These are Z's, not Civics.

[Ace2cool]

Seriously, guys. I know it's tempting to buy cheap parts to save a few bucks, but it's going to end up costing more in the long run when the parts fail. (Note, not "if," but "when.") These cars deserve way more respect than that. They aren't cheap to own, aren't cheap to maintain, and are downright EXPENSIVE to mod. Accept that fact, or GTFO and sell it. Buy a Honda. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Also, if you want ANY kind of innovation to continue for our cars, SUPPORT THE GUYS THAT ACTUALLY DESIGN PARTS, NOT JUST COPY THEM. When you do that, you're paying someone else the money that the guys who designed it actually deserve. The reason these guys make these parts is for the love of the car, but the reason they mass produce the stuff is because of money. When there's no money coming in for it, they'll stop making it. No new parts for the Z. No innovation. And who's to blame? You, who bought the cheap knock off parts. So yeah, thanks for that, on behalf of all Z owners everywhere. Thanks for drying up an awesome market for an awesome car.

Lastly, treat the damned car with some dignity. Seriously. DIY is fine, as long as the repair is OEM grade or better. Otherwise, do it right. Buy the parts you need and replace them. Seriously people, I don't understand why people are buying these cars, knowing full well that they're expensive, and then look for "the cheapest route" to mod the car. How about the best route? The one where you save money and pay people who deserve it? The one that won't fail in a few thousand miles? The one that won't possibly blow your engine? All in the name of a few bucks. I seriously cannot comprehend it.

This is just a rant. I'm getting tired of seeing high schoolers picking these up as a "fast car," and thinking they're gonna be so cool when it's all modded out. A spoiler bolted to the back isn't a tasteful mod. Neither is a bodykit. Neither are 7.5 inch wide wheels with a +40 offset and 50mm spacers. All that will do is ruin your wheel hubs. Seriously. It looks like a**, and makes all of us furious that you're ruining a perfectly good Z.

[Razi]

[addicted4life]

Amen!

[zcar93na]

I know where you're coming from, Ace, I unfortunately bought a Z who's previous owner took the cheap way out on everything. What started out as a small fix has became an expensive project. The more I tear into it, the more I find that is wrong with it. I learned my lesson when buying a used car, but I love my car and won't get rid of it. I already have more money in it than what was paid for it, more than I'll ever get out of it, so I'm keeping it. I'm basically having to restore it, so why cheap out? Do it right the first time. I do have to admit, I've bought a few parts off eGay because of price, but I done research to see what people had to say before I made my purchase. You do luck up and find good parts at a cheap price, sometimes, not all the time. But I believe for the 2 parts I cut cost on, I made up for and will continue to make up for on several other parts. Kinda wordy, I know, but I read this and felt guilty so I wanted to tell my story. Hopefully i don't get put in the Ricer category

[DCaff300ZX]

Amen Ace!
Owning a Z32 is not a cheap way to go, but there is a lot of pride to be had in having one that is in top shape knowing what you have done to keep it that way.
That way you get to have it for as long as possible and working as well as possible, rather than the other way around.

[DankZX]

Its not just cars, that how society is as well and its going down the hole. As a guy who owned one in high school, did all my own work with all my own money with top name brand parts and still have it to this day, its a sh*t ton of money but only if you do it correctly!! Good Rant Ace, full support from me!!!

[Ace2cool]

I owned my 2+2 in High School as well. First thing I did with it? Break the bumper on a curb. Second thing I did with it? Go to the dealer and buy a brand new bumper cover for $575. That's when I quickly realized the car was very expensive to do anything with.

However, there seems to be an increasing number of people trying to go the cheap route, and it just doesn't do the car justice.

[serg-z32]

Cause they be broke!

... Hi A'aron!

[300ZXttZMAN]

Truth.

Aaron, its just a mystery we can't explain. :/

[Shoey2]

fix it nice or fix it twice.

[Z-owned]

My spoiler is bolted on

[NolimitZ32]

I know where you're coming from Aaron, it's been really getting to me lately all the posts with oh well what if I get this part instead, and but I don't have the money to get the nice part.

[IonZ32]

When I was looking for a Z, I had a hard time finding a decent one at the time. Most people beat the dogsh*t out of Zs. So instead of buying a beater TT, which seemed to be all that was available at the time, so I bought a clean n/a off the original owner for my Daily

I feel everyone's pain though, haha especially trying to buy one. Sad to see thrashed Zs! If I had deeper pockets I'd buy, fix and hog them all!

[vulcanrush]

I know where you're coming from Aaron, it's been really getting to me lately all the posts with oh well what if I get this part instead, and but I don't have the money to get the nice part.

my favorite excuse is: "the economy is tough".
the economy has nothing to do with a twinturbo sports car.
great thread.

[Ace2cool]

My spoiler is bolted on

There's always an exception to the rule. You car is stupid awesome ridiculous clean.

[cjdubs]

interesting rant from someone who just posted up his xxr wheels... hypocrisy thy name is you.

[NolimitZ32]

interesting rant from someone who just posted up his xxr wheels... hypocrisy thy name is you.

Usually I give logical arguments and prove my point but to this I'll just say:

There is nothing wrong with a set of well sized well fitting (though heavy) wheels if you arent doing track duty, they have to comply with DOT to be able to be sold in the US. As for a cheap as set of manifolds, a set of chinese turbos, or some knockoff control arms, well thats another story.

[z32loverboy]

Or you could be having to decide if you should cut out the spare tire space and half your hatch area, find one not beat to F in a junkyard and weld that back in. OR cutting it out and welding a flat piece of 18/16 gauge sheet back in instead. That's my predicament seeing as a cop wreaked the crap outta my Z and F'd everything up except frame. God bless these cars are finicky hoe's. I think people just need to learn to sweet talk their cars, they act nice if you talk to em right!

[Z-owned]

There is nothing wrong with a set of well sized well fitting (though heavy) wheels if you arent doing track duty, they have to comply with DOT to be able to be sold in the US. As for a cheap as set of manifolds, a set of chinese turbos, or some knockoff control arms, well thats another story.

Not wanting to really get in to it but there could be a argument made in the knock off side of things regarding xxr's, same as rota's, varrstoens etc. That said yes I would rock xxr's long before ams manifolds or ebay turbo's.

[z32loverboy]

^ At least they ARE DOT approved. The mani's in question are dump and casting/welds break after a few short miles. Unlike the XXR's which, if treated right, will last as long as you want them to. I wonder if we weld up a few vegetable cans if we could make a mean "custom" exhaust?! Ace & Nolimit, I KNOW y'all are down to help me market that! lol

[Z-owned]

I have seen a coffee can used as a muffler lol. And yes like I said i would rather rock xxr's than any ams part etc. But the argument comes in with the "supporting the innovators" bit regardless of whether or not the knock off's are dot approved. But again like I said i dont really want to get into it so that's the last I am going to say on the subject. I would love to get some bronze battles myself and they are another knock off so......lol

[z32loverboy]

Yeah, i understand. Personally I do plan on getting a set of Varrstoen 2.2.2's (te37 reps) and only paying about 1k for a set of decent quality wheels that will not see track use instead of the 2.5k+ for actual te37's. That extra money will be put to use somewhere nice, like QUALITY MANIFOLDS lol

[NolimitZ32]

Support inovators is one thing which I fully support but if your not going to support the inovators and own a vehicle like the Z32 at least have the sense to not use s*** parts.

[vulcanrush]

interesting rant from someone who just posted up his xxr wheels... hypocrisy thy name is you.

Usually I give logical arguments and prove my point but to this I'll just say:

There is nothing wrong with a set of well sized well fitting (though heavy) wheels if you arent doing track duty, they have to comply with DOT to be able to be sold in the US. As for a cheap as set of manifolds, a set of chinese turbos, or some knockoff control arms, well thats another story.

actually, Anton, i agree with him. don't get me wrong, i think you're a very sensible and logical person in the z community.

but he does have a valid point: xxr wheels (and varrstoen, rotas, etc.) ARE an imitation, or knockoff of legit wheels. in concept, it's similar (if not the same) as ams.

i don't think the discussion was ever about the use or purpose of the vehicle (street or track), but where consumers' money were going. and by purchasing an imitation wheel, you're not supporting the real innovators such as volk or rays engineering.

[cjdubs]

Seriously, guys. I know it's tempting to buy cheap parts to save a few bucks.... SUPPORT THE GUYS THAT ACTUALLY DESIGN PARTS, NOT JUST COPY THEM.

I personally don't have a problem with xxr's. I was part trolling, part just pointing out a contradiction to his rant.

[z32loverboy]

Support inovators is one thing which I fully support but if your not going to support the inovators and own a vehicle like the Z32 at least have the sense to not use s*** parts.

THIS.

[Ace2cool]

interesting rant from someone who just posted up his xxr wheels... hypocrisy thy name is you.

Cosmetic parts are a completely different story. I challenge you: find a wheel company that doesn't offer a mesh design with a stepped lip, apart from American Racing or Mustang Replicas.

NOT TO MENTION:

I bought these wheels secondhand. Say I bought a set of Enkeis, or Rays secondhand. Guess what? Still no money going to either company. Now, when I'm financially stable and can afford to drop 2 grand on some wheels, that's when I'll order from the company that designs quality forged wheels. Context, you have none in this case.

i don't think the discussion was ever about the use or purpose of the vehicle (street or track), but where consumers' money were going. and by purchasing an imitation wheel, you're not supporting the real innovators such as volk or rays engineering.

See above.

[NolimitZ32]

actually, Anton, i agree with him. don't get me wrong, i think you're a very sensible and logical person in the z community.

but he does have a valid point: xxr wheels (and varrstoen, rotas, etc.) ARE an imitation, or knockoff of legit wheels. in concept, it's similar (if not the same) as ams.

i don't think the discussion was ever about the use or purpose of the vehicle (street or track), but where consumers' money were going. and by purchasing an imitation wheel, you're not supporting the real innovators such as volk or rays engineering.

I had a long reply typed out then comms went down and I lost it so in short. The reason for this thread was a bunch of questions from newbies about clutches and turbos and manis. To which the answers were to use quality components. The newbies came back with well what about AMS or XTD the rebutal from us was those are crap buy the good stuff do it right do it once. This was followed by a bunch of whining "oh but the AMS/XTD/Etc. is so much cheaper... and so on. So the main reason for this rant was the use of subpar components under the hood which would cause reliability issues, not innovaters vs. copy cats.

[vulcanrush]

interesting rant from someone who just posted up his xxr wheels... hypocrisy thy name is you.

Cosmetic parts are a completely different story. I challenge you: find a wheel company that doesn't offer a mesh design with a stepped lip, apart from American Racing or Mustang Replicas.

NOT TO MENTION:

I bought these wheels secondhand. Say I bought a set of Enkeis, or Rays secondhand. Guess what? Still no money going to either company. Now, when I'm financially stable and can afford to drop 2 grand on some wheels, that's when I'll order from the company that designs quality forged wheels. Context, you have none in this case.

wheels aren't cosmetic, i would argue having a stronger wheel is even more important than having quality manifolds (and i have msp's), for example.

the wheels have much more of an impact on your safety and the safety of others. so it's even more important to have a sound wheel.

true, if you bought a set of enkeis or rays secondhand, no money is going to the innovator. but at least the original purchaser helped support them. here, by buying xxr wheels, no money is going to the innovator, PERIOD.

Ace, i agree with your original post.

but if you're not financial stable, you shouldn't be modifying cars (a performance car isn't a priority), and two, wouldn't it be cheaper to just wait and buy reputable wheels when you're ready?

please don't misunderstand, i'm not commenting on your financial situation, it's none of my business. but this is the same excuse that ams supporters have:

1) i can't afford msp manifolds
2) when i get a better job, i'll pay for brand-name parts
3) the economy is tough

THEN WHAT ARE YOU DOING MODIFYING A TWIN TURBO SPORTS CAR?

[vulcanrush]

[I had a long reply typed out then comms went down and I lost it so in short. The reason for this thread was a bunch of questions from newbies about clutches and turbos and manis. To which the answers were to use quality components. The newbies came back with well what about AMS or XTD the rebutal from us was those are crap buy the good stuff do it right do it once. This was followed by a bunch of whining "oh but the AMS/XTD/Etc. is so much cheaper... and so on. So the main reason for this rant was the use of subpar components under the hood which would cause reliability issues, not innovaters vs. copy cats.

thanks for the clarification, Anton, hope all is well with you.