timing chain death imminent: what to do?

[Yorb]

welp, i finally took my 240 in to get it looked at because of the strange rattle at idle. apparently it needs a new timing chain, guy said it was a 12 hour job and would probably be $900-1000. =(

it's a '92 s13... stock everything. so my questions are as follows:

1. how long should i expect it to last as is? i realize that i need to do something before it goes, or else i'll have a whole shot engine

2. is that a reasonable price? the 240sx.org faq says $500-700, which would be considerably nicer, but still a pain in the wallet.

3. my engine has over 150k miles on it. would this be a smart time for an SR swap? if so, how much can i expect to pay for that? i don't have the know-how to do it myself, or even garagespace to do it in.

argh way to ruin my summer :<

thanks

[240Knightrider]

Mine rattle for a little while but went away. But a nice little noise started about three days ago and just got worse. I would do it myself to save money.

[extheflow]

i bet it still has alot of life in it...it probably hasn't had the top guide removed.read up on removing the top guide and replacing the tensioner while your in there...it isn't really that hard.the chain should last well beyond 150k. if you're just looking for an excuse for a transplant though...this is as good as any.

[Yorb]

hm. thanks for responses. the mechanic seemed to think it could go any time and it needed to be replaced. he discovered this after opening it up and checking it out, and he of course knows about the 240 chain guide issue, so i'd think he would have taken it out if he thought it would be smart.

anyway...i have no engine smarts and no garage or anything (not even a concrete pad) to do it in, plus i dont know anybody that could help, and if its a 12 hour job for someoned that knows what they're doing, it could be months for me. =( heck i dont do anything but change the oil.

needless to say i'm pretty pissed off. i dont see any way out of paying the money and having it done. after looking at sr20 prices, i really think thats more than i wanna do right now.

[rico05]

Mine ratteled because the lower guide blew up. Ran fine (although loud) for anout 9 weeks. Last week, the motor went AWOL. Pulled TC covers and found out about the guide and how the extra slack had eaten into the water jacket and mixed lovely coolant in with my oil and vice versa. If you plan on keeping the KA for at least another 6 months, get it fixed the best way. In order to do it your self, you need to pull valve cover, TC covers, oil pan, all belts and such, then get to the lower chain after pulling off the upper one. PITA. I bought a CA instead;) $1200 shipped and will be better than the KA it replaces;)

If you got the $1000, get it done. If you can afford the $3000 for a solid SR swap, go for that. Or do neither and let it go boom.

[Yorb]

rico - i ran into all your drama when i was searching the forums before i posted. sorry to hear about the KA death, but i hope the CA goes well =D

thing is i'm living at home right now, but probably not for more than a year more, so i need to save money. so while i have the cash for an SR swap i really dont wanna do it. i figure if i do the chain now then i can get a few more years out of the car and re-evalute when the engine does finally bite it for whatever reason.

by the way, i just called around and came up with the following:- my original mechanic says rough estimate of $900-1000.- 2nd mechanic says $850 labor, $350 for the parts kit. total of $1200.- 3rd mechanic immediately says "no" after i give him the model and year. he says to take it to the dealer because there are some 'special parts' you need for the job and if you dont have them you could screw it up.- dealer says he cant count how many times he's done the timing chain on these 240s, and 90% of the time its just the top guide, but if its the whole thing then they would charge $150-400 for parts, $1200 for labor.

=/ maybe i'll call my original mechanic and ask him what exactly he saw that made him want to replace the entire thing, and maybe ill pop the cover and look at it myself this weekend (where's the how-to for checking the top guide again?)

[fiznat]

doesnt anyone else think that 12 hours is a little bit excessive for a timing chain change?? I understand its gotta be kinda a pain with the engine in the car and all that, but TWELVE hours?? C'omon. I've never done it with the engine in the car before, but I'm sure I could easially get it done in less than half that time no problem.

...and the CHAIN is "about to go anytime?" I seriously doubt it. Have you seen those chains? They're double wide and pretty damn beefy... I seriously find it hard to beleive that the chain itself is almost gone. It's a non-wear item to begin with. The tensioners might be going, I'd beleive that.... but THAT is DEFINETLY no 12 hour job.

Sounds like a shady mechanic to me.

[Yorb]

hmmmm. thanks fiz... that's interesting. he said it was a 10-12 hour job, because you had to remove 'the whole front end'. he said it was probably due to not changing the oil on time, and the lubricating nozzles or something got clogged. i didnt know wtf he was saying. which is kind of silly because ive been taking it to jiffy lube on the exact dates (within a couple days), which is less than 3k miles. last time i changed it myself and took the liberty of putting the good stuff (mobil 1) in because JL is getting too freaking expensive.

wasnt there like a service bulletin on these chains though? i seem to remember reading that somewhere. but if its just the tensioners and guides that break, wouldnt that be a less expensive job? or would it still be $1k because they have to take the whole thing apart.

cuz what happened to rico05 sounded like some guides bit the dust and then his chain flapped around and caused trouble.

for the moment im going to keep driving it (dont have much choice) and if something really bad happens, well, we'll know what the problem was. otherwise its kind of a mystery. ;D

[SHIFTrl240]

i had a rattle, but then last weekend i felt like investigating, so i took off my top timing cover and noticed that the drivers side guide on the upper chain had grooves in it from the chain hitting it, so i removed it and now theres no rattle, just has that bad injector ticking noise that kas have at idle... im a happy camper

[tex240]

did you have to remove anything other then the vallve cover to get at the guide on the side? i am having the same dillema about getting it fixed. mine has been going on for a while. the chain itself looks fine i am just worried about the tensioner and guides.

[navysnail]

dont forget that the 12 hours is a "flat rate" he could probobly do it in half the time.if your tight on cash, you could always get a used ka again for like 500

[BadMojo]

- 3rd mechanic immediately says "no" after i give him the model and year. he says to take it to the dealer because there are some 'special parts' you need for the job and if you dont have them you could screw it up.

LOL...that's pretty scary. Are you sure he was a mechanic and not just some guy hanging around the shop?

If by special parts he means tensioners, chains, guides and bolts...i guess, yeah.

If you're lucky, what the dealer said about the upper chain is your only problem and it won't be nearly as expensive as the quotes you got.

BTW, I'm very much looking forward to doing my timing chain during my vacation this May/June. Errr...no, not really.

[extheflow]

did you have to remove anything other then the vallve cover to get at the guide on the side? i am having the same dillema about getting it fixed. mine has been going on for a while. the chain itself looks fine i am just worried about the tensioner and guides.

yeah..you gotta take off the front engine cover to get at the side tensioner,wich iirc entails removing the fan,fanshroud,belts, and the crank pulley.it's a bit of a pain,but definitly worth the 1k you'll save.

[extheflow]

BTW courtesy nissan used to sell(and probably still do) a timing chain kit,that sets you up with all the parts to replace the guides,tensioner and chain.i think i paid about 130$ for it when i built my old KA.you probably don't need all that,but if you plan on keeping the engine around for awhile it can't hurt to do it while you've got it all broke down

[Stuntman240]

alos hit up the water and oil pumps while you're at it

[Yorb]

anyone near durham, NC that's willing to help me with the timing chain? we can work something out.

if not then it looks like i'm out $1k. =/ i've perused the fsm instructions (which are of course assuming you know things like what the hell a distributor is and how to set it at TDC, and assuming you have things like a torque wrench), and the possiblity of me being able to do it without a 240sx guru and without a garage or any tools, are slim to none. i hate spending money but i think i'm at the mercy of the mechanics this time around.

[SHIFTrl240]

you still have to remove the upper timing cover to gain access to the drivers side guide on the upper chain, but its easy to get off. just a bunch of bolts and a screwdriver to pry it off. you also need some rtv to put it back on.

you don't need to remove any of the belts etc to get to the upper chain, only the lower chain. i was planning on doing the whole chain replacement thing until i got into the dirt, and saw that id pretty much have to strip down the starter and all the pumps etc. and i said **** it, if it blows i'll just get a ca or sr or something. i then looked at just the upper chain and noticed the grooves in the drivers side guide. i had nothing to lose so i took it off and now it has no rattle at all. fixed timing chain: $0.00

[Yorb]

i just got off the phone with the guy that gave me the original diagnosis. he said he felt some 'slack' in the chain which is why he said it needed to all be replaced. he said you cant just put new tensioners because its replaced as a kit or whatever. why cant you just stick new tensioners in there? the chain is non-wear, is it not?

sorry if i'm stupid =P still trying to justify the $1k is all. also could someone briefly tell me what it means to set the distributor at TDC? thats the only part of the FSM instructions i really really dont understand.

[rico05]

You can just stick new tensioners in. I really love mechanics who like to rape people for money. http://www.courtesy-nissan.com/Ask them for the parts.

The chain is non wear. It is a chain...chains don't wear out. Even mine was in damn near perfect shape after all its drama.

[Yorb]

thanks rico. =) so according to the fsm, there are only 2 tensioners, and they're both near the top of the engine block. would you say this job could be significantly easier than doing the whole chain thing? say yes? please? ;D the fsm goes through taking the distributor and cams and cylinder head and stuff off first, but is it conceivable that you could bypass some of this mumbo jumbo and go straight at the tensioners?

does anyone think this is a BAD idea?

sorry for all the questions. =)