This thread will eventually morph into a sticky for all the people who are new and want to learn to drift. I will organize it the best i can and give credit to everyone who contributes. i'll start with my favorite topic, its important to know how to grip drive well.
I have been around for a few years and done a small handful of drift events, more grip events over the years. One thing that i have learned from my own experience and watching friends is to be a good drifter you need to understand the basics of car control.
Drifting is an advanced driving technique that should not be tackled by someone who has never done anything more than drag racing before.
I cannot stress that enough. The BEST thing you can possibly do is get hooked up with your local sanctioning body ( http://www.nasaproracing.com http://www.scca.org ) and do a HPDE (high performance driver education) class at a major racetrack. They will sit you down and explain things like braking points, how to accelerate out of a corner, weight transfer, balance, track ediquite, look through a corner, bla bla etc etc. most importantly they will pair you with an instructor who will ride with you all day and give you pointers on how to find the racing line, when you should be braking, etc. this is the best first step to becoming a good drifter. You absolutely MUST understand how a car works while at the edge of its performance before you can attempt to drift. It also helps knowing how to find the line and such.
After you run a HPDE class the next step is to try to find a local drift organization. Almost every state has something going on monthly during the racing season wich is at all different parts of the year depending on where you live. This is important for 2 parts. 1) because it keeps you from doing it on the streets where bad things happen. 2) it will give you a chance to get feedback from more advanced drivers.
i will go back and edit for grammar and spelling later. ill also do a LSD writeup and such tommrow if i get bored haha.
Tips for newbies, contribute if you can!
Re: Tips for newbies, contribute if you can! (Kamin)
I wouldn't discourage anyone from drifting if they haven't participated in any other form of motorsport although driving school helps more than people realize. I would suggest to newb drifters to keep it legal! It's so much easier to learn and progress when you're not worrying about cops, pedestrians, parking curbs, ect. Organizations like DGTrials, SEDA, and TerTech (I only know the east coast events, sorry) offer a safe environment for people to learn with friendly staff and experienced drivers that are usually willing to help if asked. Oh and that's another thing...don't be afraid to ask for help. We all had to start from somewhere so don't get discouraged.
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Ender_Zero
- Posts: 620
- Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 9:56 pm
- Car: '03 Base Z, '91 S13 Coupe
Re:
well, id say the first thing youd want to learn (if you cant afford an instructor) is car control. ask someone you know who knows a guy whos dad owns a plant or building with a big parking lot if you and a few buddies can play with your cars. go on wet days and dry days. i started drifting in an RX7 that had only one good rotor and probably put out about 40hp at the most. i got it for free so i did what any respectable guy would do. go to an abandon parking lot (and this one was a weird cement/gravel parking lot, like made of small pebbles where some of them are in place and others are loose.) since my 88 rx7 happend to have an lsd, (it was a GXL for you former mazda guys) i got to have tons of fun. but enough about my experience, heres how to start out. try going in a tight cricle and go faster and faster till the rear begins to slide, and get a feel for how the car acts in a slide. then try things like intending to do a 90 degree turn sideways and also try 180s using the E-brake. i recently got to do a few successful 360s in my 240, but thats a little later on. set up a cone or two and make that the apex for your 90's ( used curbs since i didnt care about the car) and also if it ever ices over, go and have fun all night. (it only ices like once or twice a year here in texas) once you get a feel for your car, go to autoX events and learn some grip (you can do this before or after the parking lot.) after that, do what you will with your new skills.
BTW: im no expert and im still learning a great deal about car control and everything. do all these things with the mind set that what you are doing is semi dangerous and do it with common sense and try really hard to do it legally.
safe times and keep it sideways!~Ender
BTW: im no expert and im still learning a great deal about car control and everything. do all these things with the mind set that what you are doing is semi dangerous and do it with common sense and try really hard to do it legally.
safe times and keep it sideways!~Ender
Re: Re: (Ender_Zero)
im not saying its not possible to learn, im saying its about 08325-98720986349614 times easier once you know your car more. doing crap doughnuts in a parking lot dosent compare to something on track.
this is why for the circuit stuff we do in phoenix you MUST have completed a HPDE1 school before you are allowed out with the drift groups.
this isnt a discussion on 1 subject, lets see stuff like initiation techniques, LSD differences, suspension information, etc.
this is why for the circuit stuff we do in phoenix you MUST have completed a HPDE1 school before you are allowed out with the drift groups.
this isnt a discussion on 1 subject, lets see stuff like initiation techniques, LSD differences, suspension information, etc.
Re: Re: (Kamin)
ok nobody else wants to help the newbies i will.
initiation techniques:there are 6 basic techniques; power over, clutch kick, feint, shift lock, e-brake, braking drift.
here they are, starting with the most newbish ones first
Ebrake: This is pretty basic and should be a starting point for most newbies. turn the steering wheel into the corner, yank the ebrake quickly (just fast enough to get the rear wheels to lock, should be a quick up-down motion, dont hold it) mash the gas, let go of the steering wheel to get the rear to come out.
Clutch kick: just before your turn in point press the clutch all the way down, floor the gas, turn the wheel into the turn, before you get too high in RPM release the clutch quickly. stay on the gas to begin the slide be carefull tho, you have alot of rear end momentum with this one so it takes less throttle to bring the car to full lock.
Power over: this one wont work on low HP cars (works great for me ). you pretty much stand on the gas and turn the wheel. its a very easy initiation but alot of cars cant do it because they dont have the power/torque to break traction in the rear while moving.
Feint: this one is all about weight transfer (again, why its important to know the basics! why i say DO HPDE!). if you are going into a left turn you move down away from the racing line (left, way early), turn back into it (right), then at the turn in point turn the wheel twords the corner (left) then stand on the gas. the large, sudden weight transfer will overcome traction in the rear and cause it to begin to drift.
Shift Lock:this is like a clutch kick but instead of revving the engine you let go of the clutch. heading into a corner when downshifting for said corner instead of slowly releasing the clutch, or rev matching you release the clutch fast, turn into the corner while releasing the clutch then step on the gas. it shocks the rear wheels and drivetrain to slow them slower than the car is traveling then while traction is broken you stand on the gas to speed them up.
Braking Drift -Thanks to Liquidus
This one is tricky because it involves weight transfer to the front wheels. Getting the weight off of the rear wheels helps them be able to slide, but too strong of a transfer off of the rear and onto the front, while braking, and turning will cause the front tires to exceed their available grip and lose traction and get major understeer. Especially in cars without ABS, where it is easier to lock the front wheels.
When you come into the corner you need to be going too fast for it. You will be braking through part of the corner, so if you aren't going fast enough, you won't be able to drift. Let off of the gas and get onto the brake lightly while you turn in. This part takes major practice time. Too hard on the brake and you'll get understeer (braking and turning at the same time exceeds the tires limits). Too light on the brake and the weight transfer won't happen and you'll get understeer. This also depends on how sensitive your brakes are and if you have ABS.
Keep in mind right now you should have just entered the corner. As soon as you start to turn in you need to heel-and-toe downshift (maybe i'll make another post on how to do this), but instead of moving your foot back to the gas after the heel and toe blip keep it on the brake for an extra second. This is where the drift initiates. Remember, the amount of pressure you apply to the brake pedal is still critical, practice, practice, practice. Once the drift is initiated get back on the gas and start to countersteer to hold the drift through the corner.
This is more of a tip for moderate drifters, ones you can control a drift from pulling the ebrake or power over. But it's something i just recently learned to do so i thought while my mistakes and experiences were still fresh i would elaborate on your explanation.
so you have initiated, now what?just getting the rear end out is only half the battle. now you have to keep it there and not spin out. this is what I have found to work the best. take it as opinion only as it may not be the "correct" way to do any of it.
lets say you have clutch kicked in the middle of second gear for a standard corner. the kick starts to push the rear end out, you stand on the gas, now what? gently release your grip on the steering wheel letting the car take control of the steering. dont fully remove your hands but rather let the wheel slide through your hands. the rear of the car trying to move past the front will cause the steering wheel to spin faster than you can turn it. once it reaches full lock (you will know when it does ) let off the gas a little bit and turn back away from full lock a little. this will give you playing room if you need to twitch the wheel in eithre direction to help control the slide.
so now you are at full lock, probably full throttle. here comes the part that i cant explain its just something that comes with practice. you have to modulate the throttle. just staying at full throttle will cause the car to spin in most cases. so you need to feather and pump the gas to keep the rears spinning, but not loose control. im usually only at full throttle mid drift for a short period of time unless its a higher speed corner.
once you have control of the drift its time to start concentrating on the exit. check your line, and speed, make sure its safe (i.e. arent heading for a wall or off track) if everything looks ok let off the gas a little more and turn out of the slide. once you start to regain traction lay into the gas a little more to get your exit speeds up. it probably wasnt pretty, but its a drift.
now I am by no means an expert drifter, I have limited experience and still have a long way to go. so if i made errors or was flat out wrong on parts tell me. ill gladly fix anything.
initiation techniques:there are 6 basic techniques; power over, clutch kick, feint, shift lock, e-brake, braking drift.
here they are, starting with the most newbish ones first
Ebrake: This is pretty basic and should be a starting point for most newbies. turn the steering wheel into the corner, yank the ebrake quickly (just fast enough to get the rear wheels to lock, should be a quick up-down motion, dont hold it) mash the gas, let go of the steering wheel to get the rear to come out.
Clutch kick: just before your turn in point press the clutch all the way down, floor the gas, turn the wheel into the turn, before you get too high in RPM release the clutch quickly. stay on the gas to begin the slide be carefull tho, you have alot of rear end momentum with this one so it takes less throttle to bring the car to full lock.
Power over: this one wont work on low HP cars (works great for me ). you pretty much stand on the gas and turn the wheel. its a very easy initiation but alot of cars cant do it because they dont have the power/torque to break traction in the rear while moving.
Feint: this one is all about weight transfer (again, why its important to know the basics! why i say DO HPDE!). if you are going into a left turn you move down away from the racing line (left, way early), turn back into it (right), then at the turn in point turn the wheel twords the corner (left) then stand on the gas. the large, sudden weight transfer will overcome traction in the rear and cause it to begin to drift.
Shift Lock:this is like a clutch kick but instead of revving the engine you let go of the clutch. heading into a corner when downshifting for said corner instead of slowly releasing the clutch, or rev matching you release the clutch fast, turn into the corner while releasing the clutch then step on the gas. it shocks the rear wheels and drivetrain to slow them slower than the car is traveling then while traction is broken you stand on the gas to speed them up.
Braking Drift -Thanks to Liquidus
This one is tricky because it involves weight transfer to the front wheels. Getting the weight off of the rear wheels helps them be able to slide, but too strong of a transfer off of the rear and onto the front, while braking, and turning will cause the front tires to exceed their available grip and lose traction and get major understeer. Especially in cars without ABS, where it is easier to lock the front wheels.
When you come into the corner you need to be going too fast for it. You will be braking through part of the corner, so if you aren't going fast enough, you won't be able to drift. Let off of the gas and get onto the brake lightly while you turn in. This part takes major practice time. Too hard on the brake and you'll get understeer (braking and turning at the same time exceeds the tires limits). Too light on the brake and the weight transfer won't happen and you'll get understeer. This also depends on how sensitive your brakes are and if you have ABS.
Keep in mind right now you should have just entered the corner. As soon as you start to turn in you need to heel-and-toe downshift (maybe i'll make another post on how to do this), but instead of moving your foot back to the gas after the heel and toe blip keep it on the brake for an extra second. This is where the drift initiates. Remember, the amount of pressure you apply to the brake pedal is still critical, practice, practice, practice. Once the drift is initiated get back on the gas and start to countersteer to hold the drift through the corner.
This is more of a tip for moderate drifters, ones you can control a drift from pulling the ebrake or power over. But it's something i just recently learned to do so i thought while my mistakes and experiences were still fresh i would elaborate on your explanation.
so you have initiated, now what?just getting the rear end out is only half the battle. now you have to keep it there and not spin out. this is what I have found to work the best. take it as opinion only as it may not be the "correct" way to do any of it.
lets say you have clutch kicked in the middle of second gear for a standard corner. the kick starts to push the rear end out, you stand on the gas, now what? gently release your grip on the steering wheel letting the car take control of the steering. dont fully remove your hands but rather let the wheel slide through your hands. the rear of the car trying to move past the front will cause the steering wheel to spin faster than you can turn it. once it reaches full lock (you will know when it does ) let off the gas a little bit and turn back away from full lock a little. this will give you playing room if you need to twitch the wheel in eithre direction to help control the slide.
so now you are at full lock, probably full throttle. here comes the part that i cant explain its just something that comes with practice. you have to modulate the throttle. just staying at full throttle will cause the car to spin in most cases. so you need to feather and pump the gas to keep the rears spinning, but not loose control. im usually only at full throttle mid drift for a short period of time unless its a higher speed corner.
once you have control of the drift its time to start concentrating on the exit. check your line, and speed, make sure its safe (i.e. arent heading for a wall or off track) if everything looks ok let off the gas a little more and turn out of the slide. once you start to regain traction lay into the gas a little more to get your exit speeds up. it probably wasnt pretty, but its a drift.
now I am by no means an expert drifter, I have limited experience and still have a long way to go. so if i made errors or was flat out wrong on parts tell me. ill gladly fix anything.
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ceniack
- Posts: 1732
- Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:19 pm
- Car: 1992 240sx Coupe
1993 JDM Nissan Caravan
2011 Subaru WRX STI Hatchback
2012 Subaru Impreza Hatchback - Contact:
suspension and tires
best thing to do is go to your local book store or library and pic up a book on setting up a suspension as there is sooo much stuff to be learned that one post on one thread will not be able to cover.
generaly if you have adjustable shocks, you will want your rear to be stiffer than the front (how much depends on the rest of the car, and personal preferance) if you are going to get sway bars/strut bars and can't get enough for them at all 4 corners, start with the rear as the stiffer the rear is, the easier it will be to slide the tail out.
if you are like me and buy used tires, try and put the ones with the least amount of tread (or the ones that you find to have the least ammount of grip) in the back. if you are still having a problem sliding the back end out, try raising the tire pressure in the rear and/or lowering it in the front.
if you are still having a problem with understeer (or plowing) try and brake before the turns, and take the turns slower so that you don't overload the front tires.
also, before upgrading your suspension, make sure to replace anything that is broken/worn, like bushings, etc... it is a good excuse to get better bushings and other parts like tie rods, tension rods, etc...
also, watch that temp gauge, especially if you are running a stock cooling system, it doesn't take much high rpm driving to get the engine to overheat, especially if you live in some of the more southern states.
when buying used tires, dont' be afraid to haggle with the tire shop guys, trust me, it helps.
best thing to do is go to your local book store or library and pic up a book on setting up a suspension as there is sooo much stuff to be learned that one post on one thread will not be able to cover.
generaly if you have adjustable shocks, you will want your rear to be stiffer than the front (how much depends on the rest of the car, and personal preferance) if you are going to get sway bars/strut bars and can't get enough for them at all 4 corners, start with the rear as the stiffer the rear is, the easier it will be to slide the tail out.
if you are like me and buy used tires, try and put the ones with the least amount of tread (or the ones that you find to have the least ammount of grip) in the back. if you are still having a problem sliding the back end out, try raising the tire pressure in the rear and/or lowering it in the front.
if you are still having a problem with understeer (or plowing) try and brake before the turns, and take the turns slower so that you don't overload the front tires.
also, before upgrading your suspension, make sure to replace anything that is broken/worn, like bushings, etc... it is a good excuse to get better bushings and other parts like tie rods, tension rods, etc...
also, watch that temp gauge, especially if you are running a stock cooling system, it doesn't take much high rpm driving to get the engine to overheat, especially if you live in some of the more southern states.
when buying used tires, dont' be afraid to haggle with the tire shop guys, trust me, it helps.
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Ender_Zero
- Posts: 620
- Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 9:56 pm
- Car: '03 Base Z, '91 S13 Coupe
Re: Re: (Kamin)
Just wanted to make an adjustment on your braking drift. From your short explanation i think newbs wouldn't be able to do it and will be confused. I know i used to be about the braking drift.
From your explanation it would be very easy to get major understeer, if the person doesn't already know how braking drift is done. Like i said, i didn't used to be able to do it at all. But after experimenting on the track and coming back and watching drift bible and experimenting some more, i've got it pretty well
Braking Drift
This one is tricky because it involves weight transfer to the front wheels. Getting the weight off of the rear wheels helps them be able to slide, but too strong of a transfer off of the rear and onto the front, while braking, and turning will cause the front tires to exceed their available grip and lose traction and get major understeer. Especially in cars without ABS, where it is easier to lock the front wheels.
When you come into the corner you need to be going too fast for it. You will be braking through part of the corner, so if you aren't going fast enough, you won't be able to drift. Let off of the gas and get onto the brake lightly while you turn in. This part takes major practice time. Too hard on the brake and you'll get understeer (braking and turning at the same time exceeds the tires limits). Too light on the brake and the weight transfer won't happen and you'll get understeer. This also depends on how sensitive your brakes are and if you have ABS.
Keep in mind right now you should have just entered the corner. As soon as you start to turn in you need to heel-and-toe downshift (maybe i'll make another post on how to do this), but instead of moving your foot back to the gas after the heel and toe blip keep it on the brake for an extra second. This is where the drift initiates. Remember, the amount of pressure you apply to the brake pedal is still critical, practice, practice, practice. Once the drift is initiated get back on the gas and start to countersteer to hold the drift through the corner.
This is more of a tip for moderate drifters, ones you can control a drift from pulling the ebrake or power over. But it's something i just recently learned to do so i thought while my mistakes and experiences were still fresh i would elaborate on your explanation.
Later i might post some of the tips that got me started being able to drift.
From your explanation it would be very easy to get major understeer, if the person doesn't already know how braking drift is done. Like i said, i didn't used to be able to do it at all. But after experimenting on the track and coming back and watching drift bible and experimenting some more, i've got it pretty well
Braking Drift
This one is tricky because it involves weight transfer to the front wheels. Getting the weight off of the rear wheels helps them be able to slide, but too strong of a transfer off of the rear and onto the front, while braking, and turning will cause the front tires to exceed their available grip and lose traction and get major understeer. Especially in cars without ABS, where it is easier to lock the front wheels.
When you come into the corner you need to be going too fast for it. You will be braking through part of the corner, so if you aren't going fast enough, you won't be able to drift. Let off of the gas and get onto the brake lightly while you turn in. This part takes major practice time. Too hard on the brake and you'll get understeer (braking and turning at the same time exceeds the tires limits). Too light on the brake and the weight transfer won't happen and you'll get understeer. This also depends on how sensitive your brakes are and if you have ABS.
Keep in mind right now you should have just entered the corner. As soon as you start to turn in you need to heel-and-toe downshift (maybe i'll make another post on how to do this), but instead of moving your foot back to the gas after the heel and toe blip keep it on the brake for an extra second. This is where the drift initiates. Remember, the amount of pressure you apply to the brake pedal is still critical, practice, practice, practice. Once the drift is initiated get back on the gas and start to countersteer to hold the drift through the corner.
This is more of a tip for moderate drifters, ones you can control a drift from pulling the ebrake or power over. But it's something i just recently learned to do so i thought while my mistakes and experiences were still fresh i would elaborate on your explanation.
Later i might post some of the tips that got me started being able to drift.
Re: Re: (Liquidus)
Sorry for posting twice right in a row, i should have read more of your post so i could elaborate on one more thing i also just learned about.
Don't let go of the steering wheel when drifting. I used to do this all the time. It was a hard habit to break. The problem with doing this is that it doesn't give you enough controll over your slip angle.
Newb note: Slip angle is the difference between the way a tire is pointed and the direction it is moving. When drifters are talking about it they usually mean the slip angle of the rear tires. They always point forward, but when rotating the rear end you get them to slide sideways. The more the better when it comes to drifting. Slip angle of the front tires exclusively is understeer, slip angle of all four can be a four wheel drift.
Plus, anytime you let go of the wheel when doing any type of performance driving could be considered bad. Ever seen a rally driver do it? Ever seen it happen in the drift bible? Nope. But its very easy to want to do. Like i said it used to be the only way i drifted.
Anyway, the thing is it will countersteer at the speed the car is rotating, based on when you let go of the wheel(if you are still holding the wheel it obviously can't spin). This can mean a bad angle or lack of control or both. Just get some practice countersteering yourself, it takes a while if you are used to letting go of the wheel.
Practice it while driving normally. Under normal driving conditions on sharp corners you may turn and then let go of the wheel and it returns to center on its own. To get some practice for the feel of your cars steering don't do this anymore.
Once you can countersteer yourself in a drift, you'll have more control of the drift and adjustment of your slip angle.
Don't let go of the steering wheel when drifting. I used to do this all the time. It was a hard habit to break. The problem with doing this is that it doesn't give you enough controll over your slip angle.
Newb note: Slip angle is the difference between the way a tire is pointed and the direction it is moving. When drifters are talking about it they usually mean the slip angle of the rear tires. They always point forward, but when rotating the rear end you get them to slide sideways. The more the better when it comes to drifting. Slip angle of the front tires exclusively is understeer, slip angle of all four can be a four wheel drift.
Plus, anytime you let go of the wheel when doing any type of performance driving could be considered bad. Ever seen a rally driver do it? Ever seen it happen in the drift bible? Nope. But its very easy to want to do. Like i said it used to be the only way i drifted.
Anyway, the thing is it will countersteer at the speed the car is rotating, based on when you let go of the wheel(if you are still holding the wheel it obviously can't spin). This can mean a bad angle or lack of control or both. Just get some practice countersteering yourself, it takes a while if you are used to letting go of the wheel.
Practice it while driving normally. Under normal driving conditions on sharp corners you may turn and then let go of the wheel and it returns to center on its own. To get some practice for the feel of your cars steering don't do this anymore.
Once you can countersteer yourself in a drift, you'll have more control of the drift and adjustment of your slip angle.
Re: Re: (Liquidus)
thats some great information. ill have to try to force countersteer. in my head, i just cant see the initiation being as forcefull when you are spinning the wheel yourself. but i see what you are saying about more control of the slip angle.
also when i say "let go of the wheel" i mean release your grip, but let it slide through your fingers. never take your hands OFF the wheel haha. ill go back and clarify a little.
also when i say "let go of the wheel" i mean release your grip, but let it slide through your fingers. never take your hands OFF the wheel haha. ill go back and clarify a little.
Re: (sil beer s13)
but if you do crash, make sure it looks cool and is on film!
Re: (sixxdeuce)
Thought i'd add some more info since i'm bored. So here goes.
First of all i wanted to elaborate myself on the "letting go of the wheel", the one time when i do it is when it is a really tight very short drift. Like super tight less then a right angle low speed drift. Anything longer its all manual steering. Just thought i'd mention it. Its not like there's alot of slip angle to adjust in those situations anyway.
Anyway...heres the steps i followed starting out.
First go out to an empty parking lot and try doing 180's with the ebrake. Next, try and actually turn with the ebrake. Don't spin all the way around, turn, ebrake, counter steer a little. Get something like a cone to set out there to try and go around. Go toward it to either the left or right of it (about three car lengths to one side), when you get close to it turn towards it and ebrake. Try and make the nose of the car face it, but slide sideways right by and and continue on. Its like a 90 turn and the cone represents the point of the corner(apex).
Next, see if you can get a little power over oversteer. This works well in the rain. With an open differential it won't work too well, but you can do it a little. Turn the wheel, step on the gas hard. Even with an open diff you should be able to at least to a little 180. Much more in the rain.
Next, get an LSD. Some people say you can drift with an open LSD. Coincidently, all of those people have open differentials. Everyone with an LSD says to get one, and for good reason.One of my favorite quotes from Sport Compact Car "if you like turning and accelerating at the same time, you need an LSD."
I know it's expensive but its certainly the best money i've ever spent. Your car will be so much more fun to drive, you just have to experience it. If your just buying a drift car figure in the cost of an LSD into your purchase price. Plus, if you already practiced a little, your drifting skill will double. Now you'll be able to try different drift entry techniques, hold the drift for long periods of time, adjust the angles, connect drifts without worrying about snap oversteer sending you out of control, and of course, do donuts.
LSDLimited Slip differential, connects the two wheels together when they lose traction. With an open diff only one wheel spins, the other is just dragged along. Open differentials are frustrating and boring to drive.
1-way: Connects the wheels together only when you are pressing the gas. If you are off the gas they can move at different speeds.
1.5-way: Connects the wheels when you press the gas, but allows more difference in wheel speeds when you aren't pressing the gas. Hence the 1.5 way, connects when on the gas, connects partially when off. This is my personal reccomendation as it always has the wheels connected, but allows them to move more when off the gas so you can get a sharper turn in.
2-way: Connects the wheels when both on and off the gas. Some people like these but i think they create a little too much understeer. if you have a good suspension you can compensate, but you need good car control skills too to keep it under control.
Viscous LSDUses a viscous fluid that essenitally gets more viscous as the wheels turn different speeds. The thickening fluid connects the wheels together. This is okay if your on a budget, and alot of people use them, but most come out of older cars. The fluid in the LSD, like all viscous fluid, looses viscosity over time. Plus these don't hold all that hard to begin with. So get one if your on a budget, otherwise don't bother. Also, these are only 1-way.
Clutch typeThese use clutches to connect the wheels together. These usually lock very soon and very hard, which can create some understeer, but its also good for drifting once you get past that initial understeer. The hard and fast locking keeps both wheels spinning for good drifts. Popular ones are KAAZ and Nismo.
Torque Sensing (Torsen)These are a little more complicated then clutch types. Since they don't use clutches they don't need to be rebuilt. They don't lock as fast or as hard as clutch types, so their usually used more for autocross than drifting, but they work well and don't need as much maintenence. The only company that i know of who makes these is Quaife.
Well, that was an insanely long post. I'm done for now. Hopefully theres some good info in there. Enjoy.
First of all i wanted to elaborate myself on the "letting go of the wheel", the one time when i do it is when it is a really tight very short drift. Like super tight less then a right angle low speed drift. Anything longer its all manual steering. Just thought i'd mention it. Its not like there's alot of slip angle to adjust in those situations anyway.
Anyway...heres the steps i followed starting out.
First go out to an empty parking lot and try doing 180's with the ebrake. Next, try and actually turn with the ebrake. Don't spin all the way around, turn, ebrake, counter steer a little. Get something like a cone to set out there to try and go around. Go toward it to either the left or right of it (about three car lengths to one side), when you get close to it turn towards it and ebrake. Try and make the nose of the car face it, but slide sideways right by and and continue on. Its like a 90 turn and the cone represents the point of the corner(apex).
Next, see if you can get a little power over oversteer. This works well in the rain. With an open differential it won't work too well, but you can do it a little. Turn the wheel, step on the gas hard. Even with an open diff you should be able to at least to a little 180. Much more in the rain.
Next, get an LSD. Some people say you can drift with an open LSD. Coincidently, all of those people have open differentials. Everyone with an LSD says to get one, and for good reason.One of my favorite quotes from Sport Compact Car "if you like turning and accelerating at the same time, you need an LSD."
I know it's expensive but its certainly the best money i've ever spent. Your car will be so much more fun to drive, you just have to experience it. If your just buying a drift car figure in the cost of an LSD into your purchase price. Plus, if you already practiced a little, your drifting skill will double. Now you'll be able to try different drift entry techniques, hold the drift for long periods of time, adjust the angles, connect drifts without worrying about snap oversteer sending you out of control, and of course, do donuts.
LSDLimited Slip differential, connects the two wheels together when they lose traction. With an open diff only one wheel spins, the other is just dragged along. Open differentials are frustrating and boring to drive.
1-way: Connects the wheels together only when you are pressing the gas. If you are off the gas they can move at different speeds.
1.5-way: Connects the wheels when you press the gas, but allows more difference in wheel speeds when you aren't pressing the gas. Hence the 1.5 way, connects when on the gas, connects partially when off. This is my personal reccomendation as it always has the wheels connected, but allows them to move more when off the gas so you can get a sharper turn in.
2-way: Connects the wheels when both on and off the gas. Some people like these but i think they create a little too much understeer. if you have a good suspension you can compensate, but you need good car control skills too to keep it under control.
Viscous LSDUses a viscous fluid that essenitally gets more viscous as the wheels turn different speeds. The thickening fluid connects the wheels together. This is okay if your on a budget, and alot of people use them, but most come out of older cars. The fluid in the LSD, like all viscous fluid, looses viscosity over time. Plus these don't hold all that hard to begin with. So get one if your on a budget, otherwise don't bother. Also, these are only 1-way.
Clutch typeThese use clutches to connect the wheels together. These usually lock very soon and very hard, which can create some understeer, but its also good for drifting once you get past that initial understeer. The hard and fast locking keeps both wheels spinning for good drifts. Popular ones are KAAZ and Nismo.
Torque Sensing (Torsen)These are a little more complicated then clutch types. Since they don't use clutches they don't need to be rebuilt. They don't lock as fast or as hard as clutch types, so their usually used more for autocross than drifting, but they work well and don't need as much maintenence. The only company that i know of who makes these is Quaife.
Well, that was an insanely long post. I'm done for now. Hopefully theres some good info in there. Enjoy.
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MY S14 SR20DET
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:46 pm
Re: Re: (Kamin)
NEVER violently jerk the wheel into a turn, this will cause major understeer. once you learn the balance of your vehicle and how to shift weight as desired, you should be able to do this without any violent jerking of the steering wheel. Which is another reason, you should learn to grip drive before drift.Kamin wrote:
Feint: this one is all about weight transfer (again, why its important to know the basics! why i say DO HPDE!). if you are going into a left turn you move down away from the racing line (left, way early), turn back into it (right), then at the turn in point violently turn the wheel twords the corner (left) then stand on the gas. the large, sudden weight transfer will overcome traction in the rear and cause it to begin to drift.
Re: Re: (MY S14 SR20DET)
yea violent was the wrong term. ill go back and fix it.MY S14 SR20DET wrote:NEVER violently jerk the wheel into a turn, this will cause major understeer. once you learn the balance of your vehicle and how to shift weight as desired, you should be able to do this without any violent jerking of the steering wheel. Which is another reason, you should learn to grip drive before drift.
i wrote this in a hurry at work so bare with me
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Slappy
- Posts: 5259
- Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:28 am
- Car: 1993 240 sx coupe
- Location: Chesapeake City, MD
- Contact:
Re: Tips for newbies, contribute if you can! (Kamin)
drifting tips for novice drifter's by Ken Gushi and Calvin Wan.
Ken Gushi : "Invest your money in a used LSD. it makes drifting alot easier to learn. You dont need coilovers, so pick up a good set of shocks and springs. I used stock brakes and had a stock engine, but i always spent money on new tires."
Calvin Wan : "Start off with used tires because thier cheaper to burn up, then switch to newer ones in the front for more steering control. Steering angle is important so i used spacers on the tie rods. Instead of buying an aftermarket LSD, welding your stock one will provide a cheap , 100% locking 2 way option. Instead of buying aftermarket wheels, you can use spacers to widen the stance of your stock wheels."
Ken Gushi : "Invest your money in a used LSD. it makes drifting alot easier to learn. You dont need coilovers, so pick up a good set of shocks and springs. I used stock brakes and had a stock engine, but i always spent money on new tires."
Calvin Wan : "Start off with used tires because thier cheaper to burn up, then switch to newer ones in the front for more steering control. Steering angle is important so i used spacers on the tie rods. Instead of buying an aftermarket LSD, welding your stock one will provide a cheap , 100% locking 2 way option. Instead of buying aftermarket wheels, you can use spacers to widen the stance of your stock wheels."
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MainEvent212
- Posts: 4182
- Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 1:21 pm
- Car: 95 Nissan 240SX SE w/ SR20DET+goodies
Re: Tips for newbies, contribute if you can! (Slappy)
yeah, jerking it violently never ends up well
my seemingly simple pointers that many people forget to do/not do
-try not to clutch kick alot...it's a bad habit. Learn to initate w/ steering and throttle control. Clutch kicking can come later
-Dont forget to steer out of your drift. Alot of people think that it's ok to have a sloppy exit by letting off throttle and letting it straighten out on it's own. WRONG. Keep the throttle down and steer back out of the counter position
-Have fun. If you're scared, you need to collect yourself. If you're not having fun, dont force it. Plus, who learns when they're not happy? It's like highschool all over again.
my seemingly simple pointers that many people forget to do/not do
-try not to clutch kick alot...it's a bad habit. Learn to initate w/ steering and throttle control. Clutch kicking can come later
-Dont forget to steer out of your drift. Alot of people think that it's ok to have a sloppy exit by letting off throttle and letting it straighten out on it's own. WRONG. Keep the throttle down and steer back out of the counter position
-Have fun. If you're scared, you need to collect yourself. If you're not having fun, dont force it. Plus, who learns when they're not happy? It's like highschool all over again.
Re: Tips for newbies, contribute if you can! (Kamin)
when i first started drifting i would go out to a local parking lot and do donuts. i started out by doing them from a stand-still and once i was able to control my car while spinningi tried to do a dougnut from about 20 mph and then learned how to control it. i later began to move up to taking corners and holding lines and am still trying to improve each time try somthing,
but i think that every individual is unique and how they learn to control their car in an uncontrolable state (drifting) is also going to be unique.
so no matter how you do it just be safe ,have fun, and drive with an open mind.
but i think that every individual is unique and how they learn to control their car in an uncontrolable state (drifting) is also going to be unique.
so no matter how you do it just be safe ,have fun, and drive with an open mind.
Re: Tips for newbies, contribute if you can! (2fizzle00)
You need a VLSD and some tires.2fizzle00 wrote:when i first started drifting i would go out to a local parking lot and do donuts. i started out by doing them from a stand-still and once i was able to control my car while spinningi tried to do a dougnut from about 20 mph and then learned how to control it. i later began to move up to taking corners and holding lines and am still trying to improve each time try somthing,
but i think that every individual is unique and how they learn to control their car in an uncontrolable state (drifting) is also going to be unique.
so no matter how you do it just be safe ,have fun, and drive with an open mind.
Re: Tips for newbies, contribute if you can! (574-240sx)
bump
FAQ comming soon
anyone else have stuff to add?
FAQ comming soon
anyone else have stuff to add?
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mmm240
- Posts: 6587
- Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:22 pm
- Car: 95 Nissan 240SX KADE-T
94 Toyota Pickup
91 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
03 Toyota Matrix XR
Re: Tips for newbies, contribute if you can! (MainEvent212)
great post! definetely relax and focus, if your not feeling it on that particular day don't push it.i'm not a drifter so don't quote me onthis being just for drifting, quote me for this being for EVERYTHING you do!once again excellent info main event
Always look where you want to be. It's a very simple thing, but can be overlooked. Don't worry about angle when you're starting out.
Donuts are some of the best practice you can do. Get a cone and work at it. You'll learn the basics of working the wheel, and modulating the throttle.
Start out really close to the cone and try and work away from it. Try this both ways. But remember to look at it. The cone is your focal point. You want to try to keep it centered in your vision.
Do them until your so freaking bored of them, then you do them some more. It will get you over the adrenaline rush and get you more calm.
And PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, ......etc
Donuts are some of the best practice you can do. Get a cone and work at it. You'll learn the basics of working the wheel, and modulating the throttle.
Start out really close to the cone and try and work away from it. Try this both ways. But remember to look at it. The cone is your focal point. You want to try to keep it centered in your vision.
Do them until your so freaking bored of them, then you do them some more. It will get you over the adrenaline rush and get you more calm.
And PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, ......etc
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drifter_for_life06
- Posts: 5301
- Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 5:18 pm
- Car: Daily: '16 WRX
Toys: '92 RPS13 400whp
Exocet - Location: SoYoCo, PA
if anyone wants i made a quick page for a computer class on drifting
here's the link if anyone wants it
http://www.geocities.com/julioboy01
its got techniques, popular cars and a few other things on there
Check out tha banner i put up for Greg
here's the link if anyone wants it
http://www.geocities.com/julioboy01
its got techniques, popular cars and a few other things on there
Check out tha banner i put up for Greg
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skyline3270
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:07 am