Think its possible?????

[hybrid_flyer]

Hey all just throwing some numbers in my head and was tryin to figure if it can or has been done yet.

I want to take my ka24de and get about 300-350 bhp out of but.....Ok yeah no problem you say. Now here is the catch.

I need/want the car to be 100% CARB approved. It has to meet Federal standards on emissions in order to pass a California enhanced emissions test. Meaning anything a smog tech can see (ie. headers, intake, etc.) must have an EO number. Things such as pistons, stroker kit, and piggy back ECU dont matter becuase the tech wont ever see them.

Keep in mind all emissions devices must be on the vehicle and functioning properly. And since my car (95 240sx SE) isnt ODBII, that wont be check either.

If you think you have it figured out, let me know. Please be sure to include what parts you would use. I am currently compiling a list myself and plan to list it when its done. Good Luck everybody.

Blue Skys

Jason

[ELITEBB127108]

isnt the greddy turbo kit street legal?

[hybrid_flyer]

yes it is, but that bolt on turbo wont get a ka to 300-350 bhp. ya gotta have more than that.

[BoyWonder]

Sounds like the short answer is no. I've never heard of any other kit besides the Greddy one being legal.

You could always keep a spare stock KA around just for that special time of smogging..Yes, it's a hassle to change out engines but if you really want to be "legal" and still have the power, your options in the land of the smog nazis are quite limited. The changeout should only take a weekend or so.. Afraid that's all I can offer.

[RatedR]

I thought Greddy never got out the carb numbers???

[[Zero-S]]

It hasn't been approved yet iirc.

[SeVa-S13]

It's NOT legal. Just because someone said they're trying to get CARB-approved doesn't mean they are.

And you will never reach those numbers without forced induction or Nitrous.

[gabossie]

If you really want to do that, you probably could given a substantial budget. Talk to WD about it, as he's working on a turbo kit and has some info on CARB legalities. It would require an incredible amount of money into R&D and testing to get it all done. Hell, it would probably be cheaper for you to buy a small piece of property in another state and register your car there so you didn't have to deal with the smog regs here.

[S13ChucKAT]

You do know that the greddy kit is adjustable.. get bigger injectors (which the tech wont notice), and a boost controller (hidden also).. and you could EASILY reach the potential you are looking for (with the FMIC)

[SeVa-S13]

I think the whole Turbo and IC piping thing might be a dead giveaway, but that's just me.

[Syntax360]

You do know that the greddy kit is adjustable.. get bigger injectors (which the tech wont notice), and a boost controller (hidden also).. and you could EASILY reach the potential you are looking for (with the FMIC)

i was thinking the same thing, but if the kit still isn't legal for whatever reason, than it doesn't matter anyway. before the injectors and boost controller, he needs to confirm that greddy has finished getting the thing legalized.

[hybrid_flyer]

well if you go to this spot in the ARB website

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/a...y.php

you can do a search for CARB approved parts for any vehicle. It isnt easy to sift through, but it can be done. Maybe turbo isnt the way to go. There are CARB approved superchargers available. Maybe there is one for this application.

The whole reason for this post is due to Edelbrock's CARB approved turbo for honda SOHC engines. And since I AM one of those SMOG NAZIs (as boywonder puts it), I figure my car should be smog legal.

[sx_coupe]

Why be a smog nazi? Care bout the world that much?

[whiterps13]

if you really want to do it the easy way, build up the enigne with forged internals, balanced crank, etc... you could easily hide a 150 shot dircet port with some sort of plates or covers. nitrous is for wimps, but it gets the job done...

[hybrid_flyer]

in answer to sx_coupe's question "Why be a smog nazi"?? because it pays extremly well considering the amount of work you do. Meaning you get paid a ton for doin no work at all. You put the car on the dyno, push some computer buttons boom done. Now a lot of places pay flat rate, meaning you get paid typicaly 2 hours for doin a job in like 40 minutes. Add that up for 8 hours in a day soooo.. there ya go.

as for whiterps13, I would really rather not do nitrous. Forced induction or all motor is the only way to go for me.

[mrflip69]

Why be a smog nazi? Care bout the world that much?

Come live in California. Fear getting your car pulled over and sent to the state ref. Then you'll understand.

Your best bet with the KA24DE is the Greddy Kit, and all of their turbo kits are supposedly CARB legal or pending. Just look up turbo kits by manufacturer at the ARB site. You'll notice a lot of their stuff is legal. Miata, Civic, etc...

You should know that there are CARB legal engine swaps out there though. I've been reading up on this for a looooooong time. Maybe a smallblock v8?

I posted a thread here before, still not yet totally confirmed, but you might be able to get an RB26DETT put in and it should be legal with some modifications, otherwise how would the Skylines get smogged?

[whiterps13]

as for whiterps13, I would really rather not do nitrous. Forced induction or all motor is the only way to go for me.

thats what i figured, but i thought i should throw that option out to you...

[hybrid_flyer]

i actually spoke with someone from CARB and they told me JDM engines and "crate" engines are not legal. But then the whole legal skyline thing popped into my mind? I wonder how they did it then. Probably for simplicity the CARB just tells everybody that its illegal so they dont spend all day answering tuner questions.

[f8sjester]

Even if you were to go for the GReddy kit, it's meant for the OBDII 96-98 models. . . and as mentioned, it's CARB legality still isn't finalized.

As far as Motorex and the legalization of the Skyline, there have been numerous posts about the lengths that they've gone through to get it through the CARB process. It's not just "bring the car somewhere and sign a piece of paper." There's a substantial amount of work and money involved to get each of the Skylines to meet guidelines. I mean, there IS a reason why they charge nearly double what the cars are going for in street value . . .

[masticatingcow]

I posted a thread here before, still not yet totally confirmed, but you might be able to get an RB26DETT put in and it should be legal with some modifications, otherwise how would the Skylines get smogged?

A little while ago a did some reseach legal engine swaps. It's a lot more complicated that a few simple modifications, or even a lot of not-so-simple modifications.

Firstly, the RB26DETT is notoriously hard to fit in the 240sx engine bay because the twin-turbo piping interferes with the steering assemblies. A few people have suggested that you could remove the stock turbos and replace them with one massive turbo, though this would immediately disqualify you with the BAR referee because you have modified the OEM asperation system. Secondly, the only RB's that are even remotely qualified for BAR-approved swaps are those from Motorex Skylines, which have to be registered in CA. So in order to make this swap happen legally, you have to buy a Skyline through Motorex, go through the registration process with them, pull the engine, and find a way for all the stock emissions equipment to pass USDM 240sx smog standards while it sits in the fully-built S chassis. Not likely.

Even though the RB25DET would fit more easily, you'd still have to pull it from a Motorex Skyline and tune it to pass USDM 240sx smog standards. For all intents, the RB is in NO WAY LEGAL.

Assuming the GReddy kit actually gets approved, it will be the only way to go. The next closest option for a LEGAL power upgrade would be (I still think) a VG30DETT. You still have the tuning issues and piping would be an complete nightmare, but at least it's already a recognized USDM engine that DOES pass smog on its own standards.

hybrid_flyer, if you want to keep all your upgrades hidden, meaning building up the KA with cams, pistons, rods, etc etc, then you probably can't break 200 bhp no matter how hard you try. Also, while a tech can't see your engine internals, wild cams and stroker kits will probably cause your emissions to sour. Assuming they actually pass, adding nitrous to the mix might help, though it would have to be a direct port 100 shot kit just to get you close to 300bhp. So it's safe to say that without heavy nitrous, 300bhp is impossible on a NA KA24DE.

[hybrid_flyer]

i agree totally, OMG my fate is in the hands of Greddy. I have lost all hope. The future looks pretty bleak.

[RatedR]

I doubt that Greddy's still goin through the CARB # process. Havent they been researching this for almost 4-6 years now???

[XQsThaipoes]

Firstly, the RB26DETT is notoriously hard to fit in the 240sx engine bay because the twin-turbo piping interferes with the steering assemblies. A few people have suggested that you could remove the stock turbos and replace them with one massive turbo, though this would immediately disqualify you with the BAR referee because you have modified the OEM asperation system. Secondly, the only RB's that are even remotely qualified for BAR-approved swaps are those from Motorex Skylines, which have to be registered in CA. So in order to make this swap happen legally, you have to buy a Skyline through Motorex, go through the registration process with them, pull the engine, and find a way for all the stock emissions equipment to pass USDM 240sx smog standards while it sits in the fully-built S chassis. Not likely.

Even though the RB25DET would fit more easily, you'd still have to pull it from a Motorex Skyline and tune it to pass USDM 240sx smog standards. For all intents, the RB is in NO WAY LEGAL.

How come you can't take a ca registered motrex skyline, and then replace the first engine/emissions package with the a second package do what ever smog stuff you had to do to get the car legal, and then sell the second package.

If it is legal to make Lt1 powered rx-7s in ca then this the same thing. You may even make a profit. I mean 50 grand for the motorex and sell the registered packages for 5k.

Also since the 240sx dates to 1989. This means you only have to be as clean as a 1989 240sx if you swap into one. It should work unless skylines are 15 years behind the s13.

[masticatingcow]

How come you can't take a ca registered motrex skyline, and then replace the first engine/emissions package with the a second package do what ever smog stuff you had to do to get the car legal, and then sell the second package.

Two words... VIN numbers. If you seriously think that Uncle Sam won't check these at each transaction, then you have a long long way to go before you can even begin to talk about "legal" swapping. Also, shaving VINs, fugging with paperwork, etc. are all NOT legal, and therefore defeat the purpose.

Plus, Motorex has spent lots of time and energy working out how to make a Skyline legal. It's not just emissions stuff... there's a LOT to it. They haven't made the process public knowledge, and frankly, I don't expect them to.

If it is legal to make Lt1 powered rx-7s in ca then this the same thing. You may even make a profit. I mean 50 grand for the motorex and sell the registered packages for 5k.

I think this question has already been answered... here:

i actually spoke with someone from CARB and they told me JDM engines and "crate" engines are not legal

So there ya go. All we know about Motorex's legalization process is that it costs ABOUT 10-15 THOUSAND DOLLARS and takes months. Where did the profit go? And who'se going to spend 20K for a used engine?

Also since the 240sx dates to 1989. This means you only have to be as clean as a 1989 240sx if you swap into one. It should work unless skylines are 15 years behind the s13.

Again, wrong. I'm not sure where your logic comes from on this, but CA engine swap laws dictate that the donor engine involved in an engine swap MUST come from a USDM, CA-certified car, no older than the chassis it is being dropped into. Also, after 1995, USDM S-chassis cars were S14s, not S13s. The S13 chassis only ran for 4-5 years (depending on the way you look at it).

Yeah, I know, it's a bummer, but that's why so many folks have decided to roll the dice and swap illegally in CA. If it works for them, that's great, but there are those who want to keep on this side of Johnny Law as much as possible. For those like that, choices are severely limited.