Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

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sergofast
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Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby sergofast » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:50 am

Hey guys - thought everyone would enjoy a play by play on my Titan VK56DE swap into the Fluid Motor Union M45 (2006).

Long story short...car bottomed out on a major road hazard and cracked the oil pan....and engines without oil equal carnage.

The Goal:
2012 Titan VK56DE with 8300 miles
JWT Cams and springs (TBD - likely C8/S2 or some other combination)
Utilize Infiniti M45 ECU with Uprev to tune to larger engine
M45 VIAS manifold with MA Motorsports VK56 to Vk45 intake manifold adaptors.
102mm Nick Williams Throttle Body
5" custom Aluminum intake
Retaining existing Long tube FMU 1.75" primary headers
Retaining existing FMU 2.5" stainless to 3" exhaust.

Trans:
Titan Bell housing
Titan Edge racing High stall
Trans-go Shift Kit
Tru-cool 40k trans cooler.

Ive got a bunch of photos - will update as I go along.

What will need to be done to get the VK56 in the M45:
Custom motor mounts
Custom oil pan
verify VTC cam timing is the same between both engines
Custom accessory mounts (must use the Titan accessories because the belt is a 7 rib belt).

Pics:
The Damage:
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Engine pull:
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Vk45 Re505A and Titan Bell housing- Fun fact - the Titan Bell housing is 5/8" longer and the engine will need to be mounted 5/8" higher to center the crank in the same spot as the VK45DE.

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Engine bracket fabrication and jig on VK45:

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VK56 w/ brackets coming to life:

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Biggest technical difference so far - The signal for the Cam Sensor will need to be inverted so that the pickup reads exactly the opposite for the VVT (variable Valve Timing) on the intake cams.

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Cutting up the VK56 Titan oil pan housing - the sump needs to be moved to the front to clear the crossmember - much more to show here later:

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Last edited by sergofast on Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.


sergofast
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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby sergofast » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:51 am

Mod: update from Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:16 pm

Okay - so its been a LONG time since I made an update. So here goes...its in. It runs!

But before I get to the fun stuff - ill get technical. Lets start with the oil pan. The single most pain in the a$$ part that consumed the most time....seriously - this thing was a lot of work.

Cutting off the bottom half of the OEM Titan pan:
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Fabrication begining:
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Measure twice....fabricate once (in theory):
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Nearly done! Here you can see the baffles installed with doors to hold the oil at the pump pickup in the corners:
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Finished Windage tray and crank scraper (yes it clears - no I didnt blow up my motor on first fire up):
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Test fit:
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Joe working his magic.....professional Submarine welder is helpful!
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Final touch....the dip stick (and you can see the accessory mounts - more on that later):
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sergofast
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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby sergofast » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:51 am

Mod: update from Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:43 pm

MOTOR MOUNTS:


I fabricated mounts that would allow the stock M45 motor mounts to be used:

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Here was the problem with this - the headers were way to close to the frame rails and when the motor twist under load it was going to hit...so it was back to the drawing board (also youll noticed no valve covers - thats because the motor wont slide in with them installed :lolling: ):

For those of you wondering - Titan JBA shorty headers would have much more clearance than this - I was limited because I am hard headed and wanted to make these ultra sweet FMU headers work on the car.....so I clearanced the frame rail with a BFH as soon as I pulled the motor (BFH = Big Fing Hammer).

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Made a fixture:
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Test fit:
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Measure twice (Doug - @Cantgetryte - CGR tuning.....supervising):
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and powder coat! ES 2" Bushings - 4130 Chromoly tubing - it wont rock like the OEM ones now - BC #RaceKAR:

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sergofast
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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby sergofast » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:51 am

Mod: update from Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:28 pm

Accessories:

This part.....sucked - a lot of trial and error. The challenge is the Power steering pump. On the titan motor its at the top of the motor on the passenger side. Which would work on the M45 If i took out a headlight and never turned left along with cutting a hole in the hood. :confused:

The other challenge is the belt is a 7 rib vs. the 6 rib. Now a normal person would just run a 6 rib and keep all the m45 accessories. yeah...guess what route I chose. 7 rib. Why - because belt driven supercharge baby :woot: (not now - later).

With this came a whole list of challenges. most were easy (see below) - the biggest challenge was the AC compressor. You cannot simply run a Titan compressor on a M45. The M45 compressor is a variable unit that adjust as needed based on load - the Titan one is a simple on/off (thats what the extra wire coming out of your compressor does and given this is the first time this swap had been attempted, I didnt want to wrestle with the challenge of the climate control going on the fritz or any other electrical unknowns). What I found is that the 09 m35 has a compressor that is 7 rib - YES - challenge solved. Nope - not really. The M35 wont work because it doesnt bolt up correctly (and there was no way I was going to modify the already completed oil pan for a dumb ac compressor missing a rib). So - after little research and after examining the m35 compressor, Titan compressor, and M45 compressor along with a fair share of Googling and a hunch - I started pulling compressor pulleys off and made a discovery. The 7 rib clutch/pulley will fit on the M45 compressor! Now the challenge......where do I buy just that part (ebay - more googling - 02-06 3.5 Altima clutch/pulley - Bingo)!

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Modified Titan Alternator/PS bracket and custom angled bracket with spacer for the M45 power steering bracket. You can see where I welded a tab to secure the alternator on one side and on the other to give an extra support bracket that bolts to the oil pan.

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Stock unmodified titan Power steering/alternator bracket for comparisson:
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Final belt routing (that is a 7 rib belt from a 93 Dodge ram pickup):
Notice the extra Idler pulley that runs from the Alternator bracket to the timing cover. I had to install this so the belt would clear the tensioner.
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So in conclusion we are running the following accessories:
  • M45 Power Steering pump with a Titan pulley and I slightly bent the low pressure line to fit (get creative here)
  • M45 AC Compressor with 06 Altima 7 rib pulley/clutch - no mods to the way this mounts
  • Titan Alternator (although I may swap this back to the M45 alternator and swap the pulleys - I dont like how close the plug on the titan compressor is situated next to the frame rail - on the titan this plug is at 9 oclock and on the m45 its closer to 11 oclock/noon).
  • Extra Idler pulley with custom bracket
  • modified Titan Alternator bracket (Cut off the power steering portion).
  • Modified M45 Power Steering bracket with custom L bracket mount.
  • Titan Fan pulley (fan removed)
  • Titan Water pump & pulley
  • Titan Tensioner pullley
Finally - Powder coat it :) unfortunately - you cant see any of this once the motor is installed.... :bs:

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby sergofast » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:52 am

Mod: update from Mon Feb 13, 2018 12:26 am

JWT C8/C8 Cams


Yes - I did it :) Figured I never wanted to pull the motor out and the easiest time to do the cam install is while I had half the engine apart anyway. So :ohno:

With the headers, and exhaust system after a conversation with Nick at 5523 Motorsports who has built several VK56 motors along side Clark at JWT and helped with the R&D on the C9 cams for a bunch of race motors....C8/C8 cams were chosen. As youll see in the photos, in addition to the cams the rest of the combination is the adaption of the M45 VIAS dual runner manifold. The adapter plates necessary to mount the M45 manifold to the VK56 where orriginally a prototype part from JWT that MA Motorsports acquired during their stint supporting Chris Fosbergs VK56 powered 370z. Its also a common mod on the Titan's to run a LS3 90mm or Nick Williams 102mm Throttle body. Guess which one the M45 got :biggrin:

Bottom line - Clark at JWT and Nick at 5523 have not seen a VK56 with the potential of the modified M45 manifold along with the long tube 1 3/4" headers on a VK56 - They recommended this cam combo because it will maximize the mid-upper end of the RPM range (and lets be honest - with the Titan power band optimized for towing...Im okay if I lose a little down low because even with the lose thats in comparison to a Titan motor (which has more power/tq anyway in comparison to the VK45DE).

Cam Specs:

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Cam install - this was a challenge. You need new springs, but then the process goes as follows. 1. Install springs 2. put stock lifter buckets back 3. install new cams 4. measure lash between bucket and lobe 5. remove cams 6. install new size lifter bucket (after a simple addition/subtraction nightmare X 36 valves) 7. reinstall cams and all timing 8. re measure new lash between lobe/bucket 9. repeat steps 3-9 about 4500 times until you get the lash specs you need...... :whistle:

C8 Cams on top - stock cams on bottom.....look at them LOBES (actually its kind of hard to tell in this photo...but they are WAY bigger in person....pause:
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DLC Buckets (the darker one):
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Spring Install (Stock on top - Bottom is JWT springs/shim good for 9k RPM without valve float):
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Houston....we have a problem! The C8/C8 cams were too big for the heads. so.....after all the installation and getting everything perfect. out everything came and some very creative and tedious work went into clearancing while carefully blowing away aluminum shards so I dont gernade my low mileage motor.

Careful preparation.....and a dremel
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Before:
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After:
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Test fitting the M45 manifold with the Nick Williams 102mm TB (4" TB) in the middle of one of the many install/removal of the cams and timing:
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VK45 manifold adaptors from MA Motorsports/Predrag on the Titan forums:
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M45 manifold modification...its a wee bit bigger :)
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4" intake fabrication:
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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby sergofast » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:52 am

Reserving

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby sergofast » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:53 am

Reserving

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby EdBwoy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:08 pm

Holy smokes! This is a project that has my attention. Looks like a fun product is gonna be prowling the streets soon. With the prices these VK45DEs go for, I bet you can go a few different routes for a more modest cost.

Any idea what hp/torque numbers are feasible from the VK56 + mod work? Also, since you had some exhaust goodies on the VK45DE, what numbers was it pushing above stock?

And I might need to look at the pics from a larger screen, but why does the cam signal need to be reversed?

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby sergofast » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:28 pm

EdBwoy wrote:Holy smokes! This is a project that has my attention. Looks like a fun product is gonna be prowling the streets soon. With the prices these VK45DEs go for, I bet you can go a few different routes for a more modest cost.

Any idea what hp/torque numbers are feasible from the VK56 + mod work? Also, since you had some exhaust goodies on the VK45DE, what numbers was it pushing above stock?

And I might need to look at the pics from a larger screen, but why does the cam signal need to be reversed?
You are absolutely correct on the cost of the VK45 engine - thats why Im going this route - for the cost of doing a stock rebuild...lets just say ill have a monster of a M45. The Titan motor with 8300 miles only cost $1700.00

I never got the VK45 dynoed but did have it street tuned. It was pretty quick and but still a big heavy car. The VK56 has about 50 additional ft/lbs more torque than a stock M45. WIth the dual runners in the VAIS intake combined with the headers I suspect It will wake up the 56 (titan motors tend to level out above 5500 rpm because of the long intake runners).

JWT believes it should really wake up with the headers, free flowing exhaust and the VIAS. What I do know is this....a Titan truck, with headers, a proper tune, better intake and c8/C8 cams was in the mid 12s (and its much heavier than our M45s) :)

Heres a video right after we tuned it VK45DE w/ Uprev tuned by UHR Performance:

Here are some additional pics of the cam sensor trigger wheel. Notice how the titan has 4 "prongs" and the M45 has 4 "grooves/notches" - in order to use the M45 ECU (with uprev of course), ive got to trick it into essentially reading the opposite "sex" of the sensor wheel. The ECU reads the "rise" and "fall" of the notches and needs to see the same signal to properly process where the cam rotation/advance is in relation to the crank rotation - the signal the ECU will see is exactly the opposite until I invert the signal.

VK56:
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VK45:
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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby EdBwoy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:27 pm

Makes sense. IIRC, the smooth circle is 0 volts and the m45 dips are like 5 volts. So the Titan bumps would read as -5 volts on the m45 ECU

Is it possible to just swap the signal plates?
I ask because I'm thinking the VTC sensor sees the cam differently than the camshaft position one and that would make the programming a little tricky?
Say the engine were a county fair: If I stand at the VTC I will be standing at the end of a ferris wheel seeing people going up and down in a line... if I stand at the camshaft one, then I'm looking at the circle of the ferris wheel seeing people going left to right.


Take that with a grain of salt though, don't let me start throwing wrenches in your works. I need to go home and verify with my parts engine

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby JoshTex » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:57 pm

Curious as a 5 year old!!

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby 1969honda » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:22 pm

Sub'd :mike

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby Ilya » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:54 pm

Very cool dude! Glad you came here to post it up.

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby cruzad3r » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:00 pm

you are my HERO!!!

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby bicsintegra » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:44 pm

OH DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby sergofast » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:13 pm

EdBwoy wrote:
Is it possible to just swap the signal plates?
I ask because I'm thinking the VTC sensor sees the cam differently than the camshaft position one and that would make the programming a little tricky

Unfortunately it is not (they are pressed on and the thought of trying to press that on in the exact same spot would be about as fun as chopping off my hand). The front timing chain covers are completely different. Actually. Nothing about the front cover is the same....I'm haveing to completely fabricate accessory brackets for the idler pulley, power steering and alternator.

With regards to the cam sensor, Nissan typically reuses the same cam sensor gears on multiple platforms but changed them for some reason on he vk45/56. What is unknown is if I can use the vk45 cam sprockets with sensor rings attached...but a simple inverter is likely easier.

Also what's happened is the deck height on the vk56 is 12mm taller. Now to compensate they have to add a link to the chain....and then to get it in alignment they rotated the VTC sensor location counter clockwise on the left and clockwise on the right....just so they could use the same cam sensor pickup wheel. in other words. Think of a clock (only referencing the left bank for this example) On the vk45 the sensor is at about 1 o'clock. On the vk56, the sensor is at about 12 o'clock.
Last edited by sergofast on Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby sergofast » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:17 pm

Test fit there motor with the headers today. It fit. AFTER I clearances the subframe with a BFH (big Fin Hammer)

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby FlawleZ » Mon May 08, 2017 4:49 am

This is awesome! Impressive effort and determination here to see this idea come through to fruition. Looking forward to seeing theveryone finished product.

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby sergofast » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:43 pm

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby sergofast » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:28 pm

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby nicenotrice » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:00 pm

Dude!!!!! This is amazing work!!! My M is getting up there in mileage. So I think after I finish Brakes (going akebono) and suspension (BC racing but still in the air about ruining the ride quality) next month, I would like to do either cams and Valves depending on engine condition, or an engine swap. Would all of these mods still be necessary if you went with a VK56VD? Its the same CC but are the dimensions different? Excuse my ignorance I do not know much about 5.6L's. Regardless cant wait to see this thing in the car! :D

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby sergofast » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:26 pm

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Last edited by sergofast on Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby sergofast » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:31 pm

nicenotrice wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:00 pm
Dude!!!!! This is amazing work!!! My M is getting up there in mileage. So I think after I finish Brakes (going akebono) and suspension (BC racing but still in the air about ruining the ride quality) next month, I would like to do either cams and Valves depending on engine condition, or an engine swap. Would all of these mods still be necessary if you went with a VK56VD? Its the same CC but are the dimensions different? Excuse my ignorance I do not know much about 5.6L's. Regardless cant wait to see this thing in the car! :D
Thank you. The VK56VD is not a reasonable swap into this platform. Reason being is it is a direct injection car and the electronics will not remotely align. The VK56DE works because as youll see in a few post - the electronics just match up :) All of the sensors are the same between motors so the ECU in you M45 doesnt know the difference (but it will need to be reprogrammed with Uprev to run properly).

Cams are fun - but ultra expensive on a VK45 - the valves are titanium and fragile once you remove the keepers so its recommend that you replace all 36 valves when doing cams on a VK45DE. This cost in addition to the buckets easily adds $1000 in parts (not to metion the labor to pull the heads (but if you are doing a motor refresh anyway.....

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby EdBwoy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:17 am

This is not child's play. Congratulations on the progress and thanks for sharing.
It's good to confirm that most things plug right up (with relocation of a couple of harnesses of course). You've gotta love Nissan for that.

What did you do for the cam signal for the time being?

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby sergofast » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:44 am

EdBwoy wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:17 am
This is not child's play. Congratulations on the progress and thanks for sharing.
It's good to confirm that most things plug right up (with relocation of a couple of harnesses of course). You've gotta love Nissan for that.

What did you do for the cam signal for the time being?
Thanks. So the funny thing is it fired right up and the Ecu didn’t even see a difference. We still haven’t 100% confirmed though.

Where we stand now is the car fires and drives but it needed to be reprogrammed with new parameters (the A/F was off and the trans had no idea what to do with the new torque and 3800 stall I put in it). So we drove the car 20 min down the road and then went to reprogram it with Uprev.

That’s where the most frustrating part of the swap has happened over the last 4 months. The car is just sitting. :( what happened is that when we try and flash the new parameters with uprev it bricks the Ecu. After the second time of sending it back to uprev to fix we put a halt on trying a third time. I believe I may have damaged something on the wiring harness that won’t let uprev run through it’s whole voodoo magic it doesn’t when flashing the Ecu.

The solution suggested was to do the program with a bench harness. BUT uprev has had the blasted thing on backorder for the last three month :/

At this point I’m feed up with waiting so I bought a new engine harness and am completely rewiring the engine bay, removing all aftermarket wiring and installing a big 3 and motor grounding kit. Then I’ll roll the dice and try to flash it a third time.

I’ll upload a video of the fire up later.

Please feel free to consolidate this thread. I tried to edit the reserve spots at the beginning but it wouldn’t let me.

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby EdBwoy » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:58 pm

sergofast wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:44 am
...
Please feel free to consolidate this thread. I tried to edit the reserve spots at the beginning but it wouldn’t let me.
DONE!

The forum has a timeout on posts for various reasons - integrity and honest record keeping being some of them (broad brush); but I moved some stuff around.

Good call on saving all those spots back there though. We can delete, but not create new posts. If you get to a point where integrating your new posts would jumble up the flow of communication, then just let any of the mods know and we'll see what we can do - or we'll just copy the posts into a new thread.

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby bamaballa205 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:26 pm

I'd been wanting to do this for a while now but didn't know where to start. My 4.5 has become possessed lately running great on some days and crap on the others. Cant sell it because the value has dropped and parts are hard to find.

Are there any kits out there yet for this swap?
& or SERGOFAST do you want to swap mine for me too :)!!??

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby Nelson Sandalwood » Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:10 pm

sergofast wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:52 am

Bottom line - Clark at JWT and Nick at 5523 have not seen a VK56 with the potential of the modified M45 manifold along with the long tube 1 3/4" headers on a VK56 - They recommended this cam combo because it will maximize the mid-upper end of the RPM range (and lets be honest - with the Titan power band optimized for towing...Im okay if I lose a little down low because even with the lose thats in comparison to a Titan motor (which has more power/tq anyway in comparison to the VK45DE).
How well do these JWT C8 work with the variable cam timing system?

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby Arlo » Thu May 02, 2019 1:20 pm

Nice work! Whats good fellas!!

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Re: Titan VK56DE Swap in progress - 06 Infiniti M45

Postby CarGuy87 » Tue May 07, 2019 8:48 am

OP can't wait to see updates!


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