This is why I Don't go to the Dealership for Service... also why I Do go to them for service

[EdBwoy]

They're expensive, they generally try to upsell some services but at the end of the day, nobody should know an Infiniti like an Infiniti tech does, right?

This is not a typical bashing story.

I find myself off on a Monday and call the dealership to schedule an appointment to balance my tires (I recently noticed one front tire had no wheel weights and that the steering wheel was a little too wobbly for my liking) Also, it's been about 10k miles since I bought the car, and I consider balancing and alignment to be regular service.

So at the dealership, they enter the car info and inform me of the airbag recall, which I tell them I'll get to later.
They say that the evap system recall/ warranty is only for those who cannot fuel the car at all. I call BS but not voice it. The service advisor says the clicking before proper fill up is a pump issue. I kinda agree with this though, since I have seen it happen on different cars and usually I have to use the lowest speed setting and/or pull the nozzie oUT slightly. Plus, this has only happened to me twice in about 7 months, and I'm not a fan of people tinkering with things that are working acceptably fine.

I stroll into the waiting area and the snack basket is empty. I mean, I suppose it's pretty spoiled of me to expect some chewy bars, bananas and crackers at 10 AM on a Monday, but this is why I go to an Infiniti dealership rather than Nissan. (Snacks and the free car wash I guess). I mumble that I should have gone to the other Infiniti dealership in St. Louis. They had fancier setup last I visited about 3 years ago.
So I drink some cappuccino. Although I don't usually drink coffee, I want to somehow consume something fancy to justify the marked up price of service here.
Yes, I'll be the first to admit that despite being a 27 year old father, I am still fairly juvenile at heart.


Anyway, the service guy comes to me with this breakdown of recommended service:
I had already told him to ignore the maintenance reminder on the screen as I set it to 5k miles and I do my own synthetic oil changes... and I'll flush my own fluids.


Do you see the missing lug nut comment? I'm livid because the first place my mind goes is that someone just wants me to buy 10-Dollar lugnuts. I pull up a recent picture and show him that they were all there. I ask him to confirm, and to tell me if the missing ones are next to each other or in a skip - one pattern. I mean, there was no vibration or anything funny during my drive.

On the other hand, I am a fair man, and honestly haven't looked at the rear lugnuts that closely. I checked the front right yesterday after landing and getting home because I was replacing my windshield washer level sensor. So I tightened all 5 there.

Before parking at the airport for the weekend, I had attempted to just clean the sensor as a fix and while removing the front right wheel, I had noticed the lugnuts were rather loose. So I went round and tightened all 4 wheels... but since coming back, I had no reason to look at the rears. I usually do a once over paying attention to the tires, and also use the on-screen TPMS monitor. Here's something else to add to the pre-driving check.

There's this nagging feeling that the service person did something to my lugnuts on the way out for tire balance. I have been in this waiting room too damn long for what I think a balance & rotate + alignment should take.

But I let them bend me over on the expensive lugnuts:

1. If any issues come up, they can't say it's due to me driving home on 3 lugnuts. I have spare nuts at home, but I live about an hour from the dealership.
2. Give them an opportunity to correct any issues that may be their fault. I'll obviously check that corner when I get home.

They didn't tell me if any other nuts were loose, because it would help explain if someone tried to steal my slightly curbed wheel at the long-term parking lot.
I checked the car when I got it and I am sure that 2 nuts are new now. But I still have a crappy taste in my mouth for a chunk of the $223.86 total I paid.
They didn't charge me labor for the new lug nuts. Geez, thanks dude!
What is an environmental/ shop supplies charge for an alignment anyway?


So here's the positive spin. I am glad that I only paid 19 Dollars to avoid a catastrophic event on the highway. I am human and I make mistakes. I forgive myself 100% of the time. Most of the beings I interact with are human too, and it would be only fair to extend the same courtesy to them. I failed to inspect my car before driving and for 19 bucks, someone saved me a lot of frustration or even my life.
I crosscheck other people's work, and at some point someone should check my work too.

[njjuliano]

I went for an oil change at the dealer a few years back, needed a car and get the oil done on same day. Once home, I casually glanced at the car, I noticed that the cover was bowing alot lower than usual. Looking under, not all of the clips were put back and it was obvious that the tech just decided to just bend it to install the filter. I know its a pain, but that would be something that I would expect only the dealer would painstakingly do. After I mentioned it, I was offered to buy more clips and bolts to have it installed in the next oil change.... (side note, aware that it can bow from age and heat, but this was when car was new, I was checking the outlines of the car religiously, and paid attention to the little details).

Concerning alignment, I looked for a shop and found a good Tires Plus that has a Hunter (apparently better machine) that has the usual lifetime alignment, rotate and balance. Not as convenient, no car nor wash, but if scheduled correctly, well worth it. I get it done 2x a year for all cars. Lifetime costs a bit less than twice a one time service.

[Shanehsmp]

$96 For a cabin air filter change is quite possibly the most insane thing I've seen today. WOW!

[pedsemdoc]

EdBwoy -

I have the same feelings when I go to my dealer.
I usually tell them that I take care of most of the simple maintenance items, and they don't usually push too hard to upsell me stuff. BUT, they definitely put down the list of items that "need attention" on the summary of their inspection. I usually take care of those things before the next visit.
Man, I do like the fresh coffee/hot chocolate, yogurt, fresh muffins, cookies, granola bars, fruit, etc. AND the car wash (plus, whatever tire shine product they use, seems to last a pretty long time, with no spin off.)

The funny thing is It seems like I get a new service advisor every 3 months or so (when I get my oil changed) I know I could do it myself, but taking off the lower cover's 9-20 bolts is a pain in the @ss and I don't have a lift, so I've got to either haul out the ramps or jacks/jack stands. Maybe once I install the Tollboothwilley cover with the removable panel and a Fumoto drain valve, I'll start doing it myself.

$96 is a little ridiculous for a cabin air filter change. (pull out glovebox, remove about 8 phillips head screws, pull off plastic piece, remove cabin air filter door, replace filters, complete steps in reverse to finish) Although, getting the glovebox to seat back correctly is something you just have to futz with for about 10-15 minutes.

Craig

[EdBwoy]

In all that, I forgot to mention that the main reason I went was because I have neither the tools nor desire to balance tires and align wheels (I can do decent approximations with some string and jackstands, but the circumstances have to really justify the time I'd put into that).

After the initial alignment, I had to go back and get them to correct a cocked steering wheel. I don't think I have OCD or anything, after all the wheel had been cocked to the left for a while. I deliberately mentioned that I wanted the alignment checked and to ensure the steering wheel was straight. It was now too far right and even jumping lanes wouldn't help at all so I went back before it drove me crazy.

NJJuliano, I will have to search a little closer to home this time. I think the lifetime alignments definitely pay for themselves, although in the past I never took advantage of them. When I lived in Iowa I mainly drove my Jaguar XJ8 and to avoid the hour long commute to the dealer I took it to a respected Ford dealership whose service techs did a wonderful job. Of course, they offered no such deals. Back then I also took the cars to the dealer to get a second set of eyes. Living in St. Louis, I had gotten used to the annual or 2-year safety inspection. I always knew the $12 inspection would turn to a laundry list of recommendations*[see very bottom], but at least someone was looking at the car. I loved Iowa. You show them a title and part with some money, and you get a license plate or renewal tag/ tab - no inspection, no emission, no insurance, no hurdles. I live in Illinois now, and there has been no mandated inspection so far. The downside is that noone pushes for vehicles to be checked and there are a lot of unsafe hunks of metal on the road.
I will keep an eye out for shops with Hunter machines. Thanks for the tip.
As much as I don't mind relocating for work, this part about sifting through the riff-raff to build relationships with honest automotive connections kinda blows.


On the service costs, those quotes are gasp-worthy. But as the good doc said, the in-cabin filter can be quite involved. Plus that sucker is expensive. I buy mine from walmart and still feel like a victim of daylight robbery... of course they recommend annual replacement.
The engine filter shocked me too. It is not very expensive, but damn! the effort to replace it is just 2 extra wrist snaps longer than to check if the dang thing is dirty.
For the fluids, they must have been wearing their tinted glasses, because my fluids look pretty clean. (Still planning a major fluid transfusion in the Fall - working under jackstands sucks)

...I do like the fresh coffee/hot chocolate, yogurt, fresh muffins, cookies, granola bars, fruit, etc. AND the car wash (plus, whatever tire shine product they use, seems to last a pretty long time, with no spin off.)

I need to have my people talk to your people because:

1. An empty snack basket is an abomination. If you're giving us no snacks, put the basket away.
   In hindsight, I should have walked across to their Audi and BMW lounges to see what they had going on (campus style dealership chain), but I was too busy slamming Q70L doors, jumping on QX80 running boards and dodging nasty looks for popping hoods on the Infiniti showroom floor.
2. Their tire shine is shiny, but boy is it slick. I lit up my SLIP light at every stop sign and fishtailed turning left to go up the hill. They must have driven the car through a tire shine puddle

* So here's the long addendum to the story:
Location, St. Louis, Missouri.
I switched cars pretty often in my younger days and for inspection to get license plated I would almost always go to the same Midas shop because it was close to where we lived and they seemed to have no problem getting us in with minimal wait time (Making appointments was pointless, sometimes I just dropped the car off and walked home to go back in the evening). The only problem was that every single time I brought a car in, they would want to fail its inspection due to a hole in the exhaust. Midas mostly claimed and pointed at an obscure area of the flex pipe or some gasket flange and quoted between 80 -120 bucks to repair the issue, depending on how fancy the car was, or so it seemed.
They also changed managers ever so often that they probably didn't notice someone would be keeping track of the common thread.

Sometimes I just asked them to mark the area and I'd go home to put some furnace weld in the area and come back in 2 days and say that I fixed the problem. I don't know if they checked, or how thoroughly they checked, but I'd usually pass with flying colors.
Sometimes I just forfeited the 12 Dollars and went to an Autotire close by who would then want to fail me for a bad brake component, saying nothing of my exhaust system. Man, I love auto repair shops.

When I transferred for school to a small town in the middle of Missouri, I got a recommendation to a small mom-and-pop outfit (son-and-pop if we're being accurate here) that was honest to a fault and we had a good relationship with them getting quite a lot of my business over the time I studied there.


Both types of shops would point out some legit concerns, but for the most part, the first kind seemed to like recommending "quick labor specialty" that would be an easy money-maker for them.
... or I need to learn to trust businesses a little more.

[Larz]

The bottom line that all know is this: For any service or repair performed at the dealer, it's all about the labor. I am sure that dealers (and Inifiti Corp) make a nice profit margin on all the parts they sell, but the labor charge is the buttered bread that pays the salaries and keeps the lights on. The cabin filter is one of many perfect examples. I buy my cabin filters online (non OEM) for about $20-25. If I wanted to really be cheap, they can be had for about $10. It takes me less than 30 minutes to remove / install. Infiniti charges nearly $100.
I don't blame Inifniti for the price difference. Somebody has to pay these techs a very nice wage, provide health care benefits, vacation, etc and keep the lights on. However, there are many service / maintenance chores that can be done at your place rather than their place. It all comes down to your experience, tool assortment, and any other equipment needed.
People like Ed and others have a great deal of experience, a respectable tool assortment, etc and they will save a great deal of money by doing things themselves. People like me with a limited tool box and only basic knowledge will have to rely on paying someone else to do lots of jobs on our cars.
I usually get a discount on my service work when it gets to big money items as my service rep knows me and my car. I am there 4 X per year for oil / filter changes and they know they are the only place my car gets repairs. My last bill for general maintenance was over $1500. My service rep reduced some of the labor charges for me and 'threw in' other items instead of charging full tilt as a thank you for giving him all my business. That, plus doing little things myself is the the maximum savings I can get so I'm content with the expense of ownership on my car.
I won't be having children, but I were, I would make sure my kids went to the best schools I can afford PLUS coax them to learn a trade on the side like plumbing, refrigeration, electrical, or auto mechanics (assuming these were not the career path they choose). Whatever career they go after, they will have an excellent way to make some extra money or a fall-back if they lose their main job.

[EdBwoy]

...For any service or repair performed at the dealer, it's all about the labor. I am sure that businesses make a nice profit margin on all the parts they sell, but the labor charge is the buttered bread...

It all comes down to your experience, tool assortment, and any other equipment needed.

These 2 points capture it well. I would also like to add the time factor. You pay for what you don't know and you pay for convenience.

In my house I can do some plumbing, trace my electrical issues and even do my own landscaping... but I don't have time fot it. I pay a guy to cut my grass because if I did it myself, then I'd have to pay someone else to do my car maintenance for me. I stick with what I'm good at, and what I enjoy.



Talking of tool selection, I don't think I have that extensive of a collection. With the items on this wall, I've done 99% of the things I needed done to my vehicles, including several engine replacements. Not pictured are the engine hoist, engine stand, breaker bar, jack stands, jacks and a few other odds and ends.


Edited for clearer pictures.

[EdBwoy]

I'm going back to the Infiniti dealership. My alignment definitely got worse when I took it in.

I got a chance to get on the highway for a longer trip and the car definitely pulls to the left. So, the steering wheel might be straight when rested or parked, but I have to have it cocked right to stay straight while driving.

And they have a Hunter Machine I was told. We'll see how it goes, but I'm considering asking for my money back and just finding someone closer to home if I have to keep going back for correction.

[EdBwoy]

I think after 3 cars to this dealership I want us to take a break from each other and see other people. After replacing my steering rack on the 03 M45, I took it there for an alignment.
[Don't ask, they're the closest Infiniti dealership, and I wanted to provide a chance to redeem themselves]


A month later I am removing the wheels and I notice my steering rack has a torn booth and the other side is twisted. I took it back to the dealership and they suggest it could be a rock or something. I tell them that's not impossible but definitely there's something more realistic here - someone turned the inner tie rods without unclamping the boots. They told me that the work was done by one of their finest techs so they don't think he could have done this. Yikes, show me what your regular guys can do

Driver side


Pass side



Anyway, they agree to order a new boot for me and even do it for free. I'm not sure how I feel about this. I am spending time and money on these return trips so they shouldn't make it seem like it's a huge favor on their part.
So I got to drive a very cute white QX50 or EX37. I really enjoyed playing with its all around camera. And boy, the V6s have come a long way since 2003.

[pedsemdoc]

A month later I am removing the wheels and I notice my steering rack has a torn booth and the other side is twisted. I took it back to the dealership and they suggest it could be a rock or something. I tell them that's not impossible but definitely there's something more realistic here - someone turned the inner tie rods without unclamping the boots. They told me that the work was done by one of their finest techs so they don't think he could have done this. Yikes, show me what your regular guys can do

Yikes, sloppy workmanship/no attention to detail/rushing the job....

I brought my car home from the dealership after getting some work done, and there was coolant all over the engine bay...
I am pretty anal about getting my engine bay clean, so I brought it back and showed the service adviser, who was extremely apologetic and offered to give me a free detailing the next time I brought it in (it was raining at the time, so I took a raincheck)
I feel like I almost need to take a photo of my wheels, interior, engine and undercarriage before bringing it to the dealership - Grubbs (my dealership) is pretty good, I haven't had any serious problems with them, and if there has been an issue, they have resolved it to my satisfaction.

[EdBwoy]

...it was raining at the time, so I took a raincheck...

First off,

I feel the same way too and recently I have resorted to some practice, although it feels kinda rude. I inspect the body and check for wheel scuffs, duck under the car to confirm nothing is sagging etc, then hand over the key. I do the same inspection when I get the car back.

What is the auto repair facility equivalent of a restaurant waitstaff spitting in your food? Asking for a friend.