Things that other drivers do that I'll never understand.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I drive a lot, and that means I watch other people drive a lot. The people around me do stupid things. Insane things. A lot of things that make less than zero sense to me. I want to list them. It will be cathartic.

EDIT: BBcode has betrayed me. The bullet points don't work at all. I am not taking the time to fix them. We will pretend they are real bullet points.

• Creeping forward bit-by-bit at red lights, before completely forgetting where the gas pedal went when the light actually does turn green. ARE YOU IN A HURRY OR AREN'T YOU? PICK ONE AND STICK TO IT!
• Finding several seconds worth of something to do with their right foot between taking it off the brake and putting it on the accelerator pedal after a light turns green.
• Stopping 3 carlengths back at a red light. Then either determinedly staying right there or slowly inching forward for the remaining duration of the light.
• Leaving 1+ carlengths in front of them at drive through windows, while a line of cars is queued up behind them, waiting for them to figure out how lines work.
• THIS:
  
• Merging at 15+ below the limit, then hammering the accelerator pedal with the force of a thousand nuclear bombs.
• Happily passing multiple "Your lane ends" signs before forcing their way into traffic, sans signal, several dozen yards after the lane actually ends.
• Not driving at a consistent speed. (There's probably at least a 95% chance your car has cruise control. USE IT. It's better at driving than you are, and that's depressing!)
• Camping happily next to semi trailers.
• Reducing speed as they pass someone, then increasing again once past.
• Sitting in my effing blindspot for 100+ miles, no matter how hard I try to unmatch their speed.
• Brake, Turn, Signal (if lucky) instead of signal, move over, brake, turn.
• Accelerating so slowly I have to keep my foot on the brake to avoid a collison. MY CAR IS NOT FAST. HOW DO YOU MAKE YOUR CAR GO THAT SLOWLY?!
• Happily driving along at 10+ below the posted limit while a line of a dozen or more cars accrues behind them, without ever realizing it. In perfect weather. In the middle of the day. On a rural street with no cross traffic and yards of shoulder. And only one lane, with a center double-yellow.
• Being generally oblivious and inconsiderate.
• Not clearing snow off any windows except the left half of the windshield.
• Not signaling. Why would you not choose to make it easier for yourself and everyone else to accommodate what you're trying to do by clearly communicating what that is to others through a standard and easy-to-use means? Because you're a f*** dipsh@t, that's why. And you shouldn't have a driver's license. Give it to me. I'm going to burn it. And then pee on the ashes.
• Using only the far left lane, regardless of speed and traffic conditions.
• Slowing for intersections by letting off the gas 2 miles early and slowly coasting down to a stop.
• Surrendering to the apparently IRRESISTIBLE compulsion to PASS SOMEONE but not actually drive any faster than that person was going in the first place.
• Likewise: "leapfrog"
• Just generally not making sense or offering even the faintest vestiges of consistency for other people on the road with them.
• Driving around with their high beams on ALL THE TIME. DAY OR NIGHT.
• Driving with a missing headlight. Or headlight housing. In Idaho, it's entirely common to see accident-survivor cars with entire missing light housings on any given corner.
• The absolute NEED to be in the empty lane at a red light, even though you're not going to accelerate any faster than anyone else anyway.

I have three expectations of my fellow drivers, and 99% of them fail at all three 100% of the time.

• Pay attention
• Be considerate
• Follow the rules so we can all know what to expect from each other

If self-driving cars were actually any good in the real world, I might be reaching the point where I'd welcome them. But they're not, and likely won't be for a very long time, so now we get the worst of both worlds. Bad drivers AND bad computers. YAY!

When I'm Emperor, driving tests are getting revamped. Bi-annual practical and theory testing. Aggressive points systems for infractions. Graduated licensing. Minimum universal driving age of 18. Subtle, basic "traffic" education for all children starting in kindergarten, focusing on pedestrian traffic at first, to help develop good "school" or "flock" skills. Infractions involving inattentiveness or carelessness will be most severely reprimanded. Deliberate disregard for rules will be next. You're too special to move out of the left lane? $5000 fine and 50 points toward your 100 point maximum. Try that again, ***hole. Can't bother to merge as part of a group? $2000 and 25 points. You can erase points by taking your full driving course and test again and scoring above 95%, then maintaining 6 months of perfect driving afterward. If you can't manage that, you don't deserve to be on the road.

I hear so much about how self-driving cars are the future because humans suck at driving.
The answer is not to replace humans.
The answer is to hold humans to an actual standard, which we don't even pretend to do anymore. It's just unbridled chaos, with nobody on the road possessing an actual desire to do it correctly.

The most frustrating part? None of the items I listed above would ever earn anyone a citation. That's how broken our traffic laws are. We're too busy going after people for mild speeding in cars safely capable of much higher speeds, or not stopping quite long enough at a stop sign, or other such ignoramity.

[OriginalWheelman]

THE BEST GRAPH EVER.

I've actually talked to a surprising number of people who just do not look at their speedometers. You would be amazed, well maybe not, how many cars I've seen in a shop where the whole cluster was used as a shelf and none of the gauges / lights could be seen. They all say the same thing, they go as fast as the person in front of them, or they just go until it 'feels' fast enough. Like they drive with the force or something.

[szh]

EDIT: BBcode has betrayed me. The bullet points don't work at all. I am not taking the time to fix them. We will pretend they are real bullet points.

Fixed your "bullets" problem.

Could not fix the broken image ... not sure what that is supposed to point to!

Z

[OriginalWheelman]

The image worked before.

[szh]

The image worked before.

Actually, I meant the one that MoD has buried in his original post (near the "THIS:") - that link is non-functional.

Z

[frapjap]

I hear so much about how self-driving cars are the future because humans suck at driving.
The answer is not to replace humans.
The answer is to hold humans to an actual standard, which we don't even pretend to do anymore. It's just unbridled chaos, with nobody on the road possessing an actual desire to do it correctly.

The most important part of this whole conversation.

[Jesda]

I'd like people to have more appreciation for the rarity and beauty of a green left arrow.

DON'T JUST SLOWLY ACCELERATE. ENJOY IT FOR THE UNICORN THAT IT IS.

[Bubba1]

I lol'd at the list. Based on your gripe list, MoD, I think it's safe to conclude your head would explode from rage if you drove thru a typical northeastern city for more than 10 minutes. Probably a good thing you live in Idaho. Ironically, if you drove as you deem proper and appropriate in any major northeastern city, you'd be universally condemned by the same 99% of the population that you condemn. I can provide you logical explanations for most of those behaviors you abhor, as I'm a northeastern native. There are exceptions of course, like left lane speed limit vigilante's, they're obnoxious everywhere.

[numbnuts240]

living in new england has definitely turned me into a road raging monster. my biggest activator is when the person doing the idiotic thing gets mad at me for driving like a sensible person. you ran a stop sign and somehow i'm at fault when you almost t-bone me? wtf sense does that make?

[timay]

LOL. You would just want to kill everyone if you lived in Connecticut. Great list though.

[Buzzman]

My 2 cents worth:
--Biggest peeve bar none are the left lane parkers.
I'm Canadian (Ontario), and this problem is not nearly as severe here as it is when I cross the border.
It seems to be a U.S. thing to do. The further south I go, the worse it gets. Sitting in the left lane, driving at or below the speed limit, and not giving a sheet about anyone or anything else. Drives me absolutely nuts.

--As you mentioned, the holding back a car length at a red light peeves me off as well, because there are sensors in the road to trigger the lights to change.
If you're too far back, the light stays red. AArrggh.

--New one: How about being in a line of cars turning left on a green arrow? The first two cars go through nice and quick, but the third guy in line takes his sweet time getting a move on, and leaves a huge gap in front of him. This usually results in at least two less cars making it through before the arrow changes. I always seem to be the guy last in line who doesn't get through. MOVE.

Lastly (and this seems to be more of a U.S. problem vs. Canada): driving with no lights on during bad weather (rain storm, snow etc). How the hell am I supposed to see you, moron? TURN YOUR LIGHTS ON.

[AZhitman]

I've actually talked to a surprising number of people who just do not look at their speedometers. You would be amazed, well maybe not, how many cars I've seen in a shop where the whole cluster was used as a shelf and none of the gauges / lights could be seen. They all say the same thing, they go as fast as the person in front of them, or they just go until it 'feels' fast enough. Like they drive with the force or something.

I don't look at mine.

Then again, I'm rarely, if ever, below the speed limit. I run at whatever speed I feel safe, and don't really care about a stupid sign on the side of the road or some arbitrary number on my dashboard.

You'd be surprised how much BETTER people drive if they can't see their speedo. Stats bear it out - Drivers with slower reflexes or mediocre skills, when they notice they're 10 under, will speed up (exceeding their skill level) *just* to be in compliance. Likewise, drivers with ample skill and a high-performance vehicle are forced to remain *below* an appropriate speed for conditions, adding to congestion.

Obviously, the two can't coexist, so they put up stupid signs - rather than adopting MoD's suggestion of penalizing slows in the fast lane and speeders passing on the right.

[AZhitman]

Add this one to the list: The driver in the right lane preparing to make a right turn into a driveway who feels they need to swing left before making their right.

TURN THE GODDAMN WHEEL TO FULL-LOCK YOU LAZY PILE OF CRAP.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I'd like people to have more appreciation for the rarity and beauty of a green left arrow.

DON'T JUST SLOWLY ACCELERATE. ENJOY IT FOR THE UNICORN THAT IT IS.

Seriously. I hate it when people drag a** through left turn lights. And stale green lights. I've been known to yell obscenities (followed by "THAT f*** LIGHT WONT STAY GREEN FOREVER!!) out of my window at people creeping up towards a stale green light.
It has never worked, however it does make me feel better. Maybe its the New Englander in me.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Like they drive with the force or something.

It's worse than that. They find another car to be their "rabbit" and match their speed. It really, really sucks to become some ignoramus' rabbit. Especially since people seem very fond of following just off your aft quarter, which is often a great big blind spot.

[OriginalWheelman]

I've actually talked to a surprising number of people who just do not look at their speedometers. You would be amazed, well maybe not, how many cars I've seen in a shop where the whole cluster was used as a shelf and none of the gauges / lights could be seen. They all say the same thing, they go as fast as the person in front of them, or they just go until it 'feels' fast enough. Like they drive with the force or something.

I don't look at mine.

Then again, I'm rarely, if ever, below the speed limit. I run at whatever speed I feel safe, and don't really care about a stupid sign on the side of the road or some arbitrary number on my dashboard.

You'd be surprised how much BETTER people drive if they can't see their speedo. Stats bear it out - Drivers with slower reflexes or mediocre skills, when they notice they're 10 under, will speed up (exceeding their skill level) *just* to be in compliance. Likewise, drivers with ample skill and a high-performance vehicle are forced to remain *below* an appropriate speed for conditions, adding to congestion.

Obviously, the two can't coexist, so they put up stupid signs - rather than adopting MoD's suggestion of penalizing slows in the fast lane and speeders passing on the right.

I'm not talking about skilled drivers. I'm talking about the kind of people who bring their rusted out 20 year old chevy to WalMart for an oil change.

[Bubba1]

[. Maybe its the New Englander in me.

I've always been impressed how well Bostonians can multi-task while driving. For example, in Boston, if you don't move the split second after the light turns green, a Bostonian will honk, flash their highbeams, flip you the middle finger, roll the window down enough to ensure you can hear their cursing, ("Move your faaahking caaaaah!!!!) and begin to try to get around you... all at the same time.

As far as non-use of turn signals, in the densely populated and time crazy NJ/NY area, only naiive toursists use turn signals. Locals don't use them as they telegraph intentions, resulting in others preventing you from getting in front of them or otherwise hindering their progress. It's always been that way. If you've ever tried crossing the GW bridge during rush hour (even without Chris Christie's cronies shutting down the Ft. Lee toll booths), you'll quickly understand. It's also why many tourists that are crazy enough to drive thru there get frustrated and proclaim that the area sucks as the drivers are so rude. Nope, it's because you're using your signals, buddy. Bostonians actually go one step further and use the opposite turn signals in order to fake out other drivers wanting to prevent them from getting in front of them. It's true. For the record, I love driving in Boston.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

So I know there is a citation for "changed lanes without signaling", but is there a citation for "Changed lanes while using the improper/opposite signal"?

[Bubba1]

There might be but only if you're caught.

[AZhitman]

I would SO love that.

I've been driving the same 34-mile commute for over a decade. I can do it in my sleep... it's a 45mph posted, State Route highway, that runs diagonally across the grid-laid city, so there's a stoplight roughly every 1-3 miles (some of the 6-way intersections are overpasses). 3-lanes each way, parallel to a major rail line, congested during rush hour, with brief openings where a proper car/skilled driver can run along for short stints at 65-85 and avoid a few lights. Using the right lane, with brief forays into the center lane to avoid right-turning laggards, is usually the fastest way to navigate that stretch. Thankfully, it's the same pack of cars every day - you get to know the other vehicles and drivers, and you know who to stay away from, and who you can "buddy-up" with the make good time.

There's a girl in a white Jetta (ultra-sleeper) that has a lead foot and Danica-level skills, who has run the inbound route as long as I can recall. She and I happen to wind up in proximity in traffic about once or twice a week and run the gauntlet, providing openings for the other and exchanging a head nod ('sup) en route. She's a great rabbit, so I usually let her run out front and do my part to keep opportunistic, entry-level n00bs (and badged predators) off her six. She'll hold a lane for me if we're approaching a light, then jump a lane so I have an opening at the head of the pack. I can read her intentions by the way the car moves, and never once has she faked me out.

But, for every one of those, there's 10 more yahoos who *think* they know how to navigate Grand. They're learning the subtle differences between getting there on time, and getting stuck behind a box van turning left when the BNSF is switching tracks. Someday soon, I'll pass the torch to the next gunner. I wish Jetta girl all the best - She's getting a Starbucks card on my last week commuting.

[szh]

I hear so much about how self-driving cars are the future because humans suck at driving.
The answer is not to replace humans.
The answer is to hold humans to an actual standard, which we don't even pretend to do anymore. It's just unbridled chaos, with nobody on the road possessing an actual desire to do it correctly.

The most important part of this whole conversation.

Funny you should mention this!

As some of you know, my company works on next-generation automotive telematics and remote data systems. Our automotive team is currently in a debate about the technical, and other requirements, for autonomous cars ("self-driving") vs. enhanced driver assistance features (accident reduction/prevention systems).

I.e., which approach has more merit and viability today ... or in the near future. Not surprisingly, we have people in both camps!

Clearly, there are examples where implementation is viable today for some features. But other features are "research" projects, since the methods/technologies simply do not exist yet to implement them reliably.

The human brain (even in bad drivers) is remarkably adaptive to dynamic situations - it is able to process data inputs and conditions far beyond any programming systems in vehicles available today. Yeah, even the decisions of a bad driver - "bad" due to inexperience (age), stupidity (texting) or impairment (DUI) - are still superior to most programmed solutions today. DUI is a bit of an exception, though, since it is an impairment of the inputs and outputs (human) and the processor (brain) ... the "total system" gets messed up!

Because the sensors and processors available (for vehicles or otherwise) still do not approach the combined processing power of the human eye and brain.

However, the latency (input reaction time) and physical response (speed of communication to muscles and speed of operation) and consistency of the human drivers suffers in comparison to automated systems ... even when the conditions are restricted. A human simply cannot pump brakes as fast as an ABS system.

So ... and this is the crux of the argument ... if these could be "combined" somehow", I believe you'd get the best possible (today) outcome.

Meaning, a combination of automated responses based on accurate sensing of a [restricted set of] conditions handled by the vehicle systems with those handled by the human driver, who can adapt to unusual conditions, you would do very well!

This is the rationale for early implementations of ABS, anti-slip, and recent "newer" approaches like auto-braking, lane-change and blind-spot detection, etc. Because the sensors to detect those conditions are practical, single-minded, work quite reliably, and are generally better than 99% of human drivers. Particularly when including the responses (automated brake pumping in an ABS, or power shifts to inner/outer wheels in a curve, throttling for tire slipping, for example).

Another serious problem is the transition time ... measured in decades, since change in automotive systems does not happen to all vehicles overnight! If autonomous cars become common, there will be many decades where both types of drivers (autonomous and human) will be on the road. If each type makes assumptions about the other, I believe we will see increased problems (more accidents, more risk, less safety) in the first few years of overlap ... this could lead to knee-jerk reactions from politicians and others who stop or impede progress!

My reasoning is based on one observation: human drivers (particularly older ones) who still pump their brakes in hard stopping conditions, even though their car is equipped with ABS! And, even though we have had ABS stock on most cars sold for many years now! The correct response today must always to be to "slam on the brakes and focus on steering to avoid" rather than "focus on pumping brakes ... while not providing any steering input". It is a rare situation (e.g., tires on a gravel road) where pumping is better than ABS handling the situation!

And, don't get me started on the complacencies and assumptions that could occur with drivers whose cars are equipped with V2V or V2I systems ... that is a long discussion in itself.

We have some fun, long discussions at work working on these topics.

BTW, I believe - along with some other people here - that autonomous driving will be implemented more successfully (at least in my lifetime) in long-haul trucking far more rapidly than in personal cars. This is because fewer "vehicles" would need to be touched, and NHTSA has more clout with setting requirements on the trucking industry.

Z

[MinisterofDOOM]

OH, another one:

People who drive around with their high beams on ALL THE TIME.
Again, this seems to be mostly an Idaho thing, but DAMN is it prevalent there. I run into it in Utah more regularly than I'd like, too, though. I'll be trucking along at 2PM and there's some a$$ in a Lexus ES300 with not only his headlights unnecessarily on (some advertisement 15 years ago told me it was safer!!!!) but the HIGH BEAM to boot. For some reason, folks in these two farm states seem to think that you're supposed to just leave your headlights on 24/7. I wouldn't be surprised if they leave the car parked with a trickle charger on the battery so their garage can be extra well illuminated even when they're not in there, too.

I already hate daytime running lights enough, ESPECIALLY the ones that are just high beams on half wattage (they still lack a height cutoff and still glare significantly!). And I already think that people who drive around with their headlights on always--because some idiot study that's been disproven more times than I can count was referenced in an ancient ad promoting DRLs convinced them that it's safer because a gigantic two-ton block of steel is somehow easier to see in direct sunlight when your lights are on--are morons. But it's a whole different level of stupid to cruise around in daylight (or, honestly, in traffic at ANY time, day OR night) with your effing high beams on.

If you can see other cars, your brights should be off.

There is a big bright blue high beam indicator on your dash when they're on. If you can't figure that out, you shouldn't be operating a car.

Yesterday, I was driving down the major highway that eventually diminishes to a 1-lane backroad to my house. Behind me was a 2003 Accord with its high beams on. It was 1PM, with clear skies and snow crystalized to the point of mirror-finish by the last two weeks of sub-freezing temps. There has NEVER BEEN a day of better visibility. But Captain Accord had to have her high beams on because she's dumber than a bag of dead ferrets. I wear polarized glasses for exactly this kind of weather (glare from everywhere) but I'm not exactly fond of having two extra points of bright light aimed straight at my eyeballs because stupid people can't figure out how basic things like visibility work.

AND YET ANOTHER ONE:
People who drive slowly and build up a queue of cars behind them where there's one lane, but then speed up once another lane is added (where everyone finally has a chance to pass, but now can't because they lead-footed it). There's got to be some reasoning or other cognitive defect that causes this, because it doesn't seem (at least from the observer perspective) to be always necessarily defensive or aggressive. I almost feel like they don't realize they're doing it.
That same major highway that turns into a 1-lane backroad I just mentioned above? Yeah, it's 45mph the whole way, but where it's only 1 lane people seem DETERMINED to go 35 despite abnormally frequent speed limit sign placement. So you get this line of cars built up behind Mommy Minivan, but as soon as the second lane gets added she decides to do 55 instead.

[Jesda]

People who drive around with their high beams on ALL THE TIME.

I'm sorry, but if you've never dealt with real urban rush hour traffic then you don't understand. I turn my highbeams on at onramps to overcome the brightness caused by the morning/evening angle of the sun, forcing drivers merging on to the highway to see me.

There's a very, very good reason for it.

If you want to die, that's your business. I'm in a Miata and my vulnerability in traffic is very real.

[Bubba1]

^ I also agree. there are plenty of legit reasons. But as far as assuming the hi-beam idiot lights are clearly visible to all drivers, evidently you don't share your car or drive other people's cars. In this age of adjustable seats and adjustable steering wheels and overstyled dash boards, it's very easy to have a combination of settings that can obscure those idiot lights to the driver. Shockingly not all manufacturers put those idiot lights in perfectly visible locations as I'm sure you feel about your beloved Lincoln. In many cases, someone running with their high-beams do not realize their high beams are on until an oncoming driver flashes theirs to alert them. Ever since manufacturers switched the highbeam switches from a foot button to a stalk beside the steering wheel, it's become much easier to accidently trigger the switch to highbeams. I'm sure there will be another gripe with people that use their blinkers and forget to turn them off after lane changes. Same kinda thing. Then add in singing Kelly Clarkson songs out loud while driving (for example), that sick moose sounding noise could easily drown out the blinking "sound" in addition to having the seat/steering wheel in a position that obscures the idiot lights, those lights will be on. It is what it is.

And as far as the jack-rabbits that accelerate when additional lanes open up? In the northeast, that's completely normal behavior. The unwritten rule is "he who leads the pack wins". Another thing to consider when driving, which applies everywhere, if you lead the pack your car won't get pelted by debris kicked up by the vehicle in front of you. If your roads were as bad as they are here, and you care about your car, you'd probably do the same thing. And if you slow down t add space so that doesn't happen, then you're gonna complain about impatient tailgaters trying to get around you for being too slow. It's all a matter of perspective.

[txchamps]

I would actually be the blue line, until I hit the posted speed limit, at which point I would become the red line. The simple reason is because I use less gas. Remarkably less gas.

By actual experimentation, I have dicovered that accelerating at a more moderate rate can increase my overall mileage by 2 or 3 mpg. For my car, that's 5 to 10%, given the frequency of the number of times during my drive to work I hit red lights -- which at times can be considerable. Sure, it takes an extra 1 or 2 seconds (horrors!) to get up to the posted limit (depending on what that limit is). But I cannot justify spending the extra 5 to 10% just to please the guy behind me who wants to lead-foot it off the block. Wouldn't help much anyway, 'cause my car goes from 0 to 60 in around 10 seconds under the best of conditions -- not that I've ever tried it.

For the record, once I am up to speed, I avoid the far left lane like the plague. I'm not one of those vigilantes.....

[numbnuts240]

something that always bothers me that i encountered on the way to work this morning. cruising down the highway at around 75mph. about 200 yards ahead, i see a trooper parked in the median. naturally, i slightly let off the throttle and create some space between myself and the cars in front of me. as soon as they get about 25 yards away from said cop, they all slam their f*** brakes until they're going about 50. WHY?!?!?!?! this is CT. staties will not even look your way for doing 5-10 over the 65mph posted speed limit. beyond that, why did you wait until you could see the whites of the trooper's eyes before deciding you want to slow down? i saw him 7 seconds ago, wtf were you looking at during that time?

[Bubba1]

Yeah, that happens a lot. I'm amazed by how many people pay so little attention to their driving, which means they ain't looking far ahead, which helps explain why so many sudden braking for cops. I have very loud airhorns on my flatbed, that I'm always tempted to use when one of those morons start wandering into my lane. Of course I have to be mindful that they might freak out by the big noise, and do something even more stupid when they react, so I have to leave myself room to escape after using them.

[frapjap]

i saw him 7 seconds ago, wtf were you looking at during that time?

texting.

[numbnuts240]

i'll be honest, i make very obscene gestures at people i catch texting or talking on their phones instead of devoting 100% of their attention to the task at hand: driving.

[szh]

i'll be honest, i make very obscene gestures at people i catch texting or talking on their phones instead of devoting 100% of their attention to the task at hand: driving.

Z