Throwing good money after bad, at what point do you stop doing repairs?

[Victor]

I read quite a few of these posts where someone spent a lot of money fixing a problem only to have something else pop up and eventually they spent more on repairs then the car was worth. I was wondering at what point you would draw the line at doing essential repairs for problems that make the car undriveable, and at what point you stop doing nonessential repairs for problems that are annoying or you can live with but don't stop the car from driving?There is also one extreme element of people who seem to want to spend as much as the can on their car even if what they do is really unnecessary or doesn't improve anything.For instance if the market value of the car was $3000 and suddenly something happened that required a $1200 repair would you do it or just sell the car as is as a parts car or part it out or what?

[Rex]

You have to think about the value of the car to you and what your long term plan/commitment is. It's the known versus the unknown. If you feel fairly certain that it's not going to be $1200 every couple months, or even more than every 4 or 5 months. If you think about the average $200+ car payment, for a car that in no way compares to the class of a Luxury Sedan.

It's just do you want to make car payments or pay for repairs.

[Q45tech]

Important to face facts early, hopefully before you make a mistake and actually buy an expense to maintain car.

Decide what will be the last straw for some it's as simple as a $3,000 transmission for others it takes a $5,000 engine along with the other $3,000 per year in misc multiple repairs to end the love affair.

Since J30 is a V6 things will be cheaper than a V8 but only 20% in lux class so expect $2400 per year in average expenses

I4 FWD THINGS like a Honda Civic can get by for $1200 - $1500 per year.

[Jesda]

You're going to spend more than $1200 over the next few years. You have to decide whether an old luxury sedan is more economical than an old Honda Accord (it is absolutely not).

And after concluding that its less economical to keep than most other used cars, is it worth the cost for the luxury/performance that you enjoy?

You have to think about your priorities in life.

Options:1. Car payments. (even then, you will have to pay for some repairs)2. Repairs on your existing vehicle.3. Repairs on a more reliable car with cheaper parts, at the expense of style, performance, and luxury.4. The bus.

Its really not an easy decision. Whip out Excel, crunch some numbers, test drive some cars, then think about whether you're happy with what you've got.

[maxnix]

Don't confuse market value with the cost to run, maintain, or repair a $48K (in 2000 $) with a Blue Book value. You recieve no further discounts for parts or labor beyond the discounted price you payed for deferred maintenance due on your car.

You can buy new and have a higher nominal "book" value, but suffer tens of thousands more in the first years of depreciation. Your choice.

Most people spend more than they should on maintenence and repair when they try to go low bidder for labor and employ used parts of unknown origin for wear items. Preventative maintenance costs up front, but less than major systems replacement on the long run.

The usual killer of a car is body damage corrosion, which is very expensive to repair correctly so safety is not a concern.
Modified by maxnix at 12:33 PM 4/18/2008

[SUB ZERO CAR FANATIC]

Very good evaluation and very correct!

[bullittandy]

When to stop?

Before the most recent repair.

[qsiguy]

The way I figure it is my car has been paid off for years, I could never afford a comparable new car in it's class, so the normal repairs (minimized by proper preventative maintenance) are worth it. Add to that the extras I've done to my car and I can't afford to sell it.

Unless someone offered $10K+ for my car I wouldn't even consider selling, I'd have to spend at least $20-30K to find something as cool...

[Raxephon]

For instance if the market value of the car was $3000 and suddenly something happened that required a $1200 repair would you do it or just sell the car as is as a parts car or part it out or what?

Personally, for me, it doesn't matter whether the car is worth ten dollars or ten million, the G50 just suits me too damn well.

I'll keep repairing it until there's nothing left to repair.

[Victor]

I have spent much less than most of you from what I read on the posts. I bought my car used on July 1, 2004 for $3300 and have spent only about $130 for repairs and oil changes since then. The only repairs I did myself, which was replacing a radiator hose that cost $13 and a headlight bulb that cost $20, and a gallon of antifreeze. The rest was just oil changes, most of which I did myself using oil I got really cheap with a rebate or on sale or if I had it done it was when they had some $19.95 special. I bought the car with 177,286 miles on it, and it now has 191, 500 miles on it. Some of you say spending $2000 to $3000 a year is normal. I am spending about $33 a year on repair and maintenance.I do have some new issues. A leaking bellows on the power steering rack, replacement part is $13.28 from Rock Auto. I am going to replace the three engine rubber belts (alternator, power steering pump, and air conditioner belts), total cost for top of the line gatorbacks, $50 at auto zone. So my costs this year will go up an extra $63. All accessories on the car works including power windows, power sunroof, radio and cassette player, and air conditione, except for some flaky power door locks.. I have never had a problem with the engine or transmission. The tires that came with the car still have enough tread on them to last another few thousand miles. I never even had a flat tire, and the paint on the car looks almost new even though I park outside and have never waxed and rarely wash the car.The secret to buying a used luxury car is to buy it from a rich person who properly maintained it and make sure every single thing works when you buy it, as repairs on luxury cars are very expensive. Also the rich guy will probably sell it cheaper because he doesn't care about getting the last couple of hundred bucks out of it. Never buy a car from a poor person who couldn't afford to maintain it.

[qship96]

14,000 miles in 4 years is not typical, so your lack of repairs really doesnt mean much over that time period.You are however, driving it very slowly into the ground if you have not opened your tight wallet to perform annual fluid and filter services {transmission,rear axle, coolant,p/s, brake fluid,etc} or spending a few bucks on fuel filters, injector cleaner, etc. Dont be surprised when the big one hits.....its coming

[maxnix]

I am spending about $33 a year on repair and maintenance.I do have some new issues.

Never buy a car from a poor person who couldn't afford to maintain it.

Well, I think you fail to understand the concept of preventative maintenance, which is repair it before it breaks. More expensive than don't fix it until it's broke, until a major system fails.

You have to understand that part of that $3K per annum is for transmission, suspension parts (I would have to wonder about your tension rod bushings), shocks, brakes, AC, coilpacks, belts and pulley bearings,things that are not replaced annually but the wise budget so the money is there when required?

Ever mechanically exchanged your ATF? Ever installed an auxiliary ATF cooler? If not, you have a new transmission coming soon.

Same for brakes if fluid not flushed every two years, ABS controller is an $1,200 item.

[MinisterofDOOM]

The main thing to consider here is that there is a lot more to a car's "value" than just the price you can sell it for.

Especially for enthusiasts like us (or even average non-enthusiast gearheads) who keep our cars running well and keep on top of their condition (and by that I mean we know how they're doing).

For example, Over the past few years, I have spent more than my Maxima is worth keeping it in good condition (and by "good condition" I don't mean "barely running," I mean genuinely good condition). I don't regret it a bit. Consider the following:

1:I KNOW where this car sits. I know what works, what doesn't (and why), what's been done, what might need to be done. I know it's history and can predict it's future. I know what I'm in for. That kind of security with a car is VERY hard to come by. That alone is worth keeping my car going rather than trading it for something "cheaper."

2:The same factor (rock-bottomed resale value) that means major repairs often close in on our cars' values also means that we'll likely have a hard time replacing them with anything decent with what we can sell them for.If I were to sell my Maxima for a "good" price (for me, the seller) I couldn't come close to replacing it. I MIGHT be able to get $2500 out of it if I tried. There's NOTHING out there I could buy for $2500 that would be in as good condition as my car. And there is absolutely no chance on earth of me finding anything in as good condition as well as the aforementioned sense of knowledge and security about what is in store.

I've spent probably...$6000 on the car in the last 2-3 years (not including basic upkeep/maintenance, this is just major repairs). Not a lot at all, especially compared with what you Q guys sometimes end up spending, but still very nearly triple the value of the car. Even so, over 2-3 years I'd say that's a very reasonable cost for a well-running, dependable car that I enjoy driving and looking at.

And then of course there's the personal/sentimental value of a car, which can easily transcend it's monetary value.

Then of course there's the vicious cycle. Once you've dumped a certain amount of money into the car, you don't feel like "throwing away" that investment and simply moving on. Repair costs into old cars like ours do not stack onto the value of the car. They simply keep it afloat or, in a few cases, raise it a bit. But $6000 in repairs + $2500 value doesn't equal a potential sale price of $8500 for my car. So selling it would be throwing away all that money. At some point you just have to decide where you want to take your loss: keep providing for your current investment, or take a risk with a new one. But at some point the new investment will become just as demanding as the old one, so the way I see it, you might as well make the old one last as long as you can.Also, repair costs plateau and then even go away after a while. Once you refurb the car, you're good for a while. Buy a new car and you're just starting over again.

[lino]

1. You stop doing repairs when you realize your Q is not working the way it is intended too and you cannot afford to fix it properly, and it is not enjoyable any longer or safe due to its condition.

2. You stop doing repairs when you realize you can lease a brand new Toyota Camry for $199/month and have so much free time that was used up in constantly repairing and servicing the Q, and regain part of your sanity.

3. You stop doing repairs when you realize you can drive a better car after realizing that the money you spend annually on Q is equivalent to the payment on a new or used comparable car.

I will just mention one example of a used car that my friend has available for lease. It was the first one I spotted that looked interesting. Bear in mind that everything in Canada is very expensive compared to the US so for us it is a bargain. (Toyota Camry in Canada is $400/month compared to US $199/month)

2002 MERCEDES CL55 AMGMonthly: $679.00 Down Payment: $0Term: 24 MonthsWarranty: Yes

[jimbyjimb]

Agreed. Finding something you enjoy makes it worth it. I still have yet to discover if that is my Q, but so far so good! The larger you are, the less choices you have. Being 6'3" and over 200 lbs I find it difficult to find cars that "suit" me unless they're from the 70's or earlier or large luxury automobile or trucks. I don't need to drive a gas-guzzling stiff-riding truck everyday, so here I am! If the car is everything I hope it is, then it WILL be worth every penny.

[oldmako]

I picked up my very cheap Q last fall. Since then I have almost doubled my investment through repair and preventative maintenance. But look below at all the nonsense that I've done and consider that my car is in fantastic condition. The only thing it really needed was one lousy strut mount and a set of coil springs. I elected to do all the rest to bring the car up to a point that I was comfortable with bombing down the interstate at 2 AM. Plus, I can sleep (somewhat) easy knowing that the tires, brakes, suspension, belts and plugs are all new and ought to give me years of service without any additional (direct) expenditures.

My total investment is less than $8000 and that includes every dime I drop for miscellaneous parts, cleaning and shop products which I will use on my truck as well. It also includes a few additions to my tool box.

While I don't want to, I would not hesitate to replace the trans or other super expensive component. The car is simply still worth the expense TO ME. You can get a pretty nice used Acura for 10 grand....and then you still may have to buy new tires, brakes, shocks etc. So there's the rub.

At least by repairing a Q you are rehabilitating a car which is worth tossing cash into. The engines appear virtually bulletproof with minimal care. The coachwork is first rate and even an old high mileage car runs down the road quickly and quietly. The value is not in what the car is worth in Kelley, but what it's worth to you when you fire it up and ease down the pike.

I've never had a car which gets so many comments either, and that's worth something to me. It justifies my skinned knuckles.

[maxnix]

Springs? Really? If so, email me and I may help you.

I have an Acura Legend like Doom's Maxima, probably dropped it's book value into repairs last year, but it will go another $100K miles easily. And the insurance is certainly less as it is based on book value.

[Jesda]

Volvo has a $379 lease deal on the S80. I remember when Infiniti was doing $399 for the 03 M45. THAT was a nice offer.

[oldmako]

Brian,

Yep, both fronts were BUSTED about 3 inches from the top. Hard to fathom how they broke, and how it is that the rest of the front end wasn't also trashed. But I am unable to find any further damage. I installed new struts and mounts when the springs went in. I picked up a set from Andy's UsedQparts and put them on. All's well in front end land.

[Haitian_King]

It's going to take something wild to part me from my Q. I've put more money into it than I have into my last car.

With people stretching their Q's past 2-300k miles, at 92k and change, my Q is still a baby. A sexy, bad ***, rocketing 16 year old baby. It makes me feel good.

I just got back a couple hours ago from taking a friend of mine to her nail appointment. It was her first time in my Q and she couldn't get over how nice it was. I was a little embarrassed by the dusty exterior and equally dusty dashboard. She barely noticed.

[pouncer11]

I work at a vet tech, im in high school and going to college for computer networking. Making minimum wage and busting my *** to pay for this car's repair is rough. Esp when my knowledge is computer/electronics based and i know little about cars, but before this car (1990 Q) i was driving a 1990 Dodge ram van and a 1987 chevette that belong to my parents. The chevette was good gas mileage to be honest but its rusted, ugly, falling apart, and there is nothing worse than people passing you and laughing. It doesnt matter what i paid for this car or what its worth, i love it. Its fast, its sexy, and its nicer than anything anyone around here has. I can blow just about any car out of the water too. Its an old car but it has almost no rust and what rust it does have i can fix. Besides customizing a honda or a scion is lame, everyone else does that, why not have a V8, sexy, quiet, luxury car tailored to your liking, Unique and way better than a generic Civic, untill the body falls off, i total it, or someone sets fire to it, the Q is mine to pour endless amounts of cash into. And to be honest i think im sticking to infiniti for life.

[Victor]

I read an article in todays newspaper that because of the economy and high gas prices many people have stopped doing nonessential repairs and preventive maintenance on their cars. The article says cars being traded in now are in bad shape because of lack of maintenance compared to last few years. It also said many shops have empty bays as people aren't bringing their cars in.I think maybe because of high gas prices that will be going higher people now have lost their love affair with their car and now look at it as a money pit that keeps sucking up their dollars. Probably in the future very few people will take trips just for pleasure. Says tire sales are down as people let the tread get lower than they used to, and sales of retread tires are up as they don't want to spend the money on new tires. People are now keeping their cars longer before trading them in, now an average of 5>5 years compared to 5 years last year.I think if you are in the market for a V6 or V8 powered luxury car you will see some real bargains in the coming year. The only new car sales that are up are hybrids and good gas mileage econocars. But if you buy a used luxury car make sure every single thing works on it unless the seller discounts it enough to make up for repairs or you can live with not fixing the problem. If you buy a car with problems you may spend as much by the time you finish fixing them as what you would have spent if you bought a car in excellent shape with low miles.

[Q451990]

Victor, interesting article you mentioned. I think there's a lot of sticker shock in general in the economy as inflation is a new concept for those of us my age (34) and lower. I think the producers and retailers ate a lot of the pain when fuel prices went from $2 to $3 but the elasticity is gone and they are passing all of that pain on to the consumer now...

It's freaking me out at restaurants that I frequent when I get the check without actually reading the shiny new menus with their higher prices. It's going to take people a while to get acclimated to the new prices for a lot of things... I keep trying to remember that my $4 lunch is now $6 unless I'm at the dollar menu... and our new dining out base is about $11-12/head instead of $8-9 I'm used to before alcohol. Luckily I tend to live below my means, so I'm financially able to do what I've always done - but I have the same "damn - what happened here!" moments just the same.

From a car standpoint, it's still marginal cost between the Q's mileage vs. a newer more economical car - and the savings in fuel still don't even come close. It's a pay me now or pay me later deal... now in fuel and maintenence, or later in mega depreciation on a new car.

Time to start drilling and streamlining the refineary building regulations or it only gets worse. Sadly the political climate doesn't look good for any relief any time soon...

Heath

[AlabamaDan]

Stop doing repairs? With NICO members? NEVER!