokico struts online, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem

[qship96]

Fantastic! What other parts did you replace besides the basic shocks themselves? bushings,boots,mounts?

[TBrack]

sure hope you gave her some new dust boots!!

[Q45tech]

Yes all 90-96 Q have holes for a rear sway bar...............the optimum is the 20mm rear bar for a Q45a, which increases rear roll resistances from 120 to 150-160 lbs/inch.........depending on rubber bushings age and firmness.

Michelin Exalto in 225/60/15 will be the optimum:http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...A%2FS.

The front sway bar at 29mm is too stiff to cause extra understeer. If you are a perfectionist a 28mm Q45a can be found at junk yard.............this bar is 13% softer than 29mm bar and further shifts stiffness ratio more rearwards acting like rear bar is even thicker.........by 6.5%.

Be sure to measure accurately with digital gauge as 28 vs 29 cannot be eyeballed and there is a 15.9mm rear bar used on Q45t car which is not nearly enough [without the whole t package].

All this has been PROVEN on multidozens of retrofits for 15 years..........you will think you have a brand new sports car compared to oem.

BUT AGAIN TIRES are 90% of equation, fine tuning chassis cannot gain much 2-3% improvement vs sloppy vs excellant tires 10%.

[Q45tech]

My first mod back in 1994 was Eibach springs, Tokico blues, and the sway bars as described above..................they are all still on my Q 265,000 miles later of course new shocks every 4 years or 60k has been the norm with new boots and bushings.

I believe this is one of the main reasons I've kept the Q so long the nearly ideal handling in even bad weather.................a truely transformed vehicle compared to new.

But then over years I've replaced every single suspension component front and rear including subframe, hubs, and arms, wheel bearings everything except brake calipers which I have rebuilt numerous times.

To act like new parts need to be near new not 150k worn and bent.

[alexander]

So if I put these new blue struts on my now great performing '96 Q45 will the ride be so stiff that I will need a new tailbone while riding on these God awful streets of San francisco.I was loaned a G35 while my Q was being Motorvac and my tailbone still aches from that suspension.The Q waddles but so nicely

[silver2k2]

My first mod back in 1994 was Eibach springs, Tokico blues, and the sway bars as described above

That is exactly the same setup I am running and I concur the handling is very good

[96'er]

Along with the struts I replaces the boots and rubber on the fronts.

So Q45Tech are you saying a 20mm or 28 mm rear sway bar off a Q45a will work for my Q?

Also, I am running Goodyear Triple Tread tires on the car.

[qship96]

Along with the struts I replaces the boots and rubber on the fronts.

So Q45Tech are you saying a 20mm or 28 mm rear sway bar off a Q45a will work for my Q?

Also, I am running Goodyear Triple Tread tires on the car.

Dont even bother with sway bars until you replace those rim protectors,I mean tires first-Aqua,tripple,double whatever tread tires ARE NOT SUITABLE for a sedatly driven Q,much less one you have any interest in modifing to handle better than stock!

[elwesso]

honestly I dont think any 15in tires are adequate performance tires. 15in wheels are only good for winter tires... Get a set of 16s or 17s for summer tires and feel the difference...

I scare people in my Q, and i dont usually push it that hard.

[qship96]

Wes,I bet you scared more people with those Cooper Lifeliners way back in the old days!

[elwesso]

So true.. What was even scarier is when I saw them AGAIN on Jesda's Q about 20k miles later... intensely bald..

I can remember going around this one corner on my way to work in my old Q understeering around the entire corner at about 40. I take the same corner in my current Q at about 50 going sideways if I want to...

I cant stress how important tires are.. Just remember, all season tires = compromised performance for all seasons...

Even the lower end of summer tires will be better than all seasons, and winter tires are pretty cheap...

[Q45tech]

Tires are always 90% of equation with the suspension being 10%.

Impossible to improve a brand new oem tired and suspensioned much beyond 3%, now a worn out worthless suspension can obviously be improved 13%.

Changing the load [swaybars] on tires by 40 lbs x 3" or 120 lbs, when stock they might peak at 1500 pounds doesn't gain the simple math's 8% but something like 1/2 to a third..................tires are not linear once you exceed 0.7G.

[AlabamaDan]

Hard to imagine that 1mm difference in the front sway can make that much difference. What about running the stock front and a rear sway off a touring model. Better than no rear sway right? Easier to find.

[Q45tech]

If you find a Q45a both bars are easy, if you buy new the 20mm rear is cost effective:28/29= 0.9655 take ^4 = 0.866994 or 13% less stiff correct for spring ratio 55/45.

Based on stiffness changes alone, the rear is 2.46 x more cost effective than changing the front BUT if you want the BEST you want the best, lots of citizens here whose standards are lower.

Same with Tires they equate cost with benefit and Michelin may cost 50% more for 10% better.

Remember the sway bar is in parallel with spring and < stiff than spring so the TOTAL front stiffness declines by half [the 13%] or less.

5-6% less understeer is feelable, after all the usual understeer is less than 45 degrees [1/8 turn] of steering wheel at its worst.

[Q45tech]

The touring rear bar at 15.9mm is 60 % less stiff than the 20mm or about 16 lb/in.Why the touring front is also 28mm vs 29mm standard....it takes the front -6% and the rear +13% to get to 19% change vs -6+ [+32] = 38% change

If you find a Q45a both bars are easy, if you buy new the 20mm rear is cost effective:28/29= 0.9655 take ^4 = 0.866994 or 13% less stiff correct for spring ratio 55/45.

Based on stiffness changes alone, the rear is 2.46 x more cost effective than changing the front BUT if you want the BEST you want the best, lots of citizens here whose standards are lower.

Same with Tires they equate cost with benefit and Michelin may cost 50% more for 10% better.

Remember the sway bar is in parallel with spring and < stiff than spring so the TOTAL front stiffness declines by half [the 13%] or less.

5-6% less understeer is feelable, after all the usual understeer is less than 45 degrees [1/8 turn] of steering wheel at its worst.

I'm not sure if just adding a 15.9mm rear bar would be feelable to average driver as the rear body roll would just be reduced by 8% in 3".....1/4" vs 1/2"-3/4" with the 20mm bar.

I run Eibach so the bar is much much less than the springs especially after body has rolled 2" and the really stiff part of springs comes in. Where the springs are 5 x stiffer than the bar vs first inch of body roll where the springs are only 3 x stiffer than bar.

This non linear rear is tricky to learn to adapt to a smooth driving style especially in wet/ice/snow.....................I have a little card I read to remind me that I better be good and SMOOTH when the weather is bad.

[maxnix]

So Q45Tech are you saying a 20mm or 28 mm rear sway bar off a Q45a will work for my Q?

Also, I am running Goodyear Triple Tread tires on the car.

20 mm rear, 28 mm front.

Egads! Save up some money for real tires! At 740 UTQG, they are billiard balls!

[AlabamaDan]

Ah, I just let a Q45t get gone and now I learn the front sway would have been good better than mine. Something else to add to my list.

[JohnPa]

Yes all 90-96 Q have holes for a rear sway bar...............the optimum is the 20mm rear bar for a Q45a, which increases rear roll resistances from 120 to 150-160 lbs/inch.........depending on rubber bushings age and firmness.

The front sway bar at 29mm is too stiff to cause extra understeer. If you are a perfectionist a 28mm Q45a can be found at junk yard.............this bar is 13% softer than 29mm bar and further shifts stiffness ratio more rearwards acting like rear bar is even thicker.........by 6.5%.

OK, so what's the best combination of sway bars for a 90 Q45t? I am currently running the stock t bars with new bushings, but I know the rear bar is smaller than the Q45a bar, and I don't know the diameter of the front Q45t bar. Any opinions gladly acknowledged!

[maxnix]

Add rear a bar and new bushings and end link rubber.

[JohnPa]

Thanks for the quick response. My problem is that the 't' already has a rear bar, but I believe it is smaller than the 'a' bar. Sooo, should I leave the 't' bar in place or go for an 'a' bar. Same question for the front bar.

[Q45tech]

Depends on how new and perfect the T system is whether a rear 20mm might be overkill.

The problem is the Q was designed to use the Michelin XGTV Sport tire which is no longer available. No available tire in 15" comes even close so the system is not working as designed, now.

Are you still running oem forged T wheels?

[Haitian_King]

Wow. I can't even begin to understand all the suspension talk. When it comes time to do mine, I'm just going to drop my car off with one of you, hand you a briefcase of money, and tel you I'll be back in a day or two to pick up my Q. Just do with it what you did to yours.

I'm going to need to buy tires come spring/early summer. I want new wheels so I'l just go get some tires too.

[JohnPa]

Depends on how new and perfect the T system is whether a rear 20mm might be overkill.

The problem is the Q was designed to use the Michelin XGTV Sport tire which is no longer available. No available tire in 15" comes even close so the system is not working as designed, now.

Are you still running oem forged T wheels?

I have the forged T wheels which a previous owner had chromed, but they are in storage. I like them, but I upgraded to the larger brakes on the 97-01 Q, so I can't use 15" wheels anymore due to clearance problems. So, I went with the 97-01 Q wheels in 16X7 size. Finding a good tire for the extra weight of the earlier Q is another, separate problem.

I put new factory bushing/links on both the front and rear T sway bars. I actually have a used rear A bar, but I wanted to check with you before I installed it. My past experience with other cars is that you can over compensate with too stiff a rear setup. Your opinion matters a lot to me, so thanks for responding

[maxnix]

Depends on youur reflexes and your tolerance of understeer.

The a bar in the rear is best if you know your limits and the rest of the suspension and tires are up to snuff.

[JohnPa]

Depends on youur reflexes and your tolerance of understeer.

The a bar in the rear is best if you know your limits and the rest of the suspension and tires are up to snuff.

I think I'll just go ahead and install it and see if I can tell the difference. I can always switch back; this is one thiong that's relatively easy to do.

Hey............Does everyone use OEM rubber parts on their bars????