Timing issues

Post by **a_bob36** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:28 am

This is a long story and big problem for me. The week of Christmas my brother was in town and I had work so he decided to fix my timing rattle. He replaced the guides, chain, tensioner, gears, and seals. Took about 2 days and worked fine sounded fine and drove for 2 days until the cam bolt came lose (idiot didnt tighten it up enough) and the camegear and chain came off. I didnt hear any metallic noises or anything like that but the engine just shut off.

Well I redid all the timing and everything with his help but now when it starts up and runs...hear loud knocking in the engine and having the #3 cylinder spark plug wire on or off engine runs the same ie not firing. Timing gun shows it's getting spark..but could I be off on my timing which is causing this? Or did i screw the valve/cylinder up when the chain came off while driving? Another thing is my dad trying to help tried starting my car when the chain was off (right after my car shut off and i started having troubles) and my brother also rotated my camshaft with the chain off...so i have no idea what affect that has all had on this.

I really need help on this one. btw '90 240 KA24E 5spd

OH and can someone please scan and post what the FSM (Chiltons or something like that) has on timing chain installs? I need to see what it says about it. My crappy ebay 240sx CD isnt very detailed.
Modified by a_bob36 at 12:39 PM 1/3/2005

Website · Post by **s13sr20chris** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:03 pm

it really sounds to me like you bent a valve on cyl 3. there really is no other reason to suddenly have a cyl 3 missfire. this would be a good time to pull the head and just do a good valve job. its not too much more work than what you have already done(twice).

welcome to nico!

Post by **a_bob36** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:52 pm

Yea that's what I was afraid of...thanks for the quick reply. I was hoping you'd come to my rescue after searching all over and seeing you respond to everyones problems.

How much does a valve job cost? or how hard/long does it take to do? I really dont feel like taking it all apart again...well i mean i gues i dont care but i have no knowledge on this subject so...what all is there involved?or should i just swap in another KA24e or even a DEyou can email me at [email protected] if you dont feel like posting

Modified by a_bob36 at 9:14 PM 1/3/2005
Modified by a_bob36 at 9:15 PM 1/3/2005

Post by **180fan** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:44 am

Did you do a compression test? If you've a bent valve, you should lose compression on that cylinder. Also if you're going to remove the head for a bent valve, check the piston for scoring from possibly hitting the valve.

Post by **a_bob36** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:56 pm

OK well i did a compression test. I didnt warm engine up or anything, just cold. But one half of my engine is no compression (Cylinders 1 and 3) Cylinders 2 and 4 are reading like mid 150's. Which means timing is off.

The cam sprocket/gear thing is also interesting cause the dot is not at 3 o'clock(with it at TDC) its more like 2.5can anyone tell me how many chain links it is from the crank gear to the cam 3 o'clock? cause if my mark on my cam gear is wrong...im doing it wrong (I think i figured 21 links to the mark but if that mark is off then im a link or two off on the timing beacause im rotating my camgear so that mark is at 3).

Modified by a_bob36 at 5:10 PM 1/5/2005
Modified by a_bob36 at 5:24 PM 1/5/2005

Website · Post by **s13sr20chris** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:48 pm

i dont have a fsm for the sohc motor but i will try to get hold of that info for you. that compression test really sounds to me like bent valves. pulling the head is not much harder than what you have already done. it will more than likely involve some down time though. the valve job is not hard to do yourself on the sohc motor. you just remove the rocker shafts and use a cheap ($25) valve spring compressor(c clamp type) to remove valves. then you have to "lap" them in with valve grinding compound. pretty easy really. or you could have a machine shop do all that for like $150 plus parts and they would prob do a better job.

180 fan is right about checking the pistons too.

Post by **180fan** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:57 am

your compression readings are supposed to fall within 142-192, with a limit on the difference at 14 psi.

Post by **a_bob36** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:40 am

I understand that which is why I am wondering why i am getting no compression readings at all on #1 and #3. What I was guestimating is that perhaps my timing chain is off some links causing the valves to be partially open when it should be closed for compression. I just cant understand how i have both cylinders with bent valves when I was driving while the chain came off and didnt hear any metal sounds/clanking when it broke and we even dropped the oil pan completely to clean it out and had no metal shavings/pieces in it. Although I know anything is possible. I already have everything mostly off besides the cover. I will take some pics and post em of what my chain is looking like.

Thanks for the help guys. I'll keep updating my status.

Post by **180fan** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:44 pm

The cam sprocket should have been at 3 o'clock, with the crank sprocket's keyway pointing at 12 o'clock. That'd put the punchmark for the crank somewhere around 5 o'clock. The side with less chain links goes on your right side if you're staring at the motor. I don't remember the number of links, but if you're anywhere near ballpark with the location of the punchmarks and are aligning the colored links to the punchmarks, you cannot get it wrong. Just remember to have both keyways pointing up and you'll be fine as long as you match the colored links to the punchmarks. Keep us posted and lets see some pics of your situation.

Post by **a_bob36** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:23 am

Well I just found this link http://www.autozone.com/servle...7.jspwhich is from autozone and shows that the mark on my cam sprocket (around 2:30) is actually for the Z series. That would explain why my timing is off cause I think I rotated my cam sprocket so that the mark was at 3 thus making it ahead of TDC. The crappy ebay kit I bought also only had 1 silver link on the chain.oh and I got this kit from inner fire engine partshttp://innerfire.trustpass.alibaba.com/I am taking the front cover off now so I will keep you posted with pics and updates.

*update* well the timing is ok and i redid it but still no compression. Sounds funny when those two cylinders move as well so....exhaust manifold is off now intake manifold, but cant see where all bolts are. got 4 on top off and 1 under towards front...gotta be one in back right? hard toget to bolts suck but im geting there.
Modified by a_bob36 at 10:12 AM 1/7/2005

Post by **180fan** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:49 am

The chain, you're supposed to match to the punchmarks on the sprockets. Just line the keyways to point up, you'll see how the punchmarks orient themselves. Then match the colored links to the punchmarks.

You probably still have 0 compression because the valves have already been bent, not because your timing is off. Time to pull the head and have a look at what happened. Do not forget to look at the FSM carefully about the order to pull the head bolts off with.

Post by **a_bob36** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:48 am

Well I have the head off and I can clearly see that the exhaust vavles on both 1 and 3 are not shutting all the way. I can also see a little groove on the cylinder where the valves were hitting it. Doesnt look too bad at all though. Can I just take them to a machine shop to get them fixed or must I get new valves? I have pictures but my brother has my camera right now so I will post them later tonite.

*pics* just click these linkshttp://home.comcast.net/~wildc...s.jpghttp://home.comcast.net/~wildc...1.jpghttp://home.comcast.net/~wildc...3.jpghttp://home.comcast.net/~wildcard36qs/car/belt.jpghttp://home.comcast.net/~wildc...t.jpg
Modified by a_bob36 at 2:48 PM 1/10/2005

Website · Post by **s13sr20chris** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:11 pm

no you will need new valves. you can prob get by with just exhaust valves and a valve job.

Post by **a_bob36** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:15 am

OK well I found a really good guy to do my valve job but he told me I first need to goto Autozone or someplace like that to get a head kit? does anyone know what this entails or what I would need for a full valve job? Autozone and the like websites dont have specifics.

Website · Post by **s13sr20chris** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:41 pm

i highly reccomend going to your dealership and getting a "valve grind set" this is basicly a head gasket set with valve seals and stuff. then get some permatex or equivalent valve grinding compound(only neccesary if you have to lap the valves yourself, maybe just ask the machinist to do that too). then search the internet for some valves. no point in getting stock valves when the internet has better ones for less. try http://www.ka24de.comthey are one of our sponsors and they have excellent hi performance valves for about the same price as stock ones. you prob only need exhaust valves.

Timing issues

Timing issues

Re: Timing issues (a_bob36)

Re: (a_bob36)

Bent Valves

Re: Bent Valves (a_bob36)

Re: (a_bob36)

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