Timing chain recall disaster SEIZED motor!

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sugar4shawn
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Car: 2011 m56x
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A quick Bio:
m56 X owner since April 4 of 2015.
Car is bone stock except for brakes and tires.
Car has always been a bit lazy making left or right turn.
Car its self has never had a break down other than a pooched battery.
I have put on 35k trouble free miles! 100% mobile one synthetic oil changes.
I also have been following the official TC recall thread since early January.

December my car decides to roll the windows down on its own, in a snow storm over night. make an appointment on line,
I also tell them to change the trans oil and filter as its seems to shift too early into 2nd gear and it loads the motor enough to make it shudder.
When I drop it off @ Infiniti of Windsor they inform me that there are some
things that need to be completed while they have it, great I figure I'm out of town for Christmas anyway. bonus!
My family picks it up for me.
I find no trans oil change and tech can't find a code or get car to do what I say it dose. he recommends that the TC recall be done as he hears the "noise" that they make when they are on the way out(BTW it has made "the noise" since I got it at 30K)
and says the drivability of the motor improves and this may fix the motor loading issue.
FF February 15 I drop it off for this TC recall. Mind you my "car" is perfect, no codes no service lights runs just as it has for the last 35k miles.
I off to Gape' I go on a 10 day sled trip.
I return very wee morning of 25th I get to I.O.W. around 3pm grab my car
its idle speed is like 12-1300 and its harder to hold the car with the brakes.
I read the ECM and TMC have been reprogramed with the timing chain recall on the warranty paperwork.
Okay I say to self no biggie.
10 minutes later about the time the car is up to temp the "service engine soon" light starts flashing I pull over pop the hood nothing I can see wrong.
restart and its now on constant.
I drop it back off on Monday the 27th. there is a complete fiasco tiring to get a "a cam position solenoid" its ready for pick up on the 3rd of March.
I roll in Saturday the 4th about 2pm (after work) do the exchange swap keys, read the paper work brose a few vehicles I'm interested in.
stroll out to my car that they had warmed up for me.
I get to the first light and it losses the whole right bank motors trying to shake its way out of the car! I have to feather the throttle just to keep it running, SES light is going nuts again. turn left into a Parking lot hit a speed bump and all of a sudden its running on all 8 and the SES light goes out.
Back to the dealer it goes.
get a call on 7th saying they had to replace the other cam position solenoid.
I say Dott (service Manager) send this cranky girl home with the tech I don't want it back till its 100%.
2days go by and I don't hear a thing. Apparently on the tech's way into work the next morning the car losts power on the freeway.

So I'm told they hook the car up to the computer do a web ex live feed run of the car with Infiniti service support and the motor SEIZES UP mid test program.

I get a call Friday saying I need a new motor At like 12K and that the timing chain replacement was not to blame and its a mere coincidence.

Can someone help me understand this? Please.
I'm under the 110,000km mileage but over the 6 year mark by six months.
I'm completely floored.


Frog
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Coincidence my a**,just me 2 cents

EdBwoy
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Yeah, I'm not buying that coincidence story either. The car went in driving well, except for a supposed shifting issue and came out with the engine running rough - no coincidence where I'm from.

As difficult as this seems, you can only imagine how much more it would have been if the damage happened in your possession. I wonder how bad things have to be on a car before the service department contacts engineering, but I would be asking for records of this communication including the Webex session. My old job did a lot of virtual meetings and we usually recorded most of these.
I would try to reason with them one more time (more so confirm what their claimed sequence of events is) then seek legal advice.

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Ilya
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No way in hell I take that car back and pay $12k. I'd get my insurance involved and a lawyer, ASAP. Let them know that first and if they still tell you to pound salt then follow through with it. Also call Infiniti Canada and get a case #.

sugar4shawn
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Car: 2011 m56x
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Thanks guys for the Reponses
The dealer ship seems to be doing the age old duck and hide, at least at the moment.
They suggested a used motor via LKQ from a wrecked car.

I don't know how they could run a car via the service support? would they not need a chassis dyno to run and record the data logs?
Friday:
They requested all my oil change info and all the previous owners service records. I don't keep a log I just use the reminder on the IP when 7000km is up it gets a change of fluids and filter.
I never received the logs from the PO or the OO

The sky is darkening, anyway I look spells trouble (monetary anyway)
legal is going to be expensive I'll need a third party teardown, hopefully one that can stand up to the David vrs Goliath
mess that will ensue.
I like the car it works well but I'm not putting 12k into it.
Thanks SS

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Ilya
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Talk to your insurance agent to see if they have any ideas, I'm sure you aren't the first person to go through this. Also call Infiniti Canada and open a case on the dealership.

Sucks about no records though, definitely would have helped you. I use a program called FleetVIP (free for one vehicle, like $30 for 4 or something) to keep track of ALL maintenance on my vehicles including my motorcycles. Down to the times I lube my chain on my bike or change my wipers on my car. Before that I used an Excel spreadsheet.

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This is appalling! This is how dealerships earn such low confidence and why lots of owners avoid going there. There is a very slim possibility that the engine was in the throws of it's last days with no symptoms, but there is absolutely NO way to prove or disprove that. Now, the dealership scrambles to find any way to avoid responsibility for the engine. The very LEAST the dealer should do is to offer some sort of reduction in the cost - possibly waiving labor charges. Clearly, the manufacturer's warranty is no longer in force, but there is a thing called scruples and clearly this dealer has none.
I suggest follow up with your local consumer affairs bureau, Infiniti corporate, law firms, and even the local news. Be such a royal pain that that everyone at that dealership develops a rash where they sit.

Alxgngb
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Damn... I was thinking about purchasing this car. This TC recall scares me...

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Ilya
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Alxgngb wrote:Damn... I was thinking about purchasing this car. This TC recall scares me...
As I answered in your other thread...it's just one car and unfortunately for the OP he's the owner of said car.

That being said, to add to Larz...if they really dont' play ball I'd make sure to go in there screaming and scare some customers away ;).

sugar4shawn
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Thanks for the reply's.
From my search this is the only engine to ever fail.
So don't be put off by my car!
They did something wrong or I suspect the oil nozzle that lubes the TC is faulty(if the story they told is true and there is nothing that can cause this with the R&R of said TC).

I contacted my insurance carrier, they will in no way cover this situation.
I also contacted our company council, unfortunately this is a very tough case to prove.
Most of it would be subjective, or opinions. The motor would have to be pulled, torn down and analyzed at my cost.
If We do find the "smoking gun" then yes I can go to small claims court.
Being the owner of said dealer ship is very well connected it would be a true David vs. Goliath situation.
Long winded, tiring case.
The dealership knows this and has the upper hand after all they are the Experts....right.
I feel like I may have hurt myself by not having it serviced at the dealership.
Sadly I didn't trust the $10/hour student to do my oil changes.

I'll update When I hear something new.
Thanks

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armybrat
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I had the timing chain recall performed on my '12 M56x. Like I've mentioned in the past, my experience was positive. The dealership did a wonderful job from start to finish. There are other folks here who had not so good experiences. The whole timing chain recall evolved from a faulty Bank 2 oil jet TSB. It started out with the QX56's and eventually expanded to the M56's. BTW you wouldn't have needed the transmission changed with this recall because that fluid along with the rest of your fluids is changed as part of the TC service. They should've told you that to start with when you took your car in the first time and you asked for a trans fluid change. Also I don't recall any ECM and TMC reprogramming as part of the timing chain recall, at least I didn't see that listed on my receipt. The recall calls for a new engine block if the oil jet hole is more than 3mm deep. Maybe your dealership installed the new oil jet anyway and this caused the whole bank to fail...

Read this, it explains the TSB (since expanded to include the M56's)
https://www.carmd.com/Tsb/Download/97518/1ty9

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wow man that suck, so what I'm hearing is if your car is at the dealer and something goes wrong like your motor fails your responsible for the repairs if your out of warranty. given the circumstances in this case man I just don' t understand how they could do that?

sugar4shawn
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Armybrat Thanks for the TSB!
Now you have me wondering if they even check the oil jet hole. guess I'll never really know what happened.
Infiniti has flat out denied any further investigation Ie: TC cover removal, intake or valve cover removal.
Basically said Pound it in your backside.

I'm barking up CS now saying 106k km(65k miles) is way to early for a motor to fail.

lovemycar35 you have no Idea LOL
My last ride was a VW Passat I hated that car but mileage was fantastic
The car before that was an 01 chevy cavalier I gave it to my nice with 300K still rolling to this day...OD broke at 340k
burns a little oil but it runs.
I made this purchase as I thought I work hard and I deserved a little "sugar" so I splurged on this luxury V8
been perfect till this SNAFU.
TY

lovemycarM35
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sugar4shawn wrote:Armybrat Thanks for the TSB!
Now you have me wondering if they even check the oil jet hole. guess I'll never really know what happened.
Infiniti has flat out denied any further investigation Ie: TC cover removal, intake or valve cover removal.
Basically said Pound it in your backside.

I'm barking up CS now saying 106k km(65k miles) is way to early for a motor to fail.

lovemycar35 you have no Idea LOL
My last ride was a VW Passat I hated that car but mileage was fantastic
The car before that was an 01 chevy cavalier I gave it to my nice with 300K still rolling to this day...OD broke at 340k
burns a little oil but it runs.
I made this purchase as I thought I work hard and I deserved a little "sugar" so I splurged on this luxury V8
been perfect till this SNAFU.
TY
yeah they f*** your motor up and they don't want to take responsibility for it. Infiniti makes a great motor but over the years they have been slacking on there build quality,

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armybrat
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I truly believe that the dealership makes all the difference in the world. I am fortunate in that so far, the one I use, Modern Infiniti in Winston-Salem, NC does great work. I always get my car back cleaned up both inside and out. No missing fasteners, residual fluids, fingerprints, cracked/broken/missing parts, scratches, etc. not one. Work is done correctly the first time, no having to take it back, etc. Always get a loaner no problem. I know a couple of the techs, and maybe it's because mine's the only M56 they get to service, so they know me and try and treat me right.

The only thing I had an issue with was tire balancing, when I did my first tire rotation. They could not get the tires balanced for crap. I was even referred to another Infiniti dealership in Greensboro, who had a more advanced road force balancing machine. It was better but not as good as it should've been. I ended up going to a Meineke shop and they got it right. I will say that neither dealership charged me for trying though.

With that said, sugar4shawn, have you tried another dealership? Maybe it's a long shot, but you may have better luck.

sugar4shawn
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I have some interesting news for the members here.
I have not heard a thing from Dott (directly that is) only second hand rumours since Friday the 10th
Dott calls this morning and said they took it upon themselves to get to the bottom of this situation.
They pulled the pan off, The Techs first comment was "this thing is spotless"!(looking up at the internals)
His very next comment was "ah crap this is not a good sign, Look at all the brass shavings scattered in the pan"
apparently these motors run aluminum mains and lower rod bearings, but run a brass bushed wristpin.

So the dealership was correct the timing chain recall had nothing to do with this failure!

I feel relived as my dealership is not trying to pull one over on me.
I also feel appalled this could happen to a motor I took such good care of.
Like full synthetic oils, factory oil filters, intake filters & best replacement parts money could buy for the wear items.

SO now I have to ask is synthetic oil any better when you don't exceed the oil change intervals?

So just so you all know I'm a straight shooter. I tell it like I see it.
I had to get myself off the floor, I still can't believe I heard what I heard!
Infiniti is going to replace the entire engine!
A complete drop in replacement all sensors everything that's attached to the motor less the accessory drives(alt, pwr steering)
Talk about a change in direction!
All they requested was I get a rental car for a few weeks until the motor comes in from Japan....NP done.

IF this dose not restore hope that a car company cares about its image and its customers...than my friends nothing will.
I'll post back when she comes home and with any new news.
Last edited by sugar4shawn on Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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CRV_33
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I'm glad Infiniti is coming through and replacing the engine with a brand new one and everything attached to it. Sucks about paying for the rental out of pocket, but its a lot better than paying out of pocket for a brand new motor. Keep us posted!

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Ilya
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Wow. Glad it worked out for you. I'd get the absolute cheapest rental possible, or pay a friend $200 and use their car if someone had a spare lol.

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Wow, you know when people say their hope in (corporate) humanity is restored? Then this is it for me. I'm truly happy both parties agreed to help you in the ways they could.

But I'm still quite skeptical as to WHY things happened so suddenly. Yeah, the timing components won't chew your wrist pins, but something else must have happened in there.
Even if someone forgot to top off the oil, I expect the bearings on the lower/big end of the connecting rod as well as the camshaft bearings to go first. Wrist pins, I don't see going often so I'm stumped.

I'm pretty sure Infiniti is just as curious to learn from this failure as much as I am. Is it possible to request for a report/update after their investigation? :ohno:
sugar4shawn wrote:SO now I have to ask is synthetic oil any better when you don't exceed the oil change intervals?
I'll bite for the controversial topic. If all you need the oil for is to extend your range/oil change interval, go for it. If you still change your oil out at 3,000 miles, then you're not gaining much from it, but neither should it be harming your engine.

sugar4shawn
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EdBwoy

I'm not sure how to take your first comment. :-)
I'm not saying the world will change with this one act of good will, but it defiantly changed my world for the better.
I'm not versed in the components in and or what is used in these motors. I would have thought aluminum coating over copper with brass under support.

I'm more than curious, I'll ask to be keep in the loop. we all need to know what went wrong so suddenly.
its not like it had a knock or a rough run condition nothing suggested a problem, its always had a bit of a stumble when shifting softly into second gear. If your harder on the throttle no stumble.

In my boats I never use a full synthetic as the lifter wheels tend to slide not roll on the camshafts(push rod motors).
I have no experience with these new 4 valve DOHC motors they make now days.
That said I have chewed up a few BBC's in my time trying to make an old Catamaran run 150mph
I agree 1000% the first thing to fail from lack of oil is the big end rod bearings then the mains from pump forward.
At least that's what happens when your pump pickup snaps off form all the pounding a boat takes.

Oil question is based on info that these 5.6L motors are supposed to be run on a type of organic oil(not the dinosaur type LOL) .
I know nothing about this type of oil.... not even sure Infiniti uses it at the dealership?

I'm going to have the motor & trans mounts changed out while they have the car apart, all fluids just to be safe.
Any other suggestions from you fine folks?
TY

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That's great man, I'm so glad there fixing your car and I'm sure your stoked !!!

sugar4shawn
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Lovemycar

I have experienced the floored this happened, now the floored they said they are going to fix
I'm stoked to say the least.
I was so disgusted.
Now so relived... 6 k for a used motor is a risk, 12k is a ton of dough for a car worth 19k
I purchased gun metal 20's two years ago I think its time they get installed :dblthumb:

BTW Infiniti decided to pay for my rental!!!
What change of events
:werd:

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armybrat
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sugar4shawn wrote:Lovemycar

I have experienced the floored this happened, now the floored they said they are going to fix
I'm stoked to say the least.
I was so disgusted.
Now so relived... 6 k for a used motor is a risk, 12k is a ton of dough for a car worth 19k
I purchased gun metal 20's two years ago I think its time they get installed :dblthumb:

BTW Infiniti decided to pay for my rental!!!
What change of events
:werd:
Man I'm glad they're taking care of you...about the rental, my dealership has always furnished me a loaner, even for routine service. I've never had to pay for a rental or a loaner. Only thing is that they ask you to call ahead if possible. When my car threw an exhaust valve timing control code and I had to immediately go to the dealership for the TC recall, my service advisor let me drive a Q70L since it was an emergency and that was the only car they had available which was usually reserved for the employees.

Anyway, best of luck and let us know how it turns out!

sugar4shawn
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I keep you posted.

sugar4shawn
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Its time I update everyone.

After much Delay I picked up my car last night! 10 days shy of 2 months.
Car was spotless inside and out!
Motor runs perfect, no lights shaking or other hiccups.
I still have one little issue it stalls on start up if I don't give it a little throttle input(3 attempts w/o my input this morning).
I had all the fluids changed and everything serviced that should be done.
I think I should have done the injectors(had them cleaned) but was told it was a complete motor not a "long block".
The shudder they said would go away with the TCR is still present(but it has done this since day one).
I took the long way home through stop and go traffic to giver her a nice break in.
Told me this good will repair was well north of 14K.
I figure this whole fiasco cost more than the cars trade value :gotme

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Ilya
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I have a small hiccup/almost stall on really really cold days...has it been cold where you are still? It's in the 40's now here.

sugar4shawn
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Ilya

It was about 33-34 degrees this morning.
It has done this in the past when very cold (-20 though -40)
I'm sure its still tight being a new motor maybe it will go away on its own.

sugar4shawn
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Update on replacement engine.
running perfect.
no reason given for prior engine failure(basically they don't know what happed)
I do have a tip for everyone running in blizzard or extremely rainy weather: use only Nissan intake air filters!
In my hast to get my car serviced I put in a set of Fram intake filters. Huge mistake they denigrated and went through the engine resulting in a no run plug foul condition.
requiring a full tune up, injector service, plug R&R filters and mass air meter cleaning.
1200 later plus the flat bed service to the dealer (didn't have time to do this one)

Yoda's Master
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WTF, took almost 3 years to get you a new motor?
I'm glad you got a replacement.

sugar4shawn
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YM
It took the better part of 5 months to get it resolved.
with another 5-6 months of chasing issues stemming from the R&R of the motor.
I have had 50K trouble free miles since we got it straitened out(the filter issue is my fault).
I took on different responsibilities in which I didn't have access to this PC.
I'm back on my old PC again and it remember my "user name"


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