Alright guys, I've always been a pretty die hard Mac fan. I'm wanting to get further into gaming and downloading more stuff, so I'm looking into building my own desktop. I've done a lot of researching on here and other PC forums, and wanted to run a few things by you computer guru's.

So, here is the layout I have in my mind. Keep in mind, I'm new into gaming (Diablo II mainly, a little bit of C&C, Portal, etc.)

CPU - AMD Phenom II x4 955 BE
MoBo - Asus M4A79XTD EVO
RAM - Kingston 4gb (2x2gb)
HDD - WD Caviar Blue 500gb
Video card - Radeon 5450 (this will be upgraded later on once I get further into gaming)
Power - Something in the 500-600w range

This will all be put into a cheap CoolerMaster Elite 310 case.

I'm also wondering if I need to buy a sound card with all this. I was looking at a cheaper Asus Xoner DX PCI 7.1 unit.

My question to you guys, is this a decent set up for a complete newbie like me? Too much? Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks!

A couple things:

The Phenom II will work in AM2+ or AM3 motherboards. AM3 mobos will require DDR3, while AM2+ will take DDR2. You might be able to save some cash by going with DDR2. Prices are about the same these days, but sometimes DDR2's a bit cheaper. DDR3 will provide better performance and having a DDR3-ready mobo will mean you'll be less likely to run into upgrade problems down the road, but it's worth weighting the two options.

As for processor:
For about 50 bucks more, you can get the new 6-core Phenom X6 in 1055 guise. It's a little slower than the 955 X4 (2.8GHz vs3.2 GHz) so you just need to decide if two more cores or .4GHz matters more to you.
Also, the 955 is a Black Edition chip, which means it has unlocked multipliers if you ever want to overclock. The 1055 is not (there is a black edition X6, but it goes for $300...still a steal, but double the price of a 955).

You might as well get a 1TB hard drive. Price difference is negligible. Unless you want to keep your OS on a separate drive (good for gaming performance) in which case I'd say go for a 500 or 1TB drive for games and a 250GB for the OS.

For sound card:
The mobo has onboard audio, so you don't NEED one. But a $20 Sound Blaster is almost guaranteed to be an upgrade over the onboard sound.

Also, I posted this in response to your comments in another thread:

MinisterofDOOM wrote:Read this:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gam ... ,2620.html

And this:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gra ... ,2621.html

And these:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/bui ... ,2469.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/bal ... ,2477.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/bal ... ,2625.html

Awesome, those links help a TON.

I am hesitant to go AM2+ seeing how it doesn't support DDR3, but is DDR3 really that much better than DDR2 for someone like me? Actually, upon further inspection, I see that my MacBook has 2gb of DDR2 and I am more than happy with this computer (aside from the gaming factor, obviously), so I think DDR2 may be just fine for me.

For the CPU, I'm not gonna need 6 cores. I'm a newbie, 4 is plenty. If, later on, I delve further into all this, maybe. But for now, I think the x4 will suffice. And like you said, the BE is set up to OC, and I want to explore that realm as well.

As far as the HDD goes, I was debating doing 2 HDD's. Actually, the exact sizes you suggested, in WD Caviar Blue. What worries me is that, being very new to this, will I be able to notice any drastic difference if I don't run the OS on a seperate drive?

The real noticable difference in multiple drives will come if you're actually running multiple programs at once. Watching a movie (player installed to one drive) and playing a game (installed to another drive).
Running your OS and games on the same drive isn't a performance killer or anything, it's just that having them separated can improve responsiveness at times (when launching programs, multitasking, alt+tabbing, etc. assuming you've installed things separately).

The big thing with DDR3 is that eventually DDR2 will be phased out. So when you want to upgrade in a couple years...DDR3 will be plentiful (and probably cheap) and DDR2 might not be. And remember: the more popular something is, the cheaper it is (due to more being produced and sold). Despite AGP being inferior to PCI-E, for the last couple years of AGP's use, AGP versions of cards were much more expensive because they were so uncommon.

4 cores is indeed probably enough. But software is finally taking advantage of threaded processing, which means, especially if you're multitasking, more cores is pretty much always better. If you want to watch a movie and play a game, more cores helps. Especially if both your movie player and your game are optimized for threaded processing (using multiple cores). Lots of games are starting to make good use of threaded processors, and lots of media software already does as well. As things move forward, that'll only become more true.

But, since the Phenom x6 uses the same socket (AM2+/AM3) as your 955, you can always just upgrade later if you feel the need.

Yea, I think for now I'll go with either the 955 or 965 Black. Seems like a pretty good starting point. If need be, I'll upgrade later.

Thanks a lot for the help. Hopefully I'll get this s*** ordered soon and build this bish and get back into D2 (or D3, if Blizzard decides to get off their a** and release that damned game already)

If only you had a microcenter out there. They have a couple of intel i7 processors for around that $200 mark (for the $40 increase I would easily select an i7 over either the 955 or 965).

I agree on the RAM discussion above as well. When one of my older computers started to take a dump on me the lack of ddr (not 2 or 3, it was old) basically forced me to do a full upgrade (it was welcome, cost more money, but huge performance gains). At this point in time, ddr3 has come down in price enough that, IMO, it would be foolish to go ddr2. Remember, the ddr3 and ddr2 dimms are not identical, so if you go ddr2 now you will need to replace the mobo later if you want to jump to ddr3. As a security blanket from having to do this, ddr3 may be be the better choice now (since it is only slightly more expensive than ddr2 in most cases).

Just adding my two cents with this one. Seems like MoD has you pretty well covered. As far as the HDD goes, put a decent sized drive in now (1TB+) and save for a solid state drive later. The prices are dropping on them, and the performance makes you sh*t bricks. Also, I wouldn't spend the money on a sound card. I've been running on-board for at least 5 years now and don't have any major issues. The only way I would consider switching to a dedicated sound card would be to run the pc through my home theater setup (even then, I might not spend the money). In fact, my home theater pc is running on-board sound (but that is used primarily for listening to mp3s and playing tv shows I've downloaded so quality isn't the highest priority).

Would I be correct in assuming you're planning on buying all this from Newegg?

Newegg / tigerdirect. Both have good prices. I'm looking into details for everything now. Hopefully i will be able to start ordering parts this week.

Well, if the option sounds good enough to you, check out the prices from microcenter (website) on some of the cpus. They don't have the crazy selection of newegg, but these prices are somewhat ridiculous. If you're interested, I could almost certainly grab one and ship it out (but shipping and tax would add on to the cost you see there). Still comes out cheaper than the etailers.

Ill have to check out that site when I get home. Don't feel like searching it on my droid right now. Thanks for all the info guys, my brain is being packed full with stuff I nver understood before. Starting to get it though.

Also, what are you thought on the i5 cpu? I can't afford a i7, but would I be better off with amd or intel? I have a feeling this is like the ps vs. Xbox debate though... haha.

I would step up to the 1055t for a few bucks more. If you use bing cashback you can get 10% off at tigerdirect. I got my 1055t the first day it came out. Got 10% off and a $50 rebate! Nothing like a brand new 6 core CPU for $130

I'd go with an AM3 board now. DDR2 and DDR3 are priced the same right now. If history has shown us anything DDR2 will increase in price and DDR3 will decrease.

For the games you listed the 5450 will be fine.

If you can afford it I would wait a little while and spend ~$100 on a 5770. This is a whole different class then the 5450 and will play all current games at moderate settings.

Your best bet is to watch http://www.slickdeals.net for good deals.

I would use onboard sound. Actually, I would use the sound processor built in to the videocard, but that's only if you're connecting via HDMI to a TV and/or receiver for sound.

I would (unfortunately) have to agree with PMQ on the ram. I basically stated the same thing earlier, but I think he elaborated a bit and made the point more clearly. DDR2 will continue to get more expensive and DDR3 will drop in price. If you ever need to upgrade or replace something in the future, it will almost definitely be cheaper if you have components that support DDR3.

As far as the processor goes, I would probably take the i5 over the AMD 955/965, but that is a very close call. I would definitely take an i7 over the 1055/1090. For the record, that is not me being a fanboy. My first few builds were exclusively AMD since I couldn't justify the price of going intel. However, the performance of the current intels is worth any cost differential IMO (especially considering the cost is fairly similar). Then again, part of that might be my ability to obtain the i7 860 or 930 for $200. Even at $130 for the AMD 1055 (which is a pretty stellar deal), I'd probably spend my money on the i7 930 for $70 more. But, if you follow my spending habits I tend to throw money at stuff I don't necessarily need. If you're looking for a good read, check out this review:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3674/amds ... t-reviewed

I love anandtech. That site has a way of explaining things so that even I can understand them. I'm no computer genius by any means, but even as a simpleton enthusiast it tends to make some sense. You can see some of the performance benchmarks there as well. I'll admit that benchmarks don't mean everything, but they can be a decent indicator of capabilities.

As far as the video card goes, I'll have to step aside and let others give advice on the ATI cards. I've never used one. All my PCs have utilized Nvidia cards, but a lot of that has to do with the fact that they tend to play nicer with Linux (which is useful to me, but I'm in the minority here). For a long time Nvidia dominated the gpu market, but things have changed slightly over the past year or so. ATI has put out some excellent cards (again, based on reviews and not first-hand experience).

Any way you slice it, though, this desktop will destroy your laptop for what you are planning on using it for. I don't think you'll be disappointed with any of these options.

On the power supply. Make sure to get a good quality one. You should expect to pay atleast $50(on sale) for this component alone. I personally used an Antec Earthwatts 650w PSU in my latest build. It's powering an Nvidia GTX295 no problem

If you think of the motherboard as a city, the power supply would literally be the electric company. Cheap PSUs tend to, but not always, give unstable, and sometimes unreliable, power. Definitely not a good thing for your components.

You forgot the version of windows you'll be using. I recommend Windows 7 Home Premium or Pro 64bit.

I work in a computer shop with access to a lot of computers. I install windows a lot. Sometimes I need a product key when the computer doesn't have one on it. I'll just use the product key from another OEM computer. This works fine.

If you have a buddy that has a newer computer with Windows 7 on it you can use the product key from their computer. I have found that these keys are usually good for 3 activations within a one month period. Then it's blocked until the next month.

This could save you ~$129 on your build while giving you a legitimate installation

I was planning on Win7 Premium 64bit. I have no use for Pro or Ultimate. So, what your saying is that if someone I know has a new win7 disk, I can put it on my computer with the same activation code? Cause my uncle is buying a new PC sometime soon. But if it comes pre-loaded with win7, does that mean I can't use it? Or will it still come with the physical disk?

As for the CPU, your making me want an x6 now damnit. I'm still not sure I can justify the hike in price though, since this will be my very first build. I'm still leaning toward a 955 or 965 Black. If I can get a good deal on an x6, I'll jump on it though.

The MoBo will be an AM3 for sure. And RAM will be DDR3. I might as well go for the newer ones since the DDR2 and AM2+ are being phased out.

For power I was looking at something in the 500-650w area. Not sure on specifics yet, but I was planning on something in the price range you stated.

AppleBonker wrote:Then again, part of that might be my ability to obtain the i7 860 or 930 for $200.

Umm, Yes please?

Unless the price difference is only $10 between the 955 and 965 I would go with the 955. This is, of course, assuming that you will not be overclocking. The stock speeds are so close that you won't notice.

Make sure you get a revision C2. You can tell these by their power rating of 125w. Not much difference, just a refinement in the cores that allows them to run cooler.

For the operating system. You may be able to use his disc. A lot of OEMs include a "restore disc" which isn't a standard install, but rather their customized install. These can not be used. Either way, the product key can be used. Here's a link to a torrent for an unhacked legitimate Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit disc. Link to torrent deleted by Moderator This has not been modified.

If you don't mind, there is actually a modified bios for that motherboard that implements the Dell OEM SLIC tables. What this does is allows you to use a Dell windows disc to install and you won't ever need a product key. I have this installed on my AsRock and Asus motherboards and it works like a charm.

ADDirishboy wrote:

AppleBonker wrote:Then again, part of that might be my ability to obtain the i7 860 or 930 for $200.

Umm, Yes please?

If you decide you want to go that route, I can certainly make a trip to that store. It will likely result in me purchasing something for myself as well (I wish I had more money for this to be a good idea), but I'd be willing to help you out. For some reason, microcenter regularly has the i7 processors at stupid cheap prices (the ones they stock, anyway). It's only about an hour away and pretty close to my parents house. My last build was basically all parts I bought there.

Also, what PMQ is talking about is definitely against the EULA and would constitute software piracy. Careful PMQ, you're entering an area that will likely be edited by a mod/admin. A lot of people probably pirate stuff, but this is not the venue to be discussing it.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0331303

Jesus H Christ. That changes things a lot, actually. s***. Back to the drawing board I guess.

Also, I think my BIGGEST problem is what to choose as far as MoBo's go. I have no idea who makes good stuff, any particular brand you recommend for i7 930?

Is Gigabyte any good?
http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0321701

Yeah, happy I have that store close by. I bought my i7 860 at launch basically for I think $220 when it was still over $300 on newegg. Hard to pass that up.

As far as motherboards go, I always use Asus. I've had good luck with them. I think between Asus and Gigabyte you should be able to find something decent. I'm just a huge fan of the bios on Asus boards. Again, that's totally personal preference and maybe MoD or PMQ can offer some other insight.

I posted before I noticed your edit. Keep in mind that the i7 930 is socket 1366 but the i7 860 is socket 1156. Different board layouts.

I guess I should also mention that a X58 (socket 1366) mobo will cost more than a P55 (1156) board. The X58 is more of a high-end line. Just another kink to throw into your planning...

s*** I didn't even think of that. Damn, those x58's are expensive. P55 it is.

Yeah, sorry I didn't mention it. I don't want to explain the differences (lazy), but this article does a decent job:

http://www.brighthub.com/computing/hard ... 51781.aspx

The big hit is in running two video cards in SLI or Crossfire (I think that's ATIs name for it).

AppleBonker wrote: Also, what PMQ is talking about is definitely against the EULA and would constitute software piracy. Careful PMQ, you're entering an area that will likely be edited by a mod/admin. A lot of people probably pirate stuff, but this is not the venue to be discussing it.

Understood.

What I will recommend to you then is to search google using "*insert your motherboard* hacked bios" and look for a site called my-digital-life. They'll be able to help you with everything.

ADDirishboy wrote:Also, I think my BIGGEST problem is what to choose as far as MoBo's go. I have no idea who makes good stuff, any particular brand you recommend for i7 930?

When it comes to 1366 chips the motherboards are all within 5% of each performance wise. This is due to alot of things being built in to the processor itself.

What I would look at instead of manufacturer is physical layout. If you put in a double size video card will an important slot be blocked, like a 4x PCIe slot?

6 memory slots?

Almost all the boards have an 8pin CPU power connector, but just make sure. This ensures that there is always plenty of power to the CPU.

Honestly, if you're not going to be doing overclocking pretty much any board will work. Just make sure it has, IMO, atleast two PCIe x1 slots and preferably an x4.

Note: Any PCIe x16 slot can fit a smaller card. Meaning and x1 can plug in to a x4, x8, or x16. Some of the boards you'll see will have ~4 PCIe x16 slots. These work too, but are usually expensive.

What is your intended purpose with this system? You only mentioned older games. ANything else?

Did someone say they need a copy of Win 7? I have an unused copy of Home Premium I bought and meant to return it to Newegg, but I opened it on accident thinking it was my "cheap" one and not the "newegg" one. I bought it, then found a much cheaper copy and couldn't cancel my order at newegg.

If you want a legit copy, let me know. If you want to save money on the OS, as PMQ mentioned, there are ways of getting W7 for free.

PoorManQ45 wrote:
What is your intended purpose with this system? You only mentioned older games. ANything else?

Mainly gaming. Also use for downloading and watching movies and TV shows (Dexter FTMFW).

It will see some pretty decent use as a gaming computer, so that's my main concern.

ADDirishboy wrote:Mainly gaming. Also use for downloading and watching movies and TV shows (Dexter FTMFW).

It will see some pretty decent use as a gaming computer, so that's my main concern.

I didn't ask, I only assumed. But you're not planning on running multiple video cards, correct? I figured this wasn't an open-budget build so you were restricting yourself to just one card.

PMQ, since I am actually interested. If given the choice between a 1055 and the i7 860 (say they're being given to you so cost isn't a factor), which would you choose (assuming the same constraints exist from this build - single video card, etc)?

ADDirishboy wrote:Mainly gaming. Also use for downloading and watching movies and TV shows (Dexter FTMFW).

It will see some pretty decent use as a gaming computer, so that's my main concern.

Maybe look at the 5700 series or the 5800 series if you have the cash. Getting close to 2yrs ago I bought a 4870 to use primarily for watching movies. I found it was WAAY overkill. It does awesome on all the games I play (Civ4, C&C 3) and I'm able to max out the graphics on them and run at 1920x1080 on my 54". I'm glad I got that vid card instead of something less powerful.

AppleBonker wrote: PMQ, since I am actually interested. If given the choice between a 1055 and the i7 860 (say they're being given to you so cost isn't a factor), which would you choose (assuming the same constraints exist from this build - single video card, etc)?

From a pure processing standpoint the 860 wins.

But if you're going to do high end gaming with multiple cards in sli/crossfire the 1055t on an AM3 platform would win. The reason for this is that with the p55 chips intel moved the controller for the first x16 slot on to the processor. This is awesome if you're only using one card, but as soon as you plug in another card you move everything back on to the chipset. The problem lies in the fact that the p55 isn't designed to handle two cards at full speed. The speed drops to x8/x8. Not a huge problem if you're using mid-level cards, but extreme cards have been known to max these out. What the p55 does do right is it has 8 pcie lanes for the rest of the slots. This is usually in the form of 1 x4 and 4 x1s, a single x8, or 2 x4 slots. Lots of options.

What's weird though is that if you plug the 1055t in to an 890gx board with two x16 slots running at x8/x8 it performs better then the p55. Something to do with the first x16 slot actually being on the processor with the p55.

Either way you will be happy. My 1055t with a single gtx295 hums along at 1920x1200 with AA at x16 and AS at x16 in all the games I play. The latest being L4D2.

Looneybomber wrote:

ADDirishboy wrote:Mainly gaming. Also use for downloading and watching movies and TV shows (Dexter FTMFW).

It will see some pretty decent use as a gaming computer, so that's my main concern.

Maybe look at the 5700 series or the 5800 series if you have the cash. Getting close to 2yrs ago I bought a 4870 to use primarily for watching movies. I found it was WAAY overkill. It does awesome on all the games I play (Civ4, C&C 3) and I'm able to max out the graphics on them and run at 1920x1080 on my 54". I'm glad I got that vid card instead of something less powerful.

You can pick up the 4870 on sale for like $80 these days. If you want a current generation the ATI 5770 can be had on a good sale for ~$120.