timing chain guide removal for KA24E?
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kouki_monstor
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:22 am
- Car: '92 180sx
timing chain guide removal for KA24E?
my engines been making really nasty knocking sounds, but not on start-up or when its idling, but when its in drive and at about 2k-3k rpm. it sounds like the "metal-in-tin-can" sound that has been associated with the timing chain guide. when i step on the gas a bit more to get to higher rpms, then it goes away, but comes back when i drive it in the low rpms. this sound isnt consistent though, sometimes it knocks sometimes it doesnt, but more often than not. im just wondering if this could be the timing chain guide thats causing all this noise, or is it the valves like ive been told? the problem is all the timing chain guide removals have been associated with DOHC ka's, but I own a SOHC ka, so i really dont know if its the same story. if anyone has any info on whether that sound is the timing chain guide and if it could be removed in a KA24E, please let me know. thanks!
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kouki_monstor
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:22 am
- Car: '92 180sx
^^^^hhahahahha...kinda random...musta been real drunk..
anyways. he is right about it either being the timing chain or the rob bearings...seriously..i just replaced a whole timing chain the other day on a car that not only had a bad chain but a bad bearing..ad about 5 miles down the road the engine blew...not really a problem i just bought a different motor..you just need to absolutly make sure its your chain..it would have been nothing for me to just pull the bearing when the pan was dropped but iwth my lack of common sence sometimes i didnt do it..but generally with a bearing it get progressively gets worse at high rate of speed...where as a timing chain the bish just stays bad and will get worse over a much longer period of time..what i would do is pop off the valve cover and get a long screw diver( a pry bar would be best) and find something to pry against and see how much your tensioner has pushed out...if you can compress it about 3/4 of an inch it would be in your best interest to replace it...now whether your up to the task of replacing the chain or just replacing the motor that is completely up to you.. personally i would replace the chain and be done with it. but sometimes the motor is soo old other things need to be replaced so you need to determine for youself the condition of your motor, by checking the compression, how much oil it burns, and what not...
sorry for the long *** post but jus trying to help
anyways. he is right about it either being the timing chain or the rob bearings...seriously..i just replaced a whole timing chain the other day on a car that not only had a bad chain but a bad bearing..ad about 5 miles down the road the engine blew...not really a problem i just bought a different motor..you just need to absolutly make sure its your chain..it would have been nothing for me to just pull the bearing when the pan was dropped but iwth my lack of common sence sometimes i didnt do it..but generally with a bearing it get progressively gets worse at high rate of speed...where as a timing chain the bish just stays bad and will get worse over a much longer period of time..what i would do is pop off the valve cover and get a long screw diver( a pry bar would be best) and find something to pry against and see how much your tensioner has pushed out...if you can compress it about 3/4 of an inch it would be in your best interest to replace it...now whether your up to the task of replacing the chain or just replacing the motor that is completely up to you.. personally i would replace the chain and be done with it. but sometimes the motor is soo old other things need to be replaced so you need to determine for youself the condition of your motor, by checking the compression, how much oil it burns, and what not...
sorry for the long *** post but jus trying to help
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kouki_monstor
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:22 am
- Car: '92 180sx
haha thanks for the reply. i personally have never looked inside my valve cover so i have no idea what youre talking about. i dont know what a compression check either (noob alert, i know). how hard would it be to replace the rod bearing in comparison to the chain? or both? and if i check and the tensioner is out then its the chain? i kinda get what youre saying but im still alittle confused.. lol
ok first of all i dont want to be an *** but changing a timing chain is a pretty advanced repair...if ou dont kno what a compression test is then i would just either get a mechanic to do it or ....uhhhh....get someone to replace the motor....and to replace the bearings you would have to remove the motor mount nuts and jack the engine up as much as you can and remove the bolts on the pan (after you drain ALL of the oil) and remove the bolts from the rod and examine the bearings...if they are bad then you would more then likely have to drop the crank and get it machined/ resurfaced...that would involver removing the motor...so in your interest i would have someone reputable...
Well, it sounds to me like your chain and/or tensioner are the problem, and this is why I say that... The noise you described is pretty close to what a ratlling timing chain sounds like, and it make sense that it would go away at high RPM, where the momentum and centrifugal force is keeping it pressed firmly against the guide. I would suggest the prybar tensioner test that tonynalli mentioned. If the tensioner compresses too much for comfort, then replace it along with the chain, make DAMN sure your timing is right, put it all back together, and fire it up. If the noise goes away, problem solved. If the noise doesn't go away, then maybe your rod bearings are bad. Luckily, you won't have to un-do anything you just did in order to fix those as well. Timing chain probably isn't too advanced as long as you have a way to make SURE your timing is right when you get done, but I wouldn't recommend replacing your own bearings without help. Oh by the way if you want to compression test your motor, you can buy the gauge at any auto parts store, anywhere from $20 to $50. Just remove a spark plug, screw the gauge into the hole, unplug your fuel pump and turn the motor over a couple times with the starter. 150-170psi is a good healthy motor, anything drastically less than that could mean any number of serious problems. Good luck.
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kouki_monstor
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:22 am
- Car: '92 180sx
hey thanks alot for the helpful reply! well since the timing chain is alot less advanced to repair than the rod bearings, it wouldnt hurt to try. im just still a little confused as to how the tensioner test works. do i stick a pry bar in there (where?) and just pry against anything and see how much it goes in? and would i have to replace the chain along with the tensioner? or just one or the other? do u know about how much it would cost to replace? and another thing, how would i be able to make sure my timing is right? sorry for all the dumb questions. thanks for all the help once again!
hey before u go and spend money. i used to have a noise in the mid rpm's aswell. i also thought it was the timing chain. turns out it was because i was running on ****ty *** 87 grade. now i run 93 and i haven't heard a peep since. i would say try this first. it can't hurt. now would anyone think i have a timing issue causing me to run well only on 93oct??
you were pinging....
before you start on the timing chain replacement make sure you are in tdc..not bdc..and when you replace timing chains it is best if you replace the gears also...i will get dogged on here from all the people that are like "i didnt change the gear and it worked fine" yeah whatever...the sides of the gears wear down when the chain is rubbing to much on one side...and they only cost about 20-40 bucks...9 times outta 10 the guides dont need to be replaced..guides are there only to lower the amount of lash that happens when you get off the throttle...if yours are broken replace them.. if they look like there is only a litlte wear on them keep them...and when you are tighening the bolt on the cams..dont be a stupid and put your impact gun on the cam and just go all out...there is a spot on the cam that a wrench will attach on there..they put that there for a reason..if you dont have the right size wrench then put a monkey wrench on it..and try to find some place on the top of the head to support it..bascially you dont want the cams to move when you are tighening the bolt down..
if you dont kno what TDC is on your crank there are like 5 I i I I I I on your pully that look kinda like this.. the one that is not capitalized is the one that TDC is on..and also look at the distributor and make sure the rotor is on the no.1 spark plug wire....i belive its at like 10 oclock...but not sure.
and it is absolutly imperative that you clean and double clean all surfaces that the silicone will go back on...when you are done cleaning them get a paper towle and spray some throttle body cleaner on it and re-wipe the surfaces down to remove and moisture on it...
when you lay the bead of silicone down make sure it is a complete and solid bead..i use THE RIGHT STUFF by mr. gasket i belive..it come in a can with a littel tip on it.. all you have to do is pull a little lever and it comes out like cheese in a can...best stuff ever...it allows you to make a perfect bead everytime...and if you can warm it up by filling a bowl of HOT HOT water and letting it sit in it for a litlte while it will come out a litlte better also...but it does cost about 13 bucks..but trust me ive laid down my share of gaskets in my life and i wouldnt ever use anything else...make sure to go on the inside of the bolt holes.
i really wish i would have done a "how to" on a timing chain install the other day..but im working on an s14motor in an s13 right now...but...good luck if you do decide to do the chain yourselfsorry for the book you have to read..
before you start on the timing chain replacement make sure you are in tdc..not bdc..and when you replace timing chains it is best if you replace the gears also...i will get dogged on here from all the people that are like "i didnt change the gear and it worked fine" yeah whatever...the sides of the gears wear down when the chain is rubbing to much on one side...and they only cost about 20-40 bucks...9 times outta 10 the guides dont need to be replaced..guides are there only to lower the amount of lash that happens when you get off the throttle...if yours are broken replace them.. if they look like there is only a litlte wear on them keep them...and when you are tighening the bolt on the cams..dont be a stupid and put your impact gun on the cam and just go all out...there is a spot on the cam that a wrench will attach on there..they put that there for a reason..if you dont have the right size wrench then put a monkey wrench on it..and try to find some place on the top of the head to support it..bascially you dont want the cams to move when you are tighening the bolt down..
if you dont kno what TDC is on your crank there are like 5 I i I I I I on your pully that look kinda like this.. the one that is not capitalized is the one that TDC is on..and also look at the distributor and make sure the rotor is on the no.1 spark plug wire....i belive its at like 10 oclock...but not sure.
and it is absolutly imperative that you clean and double clean all surfaces that the silicone will go back on...when you are done cleaning them get a paper towle and spray some throttle body cleaner on it and re-wipe the surfaces down to remove and moisture on it...
when you lay the bead of silicone down make sure it is a complete and solid bead..i use THE RIGHT STUFF by mr. gasket i belive..it come in a can with a littel tip on it.. all you have to do is pull a little lever and it comes out like cheese in a can...best stuff ever...it allows you to make a perfect bead everytime...and if you can warm it up by filling a bowl of HOT HOT water and letting it sit in it for a litlte while it will come out a litlte better also...but it does cost about 13 bucks..but trust me ive laid down my share of gaskets in my life and i wouldnt ever use anything else...make sure to go on the inside of the bolt holes.
i really wish i would have done a "how to" on a timing chain install the other day..but im working on an s14motor in an s13 right now...but...good luck if you do decide to do the chain yourselfsorry for the book you have to read..