These are the primitive, ignorant people we're helping?

[AZhitman]

http://afghanistan.blogs.cnn.com/2010/0 ... /?hpt=Sbin

WTF is wrong with these people? They want our help, we're dumping MILLIONS into their prehistoric infrastructure, they CLAIM to want to be rid of the Taliban, and yet this is the kind of s*** we see.

Was anyone besides me seeing that picture reminded of a bunch of Skinnies attacking a downed helicopter in Somalia?

I just finished reading the TIME magazine article about the abuses and disfigurements of women carried out in the name of Islamic law... guess I'm a little cranky tonight.

[szh]

Mob violence ... people stop thinking rationally.

And, I agree with you about the disfigurement problem (that is too mild a word! ). There is NOTHING in Islamic law that advocates any kind of violence against women - it is people who make such crazy and insane things happen. Justifying it on the basis of religion infuriates me!

Z

[srellim234]

I wonder how much of the CLAIM they want our help is just that they want our money only and how much of the claim is our own government propaganda that is being fed to the press. Most, (though not quite all) American news organizations no longer are interested in doing the costly hard reporting when they can get a story much cheaper when it is fed to them. It's all about corporate profits in the American news corporations any more and the press is no longer the watchdog over the government for us that it used to be.

I'll dig up a link but I read yesterday that 60% of the Pakistanis on the street view us as being their enemy yet the U.S. government keeps feeding us the line about how they are our friends. We need to quit throwing billions of dollars at them, take care of our problems here at home and then look at helping them out if we can provided there's anything left after we get our own house in order.

[AZhitman]

Gonna have to agree with you there.

My desire to see us pull out completely and let them all kill each other is ONLY tempered by the sad knowledge of the dismal fate awaiting women and children when the Taliban returns to power.

[vikesfankevin1986]

I went to this thing at the University of Minnesota called "Women in Islam," and according to the lady talking women are actually treated very well in the Quran and should be respected. Everything this lady said is about how it was an honor to be a women in that society and covering up is not bad thing.
The only thing that got me is she said numerous times "well I don't agree with that translation..." Well then why is it in your presenataion? Doesn't it work with your beliefs?
I guess what I'm getting at is IF this lady is correct in what she is saying, the treatment of women over there is totally cultural and just accepted in that society but doesn't really have a basis as far as Islam goes.
If this lady is correct in her claims this is the big thing that stuck out to me...
1. Women are treated better in Islam but have no rights in their society.
2. Women are treated worse in the Bible but have a lot more right or are "equal" in Christian countries.
That leads me to believe this...religion does not play a part...it is simply how civilized the culture is. So finally, the US and Europe are a lot more civilized than the Middle East.

[AZhitman]

What's in the books is irrelevant.

What's happening in theat environment is what matters.

The tragic part of this whole thing is the same people who believe "that's their beliefs, leave them be" are the SAME people screaming for equality in our society. Human rights abuses transcend doctrine, and I don't give a f*** WHAT diety supposedly says it's OK to mutilate your wife / daughter / sister because YOU think she dishonored your family, you need to be punished for that behavior.

Where the HELL is the outrage from the supposed "enlightened" followers of Islam? Why are they not taking up arms against the perpetrators of these acts and doling out punishment?

Or, could it be that they're complicit by their inaction?

[wingFeather]

Nuke 'em.

[vikesfankevin1986]

Nuke 'em.

Haha...this

[IBCoupe]

Where the HELL is the outrage from the supposed "enlightened" followers of Islam? Why are they not taking up arms against the perpetrators of these acts and doling out punishment?

Or, could it be that they're complicit by their inaction?

Collective guilt is bad, Greg. Bad.

Just because persons A and B both read from book C, and B happens to be a raging nut doesn't mean that A has to denounce him.

Just because I self-identify as a Jew doesn't mean I have to apologize for Israel's crimes. Just because my college pal was Iranian didn't mean she had to explain Ahmadinejad's statements. I'm sick of people calling for denouncement from other people, if only because when it comes after that, how can you tell that it means anything?

Sorry if that was harsh. This story's been rubbing me the wrong way:
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4300561/mosq ... t_id=87485

That whole thing's pathetic (and it's not entirely related to this topic; sorry).

[AZhitman]

Explanations and apologies are different from denouncement.

A very public campaign of shaming and rejection from other, respected people in the Islamic community would go a long way towards shining a bright light on their ignorant barbarism.

Much like Christians have spoken out against Westboro "church"...

I'm sick of people making excuses for abhorrent behavior. Accountability is key. If I see someone being abused / mistreated, I step in, even at peril to myself... It's happened more than once, and has cost me. Maybe that's the difference between us.

[IBCoupe]

Would it certainly make a difference in the minds of some? Maybe even many? Yeah, sure.

But I'm not cool with casting aspersions on people who remain uninvolved, simply because they look, speak, dress, or act somewhat like the people who are involved.

[wingFeather]

But I'm not cool with casting aspersions on people who remain uninvolved, simply because they look, speak, dress, or act somewhat like the people who are involved.

Anyone who is innocent would distance themselves from criminals, right? Why live the lifestyle of a criminal if you're not one?

[AZhitman]

Aspersions don't hurt. And one thing my father always taught me is that character overcomes all, if we are consistent. Too many people miss that.

In other words, it doesn't matter what "aspersions" are cast about. If you're living above reproach, it'll show. Contrary to what they taught those of you born in the 80's, image is nothing.

Remaining uninvolved shows cowardice or complicity. Feel free to be one or the other.

[C-Kwik]

Anyone who is innocent would distance themselves from criminals, right? Why live the lifestyle of a criminal if you're not one?

Are you serious? Aside from the fact that your statement doesn't really apply to the context of the discussion here, its a rather ignorant thing to state. Many cultures dress a certain way because its part of their culture. I like to wear t-shirts and shorts. A lot of people do. But if a group of people who wear t-shirts and shorts start killing people, am I supposed to change my attire? What if the commonality was the color of my skin? What if language was the issue? I hear Kim Jong Il is Korean and speaks it as well. How do I become less Korean? Should you expect all South Koreans to learn a new language?

Understand regardless of how a person looks, dresses, speaks or otherwise, the difference between a criminal and a non-criminal is one carried out a criminal act. Everything else is a matter of coincidence. For the most part, its the criminals look like everyday people. Not the other way around.

[C-Kwik]

Remaining uninvolved shows cowardice or complicity. Feel free to be one or the other.

I think there are people who are genuinely scared of terrorists that have to live among them. Perhaps they are cowards, but complicit? Really? Complacent, maybe, but I can hardly blame someone for valuing their lives and the lives of their familes over speaking out publically against people who might blow themselves up to kill you. Regardless, the logic that they have to be cowardice or an accomplice is pretty flawed logic. As bad as the "You're either with me or against me" type of logic.

[IBCoupe]

I'd argue that there's a third option, though it doesn't begin with a C, so I'm kind of throwing off your alliteration, and I apologize for doing so: genuine apathy.

Why should a person care? You've accurately identified that I was born and raised in the 1980s, but misidenitified which 1980's-ideology I'm upholding. My question is: Where's the profit? What possible reason does an individual have to pooh-pooh something that doesn't affect them? I'm Jewish; Bernie Madhoff is Jewish. Do I need to denounce him, as a non-thieving Jew? Does the Jewish community need to come together to cast him out?

Of course not. Even if Bernie Madhoff's defense was that his religion made him do it, we shouldn't be expected to denounce him. People certainly shouldn't act surprised if it happens, but there's no excuse for outrage if it doesn't.

Especially if, as you say, image is nothing, why should we bother accounting for the actions of others? And really, if your critics are dumb and angry enough to lump you in with people who look/dress/speak/act similarly to you, why should you have any illusions as to the likelihood that you'll actually convince anyone of your sincerity? Image is nothing, right?

[AZhitman]

Lots of eloquent effort expended in what amounts to basically looking the other way. These are the conditions which favor evil.

[IBCoupe]

Maybe they favor evil. But they also favor having respect for individuals who have done nothing wrong.

[AZhitman]

You miss my point 100%. I always try to see both sides, perhaps those blinders are hampering your peripheral vision.

Nowhere did I say I don't have respect for those who have done nothing wrong. Besides, "doing nothing wrong" isn't enough. We should all strive to "do right". Passivity is the very problem I'm homing in on.

I'm saying there are a lot of influential, respected, well thought-of people whose condemnation and vocal opposition to the behaviors of a few radicals who pervert their shared doctrine would go a long way towards quelling some of their bravado AND send a message to the rest of the world, reassuring many of their intolerance for such misdeeds.

[IBCoupe]

And I'm saying that there's a difference between applauding when someone does stand up and denounce something, and complaining when they don't.

[AZhitman]

That could be applied to our own govt's handling of, say, a natural disaster.

Do we complain about the current Administration for ignoring Tennessee's recent disaster, and applaud them for humanitarian aid to Pakistan? Same problem, very different responses. (Just thinking out loud here...)

I guess I'm from the "do SOMETHING, even if it's wrong / unappreciated / questionable" school of thought.

[IBCoupe]

That could be applied to our own govt's handling of, say, a natural disaster.

Do we complain about the current Administration for ignoring Tennessee's recent disaster, and applaud them for humanitarian aid to Pakistan? Same problem, very different responses. (Just thinking out loud here...)

I guess I'm from the "do SOMETHING, even if it's wrong / unappreciated / questionable" school of thought.

I suppose the obvious difference would be that the government is tasked with doing those sorts of things. Our philosophy of individual liberty mandates that no one must do what you want them to.

It would be nice for an entire country to rise up in solidarity and say, "This is wrong!" But I'm not going to be losing any sleep when it doesn't happen, and I'm not going to blame anyone in particular for not doing it.

[IBCoupe]

It's hard to tell if this was an actual, representative sample of the Afghani people, or an actual, representative sample of angry Afghani street mobs.

Because I have no doubt that there's some difference between the two.

[IBCoupe]

I don't know what you're basing the closing of that gap on; I haven't seen anything that indicates that the Afghani people are any more like an angry street mob.

And that's a lot of inferences you've drawn from a single photograph. First, you infer that this is a common event. Second, you infer that because no one in the picture is trying to stop the mob, no one is trying to stop the mob. Third, you assume that people usually try to stand in the way of an angry mob.

There's an easy argument that you're wrong on all points.

[ChrisChildsTheRacist]

How many racist thread's can chris start in a day showing his true racist ignornat color's . ? vote up .lol.

[audtatious]

How many racist thread's can chris start in a day showing his true racist ignornat color's . ? vote up .lol.

Do the world a favor and kill yourself.

[AZhitman]

How many racist thread's can chris start in a day showing his true racist ignornat color's . ? vote up .lol.

My name is Greg, dumbass.

I see you've stopped taking your psychotropics again, Mr. Corley.

The only racism is from you. Anyone who names their YouTube channel "death of Israel" has no business calling anyone else "racist", you worthless festering boil on the a$$ of society.

You just keep sitting there on your drug-addled, disability-sucking hindparts, and I'll keep deleting and banning your accounts.

Back on topic.

[wingFeather]

There's an easy argument that you're wrong on all points.

Right back at you

[IBCoupe]

So make it, sweet pea.