(Thread split) - Stem cell research debate moved here.

[telcoman]

Perhaps restoring government funding for stem cell research might lead to a cure for a whole host of diseases including cancer?

Telcoman

[AZhitman]

Perhaps restoring government funding for stem cell research might lead to a cure for a whole host of diseases including cancer?

Telcoman

Perhaps not changing the subject to deflect attention from a major faux pas is a better idea.

Don't get me started on stem cell research. If you'd done your homework, you'd know there's a lot more to the issue than that. The left wants "ground-up dead babies", regardless of what science says. The FACT is that stem cells have more than one source.

[audtatious]

The fact is that there has been progress with adult stem cells and no progress at all trying as much as they can with babies cells. Maybe they will find some miracle and we can start paying those who have abortions to do it simply for research purposes.

[ishkabibble]

The FACT is that embryonic stem cells are not differentiated.

The babies are dead anyway. Might was well make use of the cells. But, no, the oh-so-moral right would rather see people suffer.

[audtatious]

Show me where embryonic stem cell research is making progress. Last I saw they were only making progress with adult stem cells, not that they were not trying.

[ishkabibble]

The fact is that there has been progress with adult stem cells and no progress at all trying as much as they can with babies cells.

The right de-funded embryonic stem cell research. How can we expect it to make a lot of progress? Nice "fact".

Maybe they will find some miracle and we can start paying those who have abortions to do it simply for research purposes.

Hopefully. Maybe we can arrange group discounts.

Do any of you anti-stem cellers have any relatives with MS or ALS?

[audtatious]

Uhm......There is NO ban on embryonic stem cell research. Plenty of groups, companies and universities world wide have looked into them.

You also are making assumptions again.

[ishkabibble]

Where did I say there was a ban? I said de-funded.

Uhm.... you are comparing a Federally funded program with one that is very constrained, and criticizing the unfunded one for lack of progress?

What assumptions am I making?

[audtatious]

The general concensus, not necessarily yours, is that Bush stopped embryonic stemcell research. Incorrect of course. As far as funding goes if it showed any potential he may (or may not) have changed his mind. It hasn't shown any positive results.

Your assuming I'm against embryonic stem cell research based upon your argumentative stance. If the research showed some success showing that more research was needed I would be for more gov money going into the research. It hasn't so I'm not. I'm also not against abortion, not that I like it.

[AZhitman]

Interestingly, cord blood stem cells show more promise than embryonic stem cells, and are far more plentiful. Where's the Dem funding of that?

Hmmmm?

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7864

http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2005/07/27/64848

Educate yourself.

adult stem cells and cord blood cells are already being used to safely and effectively treat more than 60 conditions (see http://www.stemcellresearch.org). Yet, most media seem to downplay these successes while elevating embryonic stem cell cure "potential," when embryonic stem cells have yet to provide even one safe and effective human treatment.

embryonic stem cells have serious problems, such as tumor formation, tissue rejection and genetic instability that prevent human use. For more than 20 years, scientists worldwide, using animal embryonic stem cells, have failed to solve these same roadblocks faced by human embryonic stem cell researchers.

Oh yeah - I'd fund that. NOT.

Maybe it's not being FUNDED because it's a WASTE OF MONEY?

You guys accuse the right of latching onto incomplete info and running with it - Well, here's a perfect example of the left doing the same thing.

[ishkabibble]

The general concensus, not necessarily yours, is that Bush stopped embryonic stemcell research. Incorrect of course.

Of course.

As far as funding goes if it showed any potential he may (or may not) have changed his mind. It hasn't shown any positive results.

Nope. This was nothing more than him pandering to the oh-so-moral fundamentalist "base". Since they are pretty much the only supporters he has left, he's not changing.

Your assuming I'm against embryonic stem cell research based upon your argumentative stance. If the research showed some success showing that more research was needed I would be for more gov money going into the research. It hasn't so I'm not. I'm also not against abortion, not that I like it.

Demonstrate the loads of progress made on adult stem cells and the zero progress made on embryonic stem cells. Limit your sources from before the "de-funding" was enacted. Then, you might have a point. Otherwise, you are setting up a catch-22 (no funding without results, no results without funding)

[audtatious]

Which is my point. Seems a number of scientists have determined that embryonic stem cells have not been "imprented" to the point that they are stable enough to use for anything (from memory, I'm not going to look it up). Regardless, even if science can't do anything with them the left want's to do it anyway as a way to poke a stick into the eye of those who are against if for religious reasons. Pretty sad.

[ishkabibble]

Interestingly, cord blood stem cells show more promise than embryonic stem cells, and are far more plentiful. Where's the Dem funding of that?

Hmmmm?

Right in with the rest of the research funding?

Do you know of any Dem actions against it?

[audtatious]

Demonstrate the loads of progress made on adult stem cells and the zero progress made on embryonic stem cells. Limit your sources from before the "de-funding" was enacted. Then, you might have a point. Otherwise, you are setting up a catch-22 (no funding without results, no results without funding)

No, you show me proof. As I stated before, lack of Gov funding is NOT stopping the research. Reseach HAS been done. Now, you go and find where there have been positive results concerning embyonic stem cells.

[audtatious]

Do you know of any Dem actions against it?

Would you provide me with proof that there has been as much Dem action for adult stem cell research, which has shown to have positive results, as compared to their actions for embryonic stem cell research, which hasn't?

[AZhitman]

Interestingly, cord blood stem cells show more promise than embryonic stem cells, and are far more plentiful. Where's the Dem funding of that?

Hmmmm?

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7864

http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2005/07/27/64848

Educate yourself.

adult stem cells and cord blood cells are already being used to safely and effectively treat more than 60 conditions (see http://www.stemcellresearch.org). Yet, most media seem to downplay these successes while elevating embryonic stem cell cure "potential," when embryonic stem cells have yet to provide even one safe and effective human treatment.

embryonic stem cells have serious problems, such as tumor formation, tissue rejection and genetic instability that prevent human use. For more than 20 years, scientists worldwide, using animal embryonic stem cells, have failed to solve these same roadblocks faced by human embryonic stem cell researchers.

Oh yeah - I'd fund that. NOT.

Maybe it's not being FUNDED because it's a WASTE OF MONEY?

You guys accuse the right of latching onto incomplete info and running with it - Well, here's a perfect example of the left doing the same thing.

....just in case Ish missed the lesson for the day....

[ishkabibble]

Which is my point. Seems a number of scientists have determined that embryonic stem cells have not been "imprented" to the point that they are stable enough to use for anything (from memory, I'm not going to look it up).

Yep, basic genetics. Embryonic stem cells have not gone through methylation. God forbid we try out the most likely solution to a problem first. (Pun intended)

Regardless, even if science can't do anything with them the left want's to do it anyway as a way to poke a stick into the eye of those who are against if for religious reasons. Pretty sad.

Outright lie.

The Repubs would rather flush some waste cells down the toilet than help sick, suffering people. Pretty sad. Really makes me admire them for their "principles".

[ishkabibble]

No, you show me proof. As I stated before, lack of Gov funding is NOT stopping the research. Reseach HAS been done. Now, you go and find where there have been positive results concerning embyonic stem cells.

No, you.

I hardly consider you a credible source, sorry.

[ishkabibble]

Would you provide me with proof that there has been as much Dem action for adult stem cell research, which has shown to have positive results, as compared to their actions for embryonic stem cell research, which hasn't?

I'm not the one who made the initial inquiry.

[Soravia]

There are people who are HEALTHY and suffering or people suffering with cureable disases.

Why are we debating about some obscure low rate disease and asking for government money?

[skylndrftr]

Uhm.... you are comparing a Federally funded program with one that is very constrained, and criticizing the unfunded one for lack of progress?

Thats a pretty common republican tactic , defund and disrupt programs. Interfere make them a mess and then use it as an example of how big government doesnt work. The problem isn't big government the problem is republican government.

As for new low, its looking like McCain cheated at the church forum last night...yet another new low. At some point that phrase will lose meaning because he'll be digging a hole well past china...

[AZhitman]

The Repubs would rather flush some waste cells down the toilet than help sick, suffering people. Pretty sad. Really makes me admire them for their "principles".

Your information is flawed... Careful which horse you back, hate to see you have to eat those words too.

adult stem cells and cord blood cells are already being used to safely and effectively treat more than 60 conditions (see http://www.stemcellresearch.org). Yet, most media seem to downplay these successes while elevating embryonic stem cell cure "potential," when embryonic stem cells have yet to provide even one safe and effective human treatment.

embryonic stem cells have serious problems, such as tumor formation, tissue rejection and genetic instability that prevent human use. For more than 20 years, scientists worldwide, using animal embryonic stem cells, have failed to solve these same roadblocks faced by human embryonic stem cell researchers.

[ishkabibble]

I'm actually for exploring all avenues in order to find treatments as soon as possible. Blood cord, adult stem cell, fetal, or otherwise.

[ishkabibble]

Why are we debating about some obscure low rate disease and asking for government money?

What obscure low rate disease are you talking about?

[ishkabibble]

I need to go to bed, but here is some good reading for anyone trying to mischaracterize the right's rationale for de-funding embryonic stem cell research back in 2001:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news....html

Interesting that they need to say it's "fundamental" 3 times...

[audtatious]

I'm not the one who made the initial inquiry.

Defer, deflect and ignore. If I'm wrong then you prove me wrong, else you can get right back onto your "you lie and are not credible" wagon and go back to the out house.

[skylndrftr]

What obscure low rate disease are you talking about?

Homeboy obviously doesnt watch West Wing

[audtatious]

The Repubs would rather flush some waste cells down the toilet than help sick, suffering people. Pretty sad. Really makes me admire them for their "principles".

Yeah, only republicans ignore suffering people. I need to tell my wife she must be a democrat then since she helps suffering people all the time. I have not seen her vomit before.

[AZhitman]

I need to go to bed, but here is some good reading for anyone trying to mischaracterize the right's rationale for de-funding embryonic stem cell research back in 2001:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news....html

Interesting that they need to say it's "fundamental" 3 times...

No, Ish.

No reason to read that when the basics have already been pointed out.

Where's the Dem funding (or push for funding) of adult or cord blood stem cell work?

Why should a program be funded when scientists are TELLING THEM they're getting nowhere after 20 years?

[AZhitman]

Here's another question:

Why do we need to wait on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research?

Hey Ish - Did we need federal funding to create a craft that allows civilian space travel? NOPE.

Capitalism dictates that if embryonic stem cells showed as much promise as they're alleged, private funding would be POURING in, in the hopes that Merck or Glaxo or Squibb would FIND the cure for cancer (i.e. jackpot).

That alone should make you think. All is not as it seems, and the "right" is not out to get you or put up barriers to research in the name of morality.