Ticks! The HLA noise that won't go away.

[OwnerCS]

Well I’ve got ticks! While not the kind of tick that Brad Paisley likes to sing about, I've had the VH45DE HLA type since last November when I finished the chain guide job. If I had a video camera, I would make a YouTube video.

While this is not my engine, the valve train noise in the YouTube is so similar to noise that mine currently making.

So before you view the video, I know the first question will be about oil pressure. I just finished measuring it. I initially thought the noise might be due to low oil pressure.

Oil – Mobil1 – 0w40.

Warm engine oil pressure

FSM Oil Pressure Test

Idle – 675 RPM - 20 PSI
Run - 3,000 RPM - 75 PSI

Here's the video with the similar HLA noise.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ripuVvms ... re=related[/youtube]

Background Information

1) Noise developed after installing new timing chain guides last fall.
2) Car did not run for 3 months while changing guides and other parts.
3) Engine was turned over by hand several times to locate TDC and to test the new guides. Most likely the HLAs filled with air and dried out during the guide job.
4) Oil pump chain and gear were replaced along with guides.
5) FSM guidelines for oil pump chain to guide clearance followed.
6) Previous owner changed oil every 2,500 miles (old school I know)
7) Noise seems to be around the driver side bank.
8) Front main seal that was replaced last fall has failed. It leaks a significant amount of oil now.

Pictures of the engine are below.

While I’m puzzled about the HLA noise, I will be going into the engine again to replace the front main seal.













Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated

[maxnix]

there is a thread about using high detergent oils normally associated with diesel engines for short duration. Also, BG Crankcase Quick Clean immediately before draining the oil is another strategy. i like the envirolution crankcase flush because while it will not clear the lifters of any impurities, it will get a lot of sludge out of the pan and other passages.

Your engine does have a great deal of varnish. Not the worst, but not the best either.

[Infinitiguy19]

I think the HLA's are filled with air from sitting all that time. Did you try to prime them by taking out the fuel pump fuse and crank it over for a couple of seconds to see if it would help?

Air is compressible so in the near future or when ever you feel like taking off the valve covers again see if any rocker arms move even a little.

[OwnerCS]

Yes -- I did turn it over with the starter (fuel pump fuse out) with no plugs during that job. I've been driving it.. It runs beautifully -- it's just noisy.

It is disappointing, after so many hours of work, to end up with HLA ticks.

I noticed the oil light didn't come on when it was unplugged to get the oil pressure reading. Does that sound right?

[goody90q45]

Can't the valve cover be remooved and the HLA primed with oil to quiet it down?

[maxnix]

Can't the valve cover be remooved and the HLA primed with oil to quiet it down?

Per the FSM, the HLA need to be removed to be primed in a hot oil bath.

[OwnerCS]

Do we have any members that have removed HLAs to perform the priming procedure? According to the FSM the cams must be removed. In the past year, I don’t recall seeing anyone here go through the procedure.

The FSM states "Air cannot be bled from this type of lash adjuster by running the engine."

Reference EM-16

[maxnix]

Which oil do you use? HLA never R&R that I can recall.

[Q451990]

Which oil do you use? HLA never R&R that I can recall.

He's using M1 0W-40.

[maxnix]

Ah, yes. Maybe some high deteregent oil is now appropriate with short changes.

[OwnerCS]

Like Shell Rotella T 15w40 for diesel trucks?

This weekend marked the end of the Phase I project to care for the known issues from a dealer assessment that had been provided by the previous owner,

The front main seal has really got me puzzled. The seal was gone after the first tank of gas.

I may need to outsource something this summer as I've got two other needy cars and two houses that need to be painted.. Argh..

So Q project Phase i (the first year) is complete.
Projects needing attention.

1) 95 Maxima Knock Sensors (CEL code on) and Plenum hoses.

2) 95 Maxima rear shocks / bushings / boots.

3) 2006 V6 Ridgeline - Timing Belts, Water Pump, Belts, 100,000 mile service.

4) 91 Q45 - Main Seal leaking -- possible HLAs need to be pulled and primed.

5) Two houses need to be painted.

Yea you know I always fall for the high maintenance types.. LOL

[maxnix]

Yeah, a couple of 2400 mile changes and see what happens.

When I let my VH45DE sit for 6 months or more, the oil drained away and they would rattle on start up until I remembered to pull the FI fuse first and turn for 20 seconds. Yours are primed, but maybe clogged. The HLS orifices are literally pin holes.

[OwnerCS]

You guys will get a chuckle out of this one..

Today I had thoughts about outsourcing this job as I've got way too many projects stacking up here at home. This afternoon, I stopped by a shop that came highly recommended to visit with the owner about replacing the front main seal and priming the HLAs. He referenced his estimate software and quoted $1,500 to $1,800 for the job. He said he would need to pull the engine to pull the HLAs. Since he would already have the engine out to remove the HLAs, he could give me a break and replace the front main seal for 3 hours labor.

PULL THE ENGINE!

[Q451990]

Outsource the house painting... the Q needs you

Heath

[qship96]

Say what? I think I was charged either 1 or 2 hours labor to do the front main seal, while the engine was still in the car- you can search my posts to find the exact number,but it is a relatively easy job, as I watched it being done.

[OwnerCS]

Now that I can use search again, I found the following thread on this subject.

post5184883.html?hilit=HLA%20air#p5184883

[maxnix]

Yeah, but your diagnosis that the HLA need priming is flawed, I beleieve.

Rather, it is a sludging problem that has obstructed some of the holes in the HLA.

The thread you need to read is about oil types, and I think it is probably in General Chat thanks to the dissolution of Infiniti General.

[OwnerCS]

So far I've changed the oil 4 times since November. Three of the times involved different products that purported to clean the engine or remedy noisy HLAs. I"m glad I had a stash of oil filters.

1) Lubegard Engine Flush in some Mobil1 with about 600 miles. Whatever it does it turned amber colored oil flat black after about 15 minutes of running.

2) Two bottles of MMO with another oil change.

3) Rislone in another change.

4) I gave up on additives and went back to plain M1 0w40.

Before it sat for months during the chain guide replacement, the engine was as quiet like the VQ30DE. The classic HLA noise that I've seen around on YouTube appeared after it had been sitting an extended amount of time.

[maxnix]

Like I said, one of mine sat for 6-8 months at a time for several years. Loud on start up when I didn't pull the FP fuse first. Quiet after 20 seconds of idling.

It isn't the HLA cavitating. But you might have a failed one. Good luck determining which one(s) if that is true. Even more good luck if you have to rebuild them.

[OwnerCS]

LOL - I know the financial reality of eliminating a bad one -- to the tune of $45.02 per pop.. It does seem to be on the driver side near cyls 2 and 4.

When I was a youngster, I remember running one of these engines with the rocker arm cover off while searching for the noisy one..

Oh but the transmission in the picture was such an option..

[Infinitiguy19]

Might be easier to to find a clean engine, remove the heads, Clean and prime the HLA's, then install the heads on your Q?

That way you have a spare engine and a running car during the process.

[OwnerCS]

Might be easier to to find a clean engine, remove the heads, Clean and prime the HLA's, then install the heads on your Q?

That way you have a spare engine and a running car during the process.

Paul -

Now that's an idea, I might know where I can find a perfectly good (was running) 90 model engine without a transmission.

Thanks
Craig

[Infinitiguy19]

I didn't actually think you would be too thrilled about the idea but removing the heads on a VH45DE (Q45 Engine) while still in the engine bay can be done.

If you want send me some HLA's and I will help clean them for you...

[OwnerCS]

I didn't actually think you would be too thrilled about the idea but removing the heads on a VH45DE (Q45 Engine) while still in the engine bay can be done.

If you want send me some HLA's and I will help clean them for you...

Cool! You know I appreciate it.

[Infinitiguy19]

Have you tried the Lubro Moly engine cleaner? Napa should carry it.

[OwnerCS]

Hydro-Stößel-Additiv ?

[Infinitiguy19]

That seems more like a BG MOA. I am talking about a engine flush. One guy on here with HLA problems on a FGY33 used it and solved it.

[OwnerCS]

I just ordered it.. The local NAPA sells the moror oil.. It sells for more than Royal Purple..

[Q451990]

The more I think about this, you mentioned it's on the driver's side near 1 and 3... are you sure it's not coming from the timing chain tensioner? I always like to look back to the last thing I touched when something new crops up after I work on the car. If you're sure it's HLA noise, I think I'd check with http://www.envirolution.com/nvr_engine.htm as Brian mentioned and see if they have any shops in your area. Even if their service won't clean the HLA ports, getting the rest of the engine sparkly clean before trying more cleaners couldn't hurt.

Heath

[OwnerCS]

Here's my plan below.. The cleaner won't go to waste as other cars can use it..

Some activities I need to complete regardless..

1) Remove cracked plastic cooling fan to replace with new part.

2) Remove radiator for 94 model upgrade

3) Remove external ATF filter for 94 model replacement.

3) Install ATF aux cooler with 94 model radiator.

4) Remove driver side valve cover, remove yellowing VHT clear and replace with Duplicolor high temp clear that does not turn yellow. One VC was painted with VHT and the other with Duplicolor high temp. So far the Duplicolor clear parts are not turning yellow.

5) Remove front timing chain cover as I need to replace the seal anyway. Check timing chain guides and RTV for possible causes.

I've been trying to map out a scenario in my mind for a chain tensioner contributing (or being the root cause) of the noise.

I have a concern about an oil channel in the timing chain cover, the one that runs alongside the channel for RTV, being obstructed. If some RTV from the outer edge oozed over into the oil channel on installation, it could obstruct the flow. If that oil channel provides lubricant to the upper chain tensioner, could the upper tensioner be noisy from oil starvation?