Lets say theoretically that you made a mistake on the timing and totally took off the belt(this is for a nissan pathfinder, but the question goes for any belt driven cam engine) and had no idea how to find if it is correctly timed. What is the way to verify the correct timing? Or verifing after you installed it (seeing how there is alot at stake) . With the belt off If you aligned the marks on the cam shafts with there correct position and the crankshaft at its dtc position and attached the belt, would it be correct? Counting the teeth, of course, to make sure it is equally aligned.
I am askintg these questions because I know the engine only hits all the align marks once every couple thousand revolutions
Anyone who has gotten a sr20, Was it hard to start the first time seeing as how the engine was sitting for about 8 - 10 yrs. I primed the cylinders with oil for the rings. The starter is having trouble turning the engine for it to start. It moves it about 5 degrees each attempted start.
Anyone that can help, it would be greatly appreciated. I am fearful to have it start.
Timing question first start sr20
if the engine is feezing every time you start it it sounds as though the valves are hitting the piston. If in fact this is the case you need to rip the haeds off and replace the bent valves. But not sure if thats what your saying. As far as timing marks. If you took the belt off with the engine at the wrong location as long as a cam didnt snap back due to valve spring tension. you could have stuck the belt back on and rotated it to top dead. You should never rotate the cams or the crank with the belt off. this will tag valves you would be hard pressed to tell the difference between valve spring tension and cyl head contact when rotating the cams. This would easily bend valves. All three marks line up every 2 revolutions of the crank. its the belt marks you are reffering to every couple thousand revolutions. The factory belt has timing marks on it for indexing the belt during install as long as those three marks line up with the gear marks when installed all timing is right on the money.
hope this helps and post back if I am misinterpeting what your are saying about the engine freezing every time you try to start it.
hope this helps and post back if I am misinterpeting what your are saying about the engine freezing every time you try to start it.
Sorry Nistech. I posted that before I seen your post. I apologize. The engine I have is from a junk yard, but with 40000 miles. Because of its age, I believe and because it was very hard to turn the crank even before the engine was installed, it is just kinda hard to turn. Seeing as It hasnt had oil for about 10 yrs. I primed the cylinders with a little oil and let it sit for a day or so to help the rings soak it in. Because it hasnt moved for so long the starter is only able to budge it for now. It moves about 5 degrees each crank but has gotten a little better as I attempted. At that small amount of movement, if the timing were to be incorrect, then if it hit a valve, it just wouldnt move anymore, being with the cylinder wall resistance and the valve. It that safe to believe. (Simpler...Would the starter have enough power to bend the valve, even if the engine never turned over and the piston was resting against the valve when you turned the key)Before the engine was installed, I could not remove the crank pulley and It was very hard to turn the engine even after alot of tugging. I just wanna make sure I didnt misalign the timing
So the marks on the crank and the cam gears line up every 2 revolutions. That is usefull knowledge, thanks for that, thisll allow me to double check.
So the marks on the crank and the cam gears line up every 2 revolutions. That is usefull knowledge, thanks for that, thisll allow me to double check.
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yellow_jacket
- Posts: 1355
- Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 4:43 pm
- Car: 95 240sx
Really......Would it give a full crank before they clashed. Yellowjacket, you responded to both posts. Arent they the greatest forums. Are you a member to anyother?
The timing is correct. the marks are perfect on the crank and the cam gear. So that is good, it still wont turn over, except for 5 degrees each turn of the key
The timing is correct. the marks are perfect on the crank and the cam gear. So that is good, it still wont turn over, except for 5 degrees each turn of the key
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yellow_jacket
- Posts: 1355
- Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 4:43 pm
- Car: 95 240sx
I am assuming that the motor would continue to turn over completely as the guy bent all 4 exhaust valves.
Your problem sounds more like a dead battery if your marks are all lined up. Try turning it over byhand though justt to be sure.
I also post on Honda-Tech.com. I just sold a civic that I repaired a busted crankshaft on. I also have a 97 Prelude that I am in the process of building the motor on.
Your problem sounds more like a dead battery if your marks are all lined up. Try turning it over byhand though justt to be sure.
I also post on Honda-Tech.com. I just sold a civic that I repaired a busted crankshaft on. I also have a 97 Prelude that I am in the process of building the motor on.
It sounds to me like you have a metal to metal drag going on[ i.e. crankbearings,rod bearings,rusted cyl walls. Have you taken a look at all these? Where exactly is this engine? Is it still in the original car? Are you sure this car has been sitting 10yrs unstarted? Give us the run down on this car so we have an idea as to what exactly it is your looking at.
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yellow_jacket
- Posts: 1355
- Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 4:43 pm
- Car: 95 240sx
Yea something is very wrong. It is way too hard to turn, with the starter engaged and a breaker bar I can get some decent movement....1/3 of a turn on the crank pulley. I am not sure if it is getting easier thoughI purchased it from a japanese importer with an iron clad 6 month unlimited mileage warranty ( I just want it to work so I dont have to pay to ship it back not to mention the time it took me to ready, install and to uninstall as I work 50+ hrs week). I replaced the water pump, thermostat, removed and cleaned the oil pan (which it didnt need). Removed the valve cover, everything I see states that this engine has less than the guarenteed 40,000 or less miles, by alot. The cams and rockers havent even begun to take that oil soaked color. It is as if the components were just taken off the assembly line. Same with the crank, oil screen, oil piping, rod bearings(from what I can see). I removed the intake manifold and seperated the two parts, clean as ****. Nothing to indicate even moderate use for any lenghty period of time. The only discoloration was with the coolant lines, small deposits of the dried coolant chalkiness. When i look down the spark plug holes, it shimmers up at me. Would that not be the piston heads? There isnt a mark on them from what I can see. I am going to take the oil pan back off on wed to tyake another look at the cylinder walls if I can see up that far into them. Make sure the pistons are moving when the crank moves(the little bit it does, of course) I would just like any ideas for when I dismantle it on WED for things to check on. The starter is strained extremely. Gets very hot, so I have to try something else. Anything at all would be greatly appreciated. It has to be metal on metal somewhere, yet I hope not
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yellow_jacket
- Posts: 1355
- Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 4:43 pm
- Car: 95 240sx
There isnt any liquid in there except for the little bit of oil i put in to help break it free. Will I learn anything from removing the oil pan and giving it a good looking over. What should I be looking for, anything to help me. Please...this blows. I ve spent so much time insatlling and prepping. I know life isnt perfect. But damn
Bearing caps? I am unfarmiliar with what they look like. Could you give me a description? The next step after that is pobably to pull the head off right?.? What else can cause drag? What if the cylinder walls do happen to be rusty ( I dont think) Should I just buff it clean, Give me a little more nistech. You are the grandfather of this forum, the king of knowledge
With all you kids here sometimes I do feel like a grandpa...lol
The bearing caps are what holds the crank in the engine and the rods to the crank shaft be sure you have a service manual for this engine so you know the torque spec when you retighten them. If you have rust in this engine you will need to have the cyl's boared and install a set of pistons graded to match. with all new rings and lower bearings. If those cyl's are rusted I strongly recommend you take advantage of the warrenty they offered and exchange it for another since all the machine work will be pricey.
The bearing caps are what holds the crank in the engine and the rods to the crank shaft be sure you have a service manual for this engine so you know the torque spec when you retighten them. If you have rust in this engine you will need to have the cyl's boared and install a set of pistons graded to match. with all new rings and lower bearings. If those cyl's are rusted I strongly recommend you take advantage of the warrenty they offered and exchange it for another since all the machine work will be pricey.
Well Nistech. thanks for the help so far. I took off the oil pan again....The cylinder walls are perfect. No scratches or cracks. Looks new. The pistons are relatively clean (couple small oil stains) It looks clean as hell. The crank and bearings all look ok. Dont have an fsm yet. So i am unsure of the torque settings. Didnt loosen them yet.
I was messing with it a little. When you fill the engine with oil, to the top fill line, the bearings still arent sitting in the oil ..correct? I do not think it would be that high, overflowing the oil pan (do you know what I mean). So in reality when I filled the engine the bearings never really got oil on them seeing as how the crank hasnt moved very much (probably only 2 revolutuions in 8 yrs) So I sprayed them with pbbuster and dripped oil on them a couple of times. Lo and behold on the next attemted start I got a 100 degree revolution compared to the 3 - 5 degree I was getting. It wanted to move, just strained a bit. I am going to let them soak a bit, keep oiling them up.
I dont think the transmission is hurting me here. It was really hard to turn before I installed the engine. Still could be though. Any ideas on how to soak the bearings in oil without taking them off. If I should then I will take them off. i just need the torque specs. If I take them off with a torque wrench and watch the reading whern they break free. Will this give me a good estimate
I was messing with it a little. When you fill the engine with oil, to the top fill line, the bearings still arent sitting in the oil ..correct? I do not think it would be that high, overflowing the oil pan (do you know what I mean). So in reality when I filled the engine the bearings never really got oil on them seeing as how the crank hasnt moved very much (probably only 2 revolutuions in 8 yrs) So I sprayed them with pbbuster and dripped oil on them a couple of times. Lo and behold on the next attemted start I got a 100 degree revolution compared to the 3 - 5 degree I was getting. It wanted to move, just strained a bit. I am going to let them soak a bit, keep oiling them up.
I dont think the transmission is hurting me here. It was really hard to turn before I installed the engine. Still could be though. Any ideas on how to soak the bearings in oil without taking them off. If I should then I will take them off. i just need the torque specs. If I take them off with a torque wrench and watch the reading whern they break free. Will this give me a good estimate
It still wont crabnk over nistech. Sorry to have to revive this stupid thread. I so wanna be done with it. Ok so now what should I do. Should I take off the rod bearings and clean them. How do I do this? Clean them with what. When you take them off, do you just put them back on, or must something else be done. I have never done rod bearings. Same with the main bearings? Anything special I should know? What else could be giving the engine drag? I am unbelieving on the transmission because of how hard it was to turn before the install. Any more help would be appreciated. Should I just loosen them and see if that helps
You just loosen the bolts on the bearing caps to get them off. you need to have torque specs though when you go back together they need to be torqued properly. When you pull them off you need to pay special attention to which cap goes where, they need to go back on exactly how they came off in the same direction and position. There are tabs on each bearing to prevent them from spinning. Those tabs need to be put back exactly where they were. If once you have them off you see the bearing has a tear in its metal you need to do 2 things. 1 replace ALL the bearings. 2 inspect the crankshaft journals for damage. If there is any scaring you will need to either have it repaired or replaced. In either case the crank will need to come out. This means the trans has to come back off. Note once you loosen the bolts on the caps you may need to tap on the caps to get them off they typically dont just slide right off once the bolts are removed. I use a large pair of channel locks to grab the caps from either side and while pulling down I take a medium size ballpeen hammer and tap on the cap to jar it loose from the crank. Also once the rod caps are removed you can knock the piston off the crank and see if you can push and pull it up and down in the cyl. This will tell you if some of the drag is due to piston fit in your cyl's. All this should be done with the spark plugs removed to prevent comppresion in the cyl's while trying to move parts.