Think you can drift....
I have came across this new technique:
come to a corner fast, turn ur steering wheel in the direction of the turn, still holding onto the gas, downshift and KEEP ur feet on the gas let the clutch go and your tires will loose it's traction, and keep feedin gas, oh yea dont 4get to countersteer. I don't know if this makes sense, but I have tried it and it keeps my rear breaks traction real easy.
come to a corner fast, turn ur steering wheel in the direction of the turn, still holding onto the gas, downshift and KEEP ur feet on the gas let the clutch go and your tires will loose it's traction, and keep feedin gas, oh yea dont 4get to countersteer. I don't know if this makes sense, but I have tried it and it keeps my rear breaks traction real easy.
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skydragoness
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92' 240sx 60k survivor :) - Location: North DFW, TEJAS
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i dont understand why there is all this hate on FF cars, but yeah i have this option video dubbed FF tuning and there is is this guy who drifts an E-whatever, an civic hatcchback hehe, anyways its cool, i mean it is like he is **** draggin* thats what i have heard some FR drifters call it, but yeah he use to drift an s13 on the mountain passess for a couple of years, then he finally wrecked it one day, and with his budget u bought a civic and decided to stick to it becuase he didnt beleive that FF had to "bow down to the so called almighty FR cars" so yeah lets not forget this all just connects to the fact we love import cars!!
If you define drift as a condition where power applied to the wheels is used to control yaw (oversteer) in a slide then a fwd car drift.
If in the definition you include the fact that power must be applied to the rear wheels, then no you can't drift a fwd.
I used to drift my '86 prelude without touching the ebrake. i'd approach the corner crossing inside to outside, pendulum outside then toss inside as used light to moderate braking to shift weight forward and unload the azz end. When the back came out i'd countersteer and use power to control the oversteer, if i was oversteering a little more power would pull the front end inline and backing off the power would cause it to tighten up and break out if you're really braking hard. i did have several "offroad" excursions while learning this technique. the balance and the wheelbase made it hold a pretty stable set once it was in countersteer which it allowed it to drift or do a good job at replicating a drift.
Ever try to drift a crx? I have a '90 rex and the best i could get is a 4 wheel power on drift on pavement. it's quick throgh the twisties that way but it's just too small of a wheelbase to drift. On dirt the short wheelbase allows me to pitch it with either a stab of power or some ebrake if i need to rotate quick. it's a hell of a lot of fun on a twisty dirt and gravel mountain pass. When it does slide it don't look pretty or show off but when i toss it around it goes where i point it and fast. it had an incredible yaw rate. one day i was playing around with it and i tried to use the ebrake to pavement drift at approx 60mph and it rotated so quick i snapped it 360*around before i caught it.
this is a funny thread tho.
did u notice the fog lights on the front fork? And don't make fun of the basket, it's carbon fiber. Bomex makes it for the JDM huffys and murrays! I drift my mountain bike on dirt when i'm bombing a fast downhill. I shift my weight forward and kick out the back end and countersteer and I can hang it out sometimes (but then again sometimes i biff it hard trying) without using my brakes to break loose.
If in the definition you include the fact that power must be applied to the rear wheels, then no you can't drift a fwd.
I used to drift my '86 prelude without touching the ebrake. i'd approach the corner crossing inside to outside, pendulum outside then toss inside as used light to moderate braking to shift weight forward and unload the azz end. When the back came out i'd countersteer and use power to control the oversteer, if i was oversteering a little more power would pull the front end inline and backing off the power would cause it to tighten up and break out if you're really braking hard. i did have several "offroad" excursions while learning this technique. the balance and the wheelbase made it hold a pretty stable set once it was in countersteer which it allowed it to drift or do a good job at replicating a drift.
Ever try to drift a crx? I have a '90 rex and the best i could get is a 4 wheel power on drift on pavement. it's quick throgh the twisties that way but it's just too small of a wheelbase to drift. On dirt the short wheelbase allows me to pitch it with either a stab of power or some ebrake if i need to rotate quick. it's a hell of a lot of fun on a twisty dirt and gravel mountain pass. When it does slide it don't look pretty or show off but when i toss it around it goes where i point it and fast. it had an incredible yaw rate. one day i was playing around with it and i tried to use the ebrake to pavement drift at approx 60mph and it rotated so quick i snapped it 360*around before i caught it.
this is a funny thread tho.
did u notice the fog lights on the front fork? And don't make fun of the basket, it's carbon fiber. Bomex makes it for the JDM huffys and murrays! I drift my mountain bike on dirt when i'm bombing a fast downhill. I shift my weight forward and kick out the back end and countersteer and I can hang it out sometimes (but then again sometimes i biff it hard trying) without using my brakes to break loose.
What your describing is an inertial drift... the only thing is... you can slide your car in a straight line... you cannot however slide your car around a longer turn while keeping the car sideways and controling the car with the throttle... because as soon as you apply the throttle instead of the wheels spinning and keeping the car controlled your tires will immediatly grip and straighten the car out... which mean you need a very wide entrance point and a wide exit point.... this however cannot be done on a larger turn because your would a) run out of steam unless your hit the throttle b) soon as you hit the throttle you straighten up c) your fwd can cut the corner but it can't perform long rounding drifts....
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not_a_porsche
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Freak, you're right in the fact that it's an inertial drift but my prelude could sustain a 40 to 50 degree pitch with countesteer around a 90 degree corner from outside to apex to outside on a track width of approximately 20 feet edge to edge. I could force it to go more than 90deg but i wouldn't be exiting the corner in a drift, merely lining up by reducing countersteer and stabbing the throttle to make it exit tighter ends the slide but it does out you through in that car pretty tight and fast. As i said above, it depends on what you consider a drift.
Back when we were kids we used to go road and rally racing around construction sites before they built anything but after they put the roads up in those big gated communities. We'd run what ya brung kinda thing and i used to drive stuff like my '82 ford tempo, my ford f-150 truck or my little POS Ranger, and i've even brought out a chevy astrovan before. i'd race against all kinds of other vehicles, toyota 4wd trucks, chevy s10's, 1st gen crx's, corollas, whatever anybody had. no high performance stuff, just beater daily drivers and bone stock stuff. It was all about the drift too, caus we'd run on some pavement, some gravel, some dirt, and we'd mark out mad twisty sections. that was some of the most fun i ever had driving. we'd actually do battle inches apart sometimes even trading paint (hey rubbing's racing, haha) and in the course of that i drifted all kinds of vehicles all different ways. minivans are hard to drift tho, and it's scary cause of the rollover factor, but hey we were young and dumb and at least we did have enough sense not to go road racing on public roads.
Oh yeah, and one time i was testing a built chevy350 engine before it went in the project, i put it in a stripped down 80's caprice with no alternator, cooling fan, etc, just test ran it off the battery, no glass, or interior, mos of the body already parted out, basically a chassis stripped of everything and it was so light that with 300+ hp that the engine was putting out i could drift it completely around the block in the industrial complex where we were building it. that plant went in a 67/69 camaro hybrid lightened up with a built auto trans, posi/w 4.11 and drag suspension on the back. it ran low 11's NA on pump gas and was still extremely streetable.
Back when we were kids we used to go road and rally racing around construction sites before they built anything but after they put the roads up in those big gated communities. We'd run what ya brung kinda thing and i used to drive stuff like my '82 ford tempo, my ford f-150 truck or my little POS Ranger, and i've even brought out a chevy astrovan before. i'd race against all kinds of other vehicles, toyota 4wd trucks, chevy s10's, 1st gen crx's, corollas, whatever anybody had. no high performance stuff, just beater daily drivers and bone stock stuff. It was all about the drift too, caus we'd run on some pavement, some gravel, some dirt, and we'd mark out mad twisty sections. that was some of the most fun i ever had driving. we'd actually do battle inches apart sometimes even trading paint (hey rubbing's racing, haha) and in the course of that i drifted all kinds of vehicles all different ways. minivans are hard to drift tho, and it's scary cause of the rollover factor, but hey we were young and dumb and at least we did have enough sense not to go road racing on public roads.
Oh yeah, and one time i was testing a built chevy350 engine before it went in the project, i put it in a stripped down 80's caprice with no alternator, cooling fan, etc, just test ran it off the battery, no glass, or interior, mos of the body already parted out, basically a chassis stripped of everything and it was so light that with 300+ hp that the engine was putting out i could drift it completely around the block in the industrial complex where we were building it. that plant went in a 67/69 camaro hybrid lightened up with a built auto trans, posi/w 4.11 and drag suspension on the back. it ran low 11's NA on pump gas and was still extremely streetable.
not_a_porche - they are not the same.. a 4 wheel drift is different on a ff car than a fr car... a drift doesnt nesscesarily mean your sliding with 4 wheels.. thats an advanced technique and most people can't do it... most fwd cars have far too much understeer to complete a good 4 wheel drift... especially if its an inertial drift... most either keep grip or spin out... at least if they are throwing there weight around... if they just turn hard and happen to slide a bit thats hardly a drift...
Toosick - explain to me without using the word pitch or yaw and with out using degrees... as i do believe pitch refers to the up and down motion of a nosecone on an airplane... in which fact you have no idea what your saying... what im trying to say is that when your drifting, a REAL drift, you can pull yourself through it... it can be accomplished by the throttle out back but out front your just pulling your rear back through the line your fw just travelled through... completely negating the reason for drifting, its a slide with a sketchy finish... show me a vid of a fwd car doing a drift and i may change my mind... but i still stand by my example that a fwd car cannot drift around a longer winding hairpin, it would run out of momentum and prolly straighten itsself out when you touch the throttle....
Toosick - explain to me without using the word pitch or yaw and with out using degrees... as i do believe pitch refers to the up and down motion of a nosecone on an airplane... in which fact you have no idea what your saying... what im trying to say is that when your drifting, a REAL drift, you can pull yourself through it... it can be accomplished by the throttle out back but out front your just pulling your rear back through the line your fw just travelled through... completely negating the reason for drifting, its a slide with a sketchy finish... show me a vid of a fwd car doing a drift and i may change my mind... but i still stand by my example that a fwd car cannot drift around a longer winding hairpin, it would run out of momentum and prolly straighten itsself out when you touch the throttle....
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not_a_porsche
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- Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 6:33 pm
Drifting is oversteer.FrEaK wrote:not_a_porche - they are not the same.. a 4 wheel drift is different on a ff car than a fr car... a drift doesnt nesscesarily mean your sliding with 4 wheels.. thats an advanced technique and most people can't do it... most fwd cars have far too much understeer to complete a good 4 wheel drift... especially if its an inertial drift... most either keep grip or spin out... at least if they are throwing there weight around... if they just turn hard and happen to slide a bit thats hardly a drift...
There are 2 ways to initiate oversteer, one way is with the throttle and the other way is with the brake. FF cars use the latter.
'Trail braking induced oversteer' is what it is sometimes called, and since the back end of the car is coming around and all 4 wheels are sliding means you are performing a 4 wheel drift. The only difference is that you don't control it with the throttle. Doesn't mean it's not happening.
yaw is when the car rotates along it's vertical axis, pitch is when the car along it's lateral axis. the third axis of control would be roll, which is asymetrical compression of the suspension laterally (body roll) when the car is in yaw it is turning directionally, and when the car is pitching it is either loading or unloading suspension front to rear. loading or unloading suspension sideways is roll. When you brake you are pitching the nose of the car down and the azz up which causes increased traction up front and decrease in rear by altering the area of tire contact patch and weight applied to said area. A hairpin would be a 180deg turn, half a hairpin is a 90 deg. after 90deg the drift would end. I'd have to come in really hot 60mph+ to drift more than 90 and probably run stickier tires up front. I am not claiming that a ff car can drift like a fr, but just stating what i have found through experience what a ff can do when pushed outside the edge of traction. call it a drift, slide, skidd, azzdragging, whatever, but it does what it does. it's not pretty, graceful, and it can be a biotch to get it to break right, and if the slide balance is upset the resulting aciton can be just plain violent. If you really want to drift, then get a FR. If you have a FF drifting serves no purpose other than to teach you how a FF acts when traction limits are exceeded.
I haven't driven the focus yet. I agree tho, the 240 is definitely no comparison to a ff, even a well tuned ff but i still like driving ff's for the fun factor. After driving my 240 for about 3 months solid i blew it up and now i'm driving my crx again, and i forgot how fun the rex is. it feels like riding a street bike compared to the 240 and because of the weight it can change direction quicker but the 240 is smoother and likes to go fast. I'm gonna try to build my 240 with forged internals and turbo it. I want to try rally racing my crx. i think it would be the ultimate ff rally racer when well tuned, and besides i won't have to do all the bodywork on it if i'm gonna hit trees and stuff anyways and ding it up. This spring i'm gonna look into some beefy suspension for it and a weld in cage with harnesses. My next door neighbor wants to come racing and nav/call turns. I want to run the Prescott Forest rally and the North Rim in arizona. I take my crx out and do dirt road mountain climbs and descents and rally drift the switchbacks.
Naw man FF is alive and well(but way slower) in scca pro and club rally.
Light weight is a mixed blessing in the woods though. Tank like veedubs and even more tank like old saabs are more likely to be seen than hondas, less for their speed than their ability to take huge rocks and pot holes in stride. before you hit a club rally you should look for a rallycross around you. Way cheaper and you're not gonna wrap your self around a tree.
btw the pic above is from http://www.lastditchracing.net. They have a couple of videos as well. Check out the one with the tree.
Light weight is a mixed blessing in the woods though. Tank like veedubs and even more tank like old saabs are more likely to be seen than hondas, less for their speed than their ability to take huge rocks and pot holes in stride. before you hit a club rally you should look for a rallycross around you. Way cheaper and you're not gonna wrap your self around a tree.
btw the pic above is from http://www.lastditchracing.net. They have a couple of videos as well. Check out the one with the tree.