The Tillman Story: A Review

A place for intelligent and well-thought-out discussion involving politics and associated topics. No nonsense will be tolerated at all.
User avatar
heliochrome85
Posts: 3048
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:18 pm
Car: 2006 G35 Sport Coupe Athens Blue/Slate with Sport and Premium Packages--SOLD

Post

In 2002, Pat Tillman, a star safety for the Arizona Cardinals, inexplicably gave up a million dollar contract to enlist in the military with his younger brother Kevin to fight in Afghanistan. Tillman refused to give interviews, which seemed ironic coming from a mouthy surfer jock who was never afraid to speak his mind, no matter how blunt the trauma. Tillman kept his reasons private and joined up with the Rangers for a three year tour-of-duty. Tillman made headlines for his “heroic sacrifice,” even though he just wanted to be treated the same as any other soldier. He would make headlines two years later after he was killed during combat and returned to his family in a pine box draped with medals, the American flag, and a steaming pile of governmental propaganda that his loved ones would spend the next four years sorting through to get to the truth. The unbelievable efforts to unravel the lies spewed by the Bush administration and to simply find out what happened to Pat Tillman is at the heart of the documentary by Amir Bar-Lev, The Tillman Story. Granted, it’s not exactly a stunning insight to point out the American government is underhanded and conniving and that politicians lie, but the extent to which the military went to spin the tragic accidental death of a soldier into what was essentially an enlistment commercial would sicken even the hardiest of hearts. The film is a fierce gut punch to decency and serves as a nauseating reminder that smuggling drugs in the coffins of GIs isn’t the worst desecration of a military corpse you can commit.

In the era of 24-hour news and pundit privateering, The Tillman Story offers up a wonderful yanking of the curtain to expose the machinery behind the spin. The U.S. government and the U.S. military sought to use the corpse of Pat Tillman as a soapbox to tout honor and sacrifice, figuring that the family would stand meekly by, dabbing eyes with tissues and waving tiny American flags. Little did they realize, they were f*** with the wrong family. Dannie and Pat, Sr., Tillman’s parents, would undergo what was tantamount to a fierce crusade to find out the truth behind the death of their eldest son. They would be lied to — repeatedly — by the soldiers who fought beside him that night in April of 2004, by the military he made a promise to fight for, and by the government he swore to protect. But they doggedly pursued their case. The government dropped over 3000 pages of partially redacted reports on them, which Dannie pored over and managed to un-redact through patience and research. They took the fight as far as it could go through the ranks of the military until they were able to get a hearing before Congress. Dannie Tillman explained to the congressmen, “Throughout this ordeal, we’ve been asked what would appease us. We’ll never get Pat back. We just want the truth.” And to this day, they still haven’t gotten satisfactory answers.

But through authors like Jon Krakauer and through this film, at least their message is heard. Pat Tillman was a hero — but not for the reasons the government tried to pin a silver star on. Fox News, CNN, and the rest of the news vultures tried to tart up Tillman as an onward Christian Soldier who would give them terrorists a choice between rock, flag, or eagle before he went America all over their asses. Tillman was a well-read fella who respected all religions, didn’t believe in an afterlife, and signed documentation specifically to prevent the military from carrying him home on a shield. And he certainly did not die a hero’s death. The government tried to claim a Taliban ambush of 20 or so raiders overtook Tillman’s platoon, and he sacrificed himself saving his fellow soldiers. After years of lying, the government finally admitted the truth, Tillman was killed by friendly fire — you know, “the fog of war.” But like watching a murder mystery, the truth proves to be more horrible and insidious. But I guess when your last moments of life are shouting “I’m Pat f*** Tillman! I’m Pat f*** Tillman!” as your teammates and countrymen take aim from a better shooting position to blow off the back of your head, it probably doesn’t play as well in the fly-over states.

What’s endearing about the Tillman family is how un-sanctimonious they are towards the efforts of the government to embroil them in the s***. When the government sends the casualty crew to meet with Marie Tillman — Pat’s wife, childhood sweetheart, and the only girlfriend he’s ever had — it’s not to console her, but to see if they can convince her to allow Pat to be buried against his wishes in Arlington ceremony. When they decide to turn his funeral service into a chance for politicos to give pretty speeches, Pat’s youngest brother jumps up on stage in jeans, T-shirt, and a frothy pint of beer in his hand to thank so many f*** people for showing up and saying pretty things but that “Pat’s f*** dead. He never believed in any of that God s***. He’s f*** dead, so all this is s***. Thanks.” Pat Senior, a lawyer by trade, after years of frustration on the part of his wife, sends a letter accusing the military of lying, and he cordially signs it off with “In summation, f*** you…and yours.” Which manages to reopen the investigation, and Pat’s youngest brother responds, “If my mother knew that all she had to do was tell the military to go f*** themselves to get an answer, she would have told them to go f*** themselves years ago.”

No one may ever know why Tillman served in the military. I personally feel his brother decided to join, and Tillman wanted to protect him and fight along side him. Even when he was offered a chance to stay home and not fight in a war he no longer believed in — and Tillman was very vocal about how the Iraq portion of the war felt f*** illegal — he returned for his second tour of duty and the one that would eventually get him killed by his own troops. Which would explain why even after the truth of his brother’s inglorious death came out, Kevin Tillman — the middle brother — remained and served out his entire three year tour.

All Tillman wanted to do was to fight for his country, which makes him, and any other man or woman who serves with that purpose, a hero in my book. And all his family wanted to do was to learn the truth about what happened to their son. Instead, the government and the military sought fit to jam hooks in the memory of this man and wave him like a banner. The Tillman Story should and does fill you with rage: outrage, plain old fashion disgust, and horror. I personally want to stuff Donald Rumsfeld in a doggie kennel transport and UPS his a** to The Hague. Hopefully, if you get the opportunity to watch this film, you’ll be lining up to help.
From
http://www.pajiba.com/film_reviews/the- ... m=facebook



im so pleased that this story is being told. For all those people who are putting up "Miss me Yet?" Billboards across the country for President Bush, i hope they hear a resounding "NO."


User avatar
stebo0728
Posts: 2810
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:43 pm
Car: 1993 300ZX, White, T-Top
Contact:

Post

Hey just because you dont like the person your dating now doesnt mean you have to miss the person you used to date ... lol ... with the direction "W" was headed Im not sure he would have towed a much different line that Obama has thus far. Lets remember the fist stimulus was a W move. Although a few "Bush v Pelosi" saturday night fights would have been interesting.

User avatar
heliochrome85
Posts: 3048
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:18 pm
Car: 2006 G35 Sport Coupe Athens Blue/Slate with Sport and Premium Packages--SOLD

Post

stebo0728 wrote:Hey just because you dont like the person your dating now doesnt mean you have to miss the person you used to date ... lol ... with the direction "W" was headed Im not sure he would have towed a much different line that Obama has thus far. Lets remember the fist stimulus was a W move. Although a few "Bush v Pelosi" saturday night fights would have been interesting.

its phenominal how much people have forgotten how the Bush administration manipulated them to get this war off the ground. With Greg sending family abroad to do this dirty work, and with countless friends having served, it sickens me that we are still finding evidence of how the Neocons screwed over this country, militarily, financially, and economically, in order to pursue their agenda. And we were hapless passsengers on what was clearly a suicide mission to "fix" a country that 10 thousand years of civilzation and countless invasions could not fix.

User avatar
stebo0728
Posts: 2810
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:43 pm
Car: 1993 300ZX, White, T-Top
Contact:

Post

heliochrome85 wrote:
stebo0728 wrote:Hey just because you dont like the person your dating now doesnt mean you have to miss the person you used to date ... lol ... with the direction "W" was headed Im not sure he would have towed a much different line that Obama has thus far. Lets remember the fist stimulus was a W move. Although a few "Bush v Pelosi" saturday night fights would have been interesting.

its phenominal how much people have forgotten how the Bush administration manipulated them to get this war off the ground. With Greg sending family abroad to do this dirty work, and with countless friends having served, it sickens me that we are still finding evidence of how the Neocons screwed over this country, militarily, financially, and economically, in order to pursue their agenda. And we were hapless passsengers on what was clearly a suicide mission to "fix" a country that 10 thousand years of civilzation and countless invasions could not fix.
Ive shifted considerably on this stuff. When the "shock and awe" started I was like YAH GO GET 'EM! But the lens of history has begun so show some of the dirty side of this thing. I honestly do believe W meant well, and operated on some pretty botchy information, but then as the current leader that is really not a good defense. I do think that we will soon begin to unravel alot of things that were averted that we are currently not privy to, but time will tell. Should our liberties have been ignored for such gains? Well theres no way to really tell until we know just what we in fact DID gain. But I would lean currently toward no. Im for torture, in some cases, but the naked doggie dancing thing was uncalled for. Waterboarding, well hey I dunno if it works and saves lives, and doesnt actually lead to the death of the individual then is it worth the gain if it saves lives? Im honestly still sorting out my notions on W's international policy, but there is definitely no doubt that he was a complete tool domestically. As a republican he by proxy must stand for reduced spending, and he vetoed how many spending bills? If memory serves he never even vetoed 1 bill from the republican congress!

With all that said though, we have entered a new era, a new administration, and the days of blaming W have got to come to an end, and the current administration has got to start taking responsibility. Hell Reagan had Carters debacle turned around in the amount of time Obama's been in office.

A side note, it seems Obama's approval rating does better when he stays relatively silent.

User avatar
heliochrome85
Posts: 3048
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:18 pm
Car: 2006 G35 Sport Coupe Athens Blue/Slate with Sport and Premium Packages--SOLD

Post

stebo0728 wrote: Ive shifted considerably on this stuff. When the "shock and awe" started I was like YAH GO GET 'EM! But the lens of history has begun so show some of the dirty side of this thing. I honestly do believe W meant well, and operated on some pretty botchy information, but then as the current leader that is really not a good defense. I do think that we will soon begin to unravel alot of things that were averted that we are currently not privy to, but time will tell. Should our liberties have been ignored for such gains? Well theres no way to really tell until we know just what we in fact DID gain. But I would lean currently toward no. Im for torture, in some cases, but the naked doggie dancing thing was uncalled for. Waterboarding, well hey I dunno if it works and saves lives, and doesnt actually lead to the death of the individual then is it worth the gain if it saves lives? Im honestly still sorting out my notions on W's international policy, but there is definitely no doubt that he was a complete tool domestically. As a republican he by proxy must stand for reduced spending, and he vetoed how many spending bills? If memory serves he never even vetoed 1 bill from the republican congress!

With all that said though, we have entered a new era, a new administration, and the days of blaming W have got to come to an end, and the current administration has got to start taking responsibility. Hell Reagan had Carters debacle turned around in the amount of time Obama's been in office.

A side note, it seems Obama's approval rating does better when he stays relatively silent.
there is truth in what you say. i just think that on some level we need to be honest about the reasons people oppose Obama. I have my reasons why ive become disallusioned. That being said, id rather cut my arm off than vote republican. not now, not ever. The Party of No, is also the Party of No Muslims and im not self hating enough to vote for my own subjugation.

W had a good heart. He was just surrounded by absolutely EVIL people who he trusted. History will vindicate him personally, but the stains will remain on his administration as a whole.

vikesfankevin1986
Posts: 1040
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:02 pm
Car: 1995 300ZX TT

Post

OMG too much reading...People need to get the f*** over it. It's war...s*** happens...A lot of people in the military die from accidents, car accidents, suicide, ect. It's not fair but its a part of life. His family needed to shut the f*** up and stop worrying about it. Yes he died...You know why? Because he was fighting a f*** war. I have 2 people in my unit commit suicide. They ruled them accidents so the family would feel better. They even gave them the life ensurance policy that is supposed to not be recieved for a suicide. But you know what? it made the family feel better.
I knew someone that got his head sliced off in a training accident. I was in the honor guard and did funerals for fallen troops. I have been the guy who re-ices the bodies, spends the night with them, and then puts them on the plane. You know what the difference is between a family that lost a loved one in the military from a car accident or from combat? Nothing. The families still cry. The troop still gets full military honors. But let me ask you this...Would you rather believe your loved one in the military died in battle or over some stupid accident? Personally I would rather they believed I died serving my country in battle.
Drop this story and get over it people.

User avatar
stebo0728
Posts: 2810
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:43 pm
Car: 1993 300ZX, White, T-Top
Contact:

Post

heliochrome85 wrote:
stebo0728 wrote: Ive shifted considerably on this stuff. When the "shock and awe" started I was like YAH GO GET 'EM! But the lens of history has begun so show some of the dirty side of this thing. I honestly do believe W meant well, and operated on some pretty botchy information, but then as the current leader that is really not a good defense. I do think that we will soon begin to unravel alot of things that were averted that we are currently not privy to, but time will tell. Should our liberties have been ignored for such gains? Well theres no way to really tell until we know just what we in fact DID gain. But I would lean currently toward no. Im for torture, in some cases, but the naked doggie dancing thing was uncalled for. Waterboarding, well hey I dunno if it works and saves lives, and doesnt actually lead to the death of the individual then is it worth the gain if it saves lives? Im honestly still sorting out my notions on W's international policy, but there is definitely no doubt that he was a complete tool domestically. As a republican he by proxy must stand for reduced spending, and he vetoed how many spending bills? If memory serves he never even vetoed 1 bill from the republican congress!

With all that said though, we have entered a new era, a new administration, and the days of blaming W have got to come to an end, and the current administration has got to start taking responsibility. Hell Reagan had Carters debacle turned around in the amount of time Obama's been in office.

A side note, it seems Obama's approval rating does better when he stays relatively silent.
there is truth in what you say. i just think that on some level we need to be honest about the reasons people oppose Obama. I have my reasons why ive become disallusioned. That being said, id rather cut my arm off than vote republican. not now, not ever. The Party of No, is also the Party of No Muslims and im not self hating enough to vote for my own subjugation.

W had a good heart. He was just surrounded by absolutely EVIL people who he trusted. History will vindicate him personally, but the stains will remain on his administration as a whole.

The way Ive looked at it lately, is like a relay race. W was already running towards "progressivism" at at a staggering pace, but then as he reached the end of his lap, he passed the baton on the someone who is even faster, in better shape, and is running toward the "progressivism" goal at ludicrous speed (as light speed is not fast enough)

User avatar
Cold_Zero
Posts: 6714
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 4:15 pm
Car: 2003 Nissan Altima SE 3.5
2005 Nissan Pathfinder

Post

heliochrome85 wrote:its phenominal how much people have forgotten how the Bush administration manipulated them to get this war off the ground. With Greg sending family abroad to do this dirty work, and with countless friends having served, it sickens me that we are still finding evidence of how the Neocons screwed over this country, militarily, financially, and economically, in order to pursue their agenda. And we were hapless passsengers on what was clearly a suicide mission to "fix" a country that 10 thousand years of civilzation and countless invasions could not fix.
This is news? We have known about the US Army coverup for YEARS. I would also point out that the guy that shuffled the paper work on the cover-up was Obama's pick to head up the war in Afghanistan, McChrystal. But what I really wanted to point out is that Tillman was killed in Afghanistan. And last time I checked there was no manipulation to get that war off the ground. It was simple, give up Osama bin Laden or face the consequence. Mohammed Omar and the Taliban refused to give him up and we invaded.
If you feel like this mission was/is a suicide mission, then I really feel sorry for you T. I really think we put this effort at risk by invading Iraq. We probably could have defeated the Taliban and restored order, had we not invaded Iraq. But hey, it appears that things are going better in Iraq and we have almost pulled out of the country. I will say, the best thing Obama did was to put Petraeus in command of the war effort in Afghanistan. Want to win the war? Put a Rakkasan (187 PIR) in charge!

User avatar
Cold_Zero
Posts: 6714
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 4:15 pm
Car: 2003 Nissan Altima SE 3.5
2005 Nissan Pathfinder

Post

vikesfankevin1986 wrote:OMG too much reading...People need to get the f*** over it. It's war...s*** happens...A lot of people in the military die from accidents, car accidents, suicide, ect. It's not fair but its a part of life. His family needed to shut the f*** up and stop worrying about it. Yes he died...You know why? Because he was fighting a f**king war. I have 2 people in my unit commit suicide. They ruled them accidents so the family would feel better. They even gave them the life ensurance policy that is supposed to not be recieved for a suicide. But you know what? it made the family feel better.
I knew someone that got his head sliced off in a training accident. I was in the honor guard and did funerals for fallen troops. I have been the guy who re-ices the bodies, spends the night with them, and then puts them on the plane. You know what the difference is between a family that lost a loved one in the military from a car accident or from combat? Nothing. The families still cry. The troop still gets full military honors. But let me ask you this...Would you rather believe your loved one in the military died in battle or over some stupid accident? Personally I would rather they believed I died serving my country in battle.
Drop this story and get over it people.
Need a like button.

User avatar
heliochrome85
Posts: 3048
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:18 pm
Car: 2006 G35 Sport Coupe Athens Blue/Slate with Sport and Premium Packages--SOLD

Post

Cold_Zero wrote:
heliochrome85 wrote:its phenominal how much people have forgotten how the Bush administration manipulated them to get this war off the ground. With Greg sending family abroad to do this dirty work, and with countless friends having served, it sickens me that we are still finding evidence of how the Neocons screwed over this country, militarily, financially, and economically, in order to pursue their agenda. And we were hapless passsengers on what was clearly a suicide mission to "fix" a country that 10 thousand years of civilzation and countless invasions could not fix.
This is news? We have known about the US Army coverup for YEARS. I would also point out that the guy that shuffled the paper work on the cover-up was Obama's pick to head up the war in Afghanistan, McChrystal. But what I really wanted to point out is that Tillman was killed in Afghanistan. And last time I checked there was no manipulation to get that war off the ground. It was simple, give up Osama bin Laden or face the consequence. Mohammed Omar and the Taliban refused to give him up and we invaded.
If you feel like this mission was/is a suicide mission, then I really feel sorry for you T. I really think we put this effort at risk by invading Iraq. We probably could have defeated the Taliban and restored order, had we not invaded Iraq. But hey, it appears that things are going better in Iraq and we have almost pulled out of the country. I will say, the best thing Obama did was to put Petraeus in command of the war effort in Afghanistan. Want to win the war? Put a Rakkasan (187 PIR) in charge!
i have to say, i kinda do think that afghanistan was a suicide mission. there are countries that we simply are not able to tame. given the topography of the land, the heartiness of the people, and the crazy interfaction fighting, its no wonder we were unable to make a serious dent in the situation. im sorry if ive disappointed you, but there is a limit to military might. some wars are just unwinnable. iraq didnt help the sitation, because it 1.) removed resources from afghanistan, and 2.) muddied the logic behind going to war to begin with.

agreed on Petreus.

although we might have known about pat tillmans cover up, i think this brings to light how deep the lie was, and to what lenghts the brass tried to manipulate the facts.

User avatar
IBCoupe
Posts: 7534
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 11:51 am
Car: '08 Nissan Altima Coupe 3.5SE
'19 Infiniti QX50 FWD
'17 BMW 330e iPerformance
Location: Orange County, CA

Post

vikesfankevin1986 wrote:A lot of people in the military die from accidents, car accidents, suicide, ect. It's not fair but its a part of life. His family needed to shut the f*** up and stop worrying about it.
The implication being, Vikes, that when your last words are allegedly "I'm Pat f*cking Tillman! I'm Pat f*cking Tillman!" it might just be that there was no accident.

User avatar
Cold_Zero
Posts: 6714
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 4:15 pm
Car: 2003 Nissan Altima SE 3.5
2005 Nissan Pathfinder

Post

T you are certainly allowed your opinion and it won't be the first or last time you will disappointment someone. Seems like a constant in my life with me disappointmenting people. Anyway, let's give the General a year or so to start to turn things around before we start writing off Afghanistan. I would also like to see General Petraeus get a 5th star.

User avatar
heliochrome85
Posts: 3048
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:18 pm
Car: 2006 G35 Sport Coupe Athens Blue/Slate with Sport and Premium Packages--SOLD

Post

Cold_Zero wrote:T you are certainly allowed your opinion and it won't be the first or last time you will disappointment someone. Seems like a constant in my life with me disappointmenting people. Anyway, let's give the General a year or so to start to turn things around before we start writing off Afghanistan. I would also like to see General Petraeus get a 5th star.

we havent awarded a general a 5th star in several decades. id like to see it back too.

vikesfankevin1986
Posts: 1040
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:02 pm
Car: 1995 300ZX TT

Post

IBCoupe wrote:
vikesfankevin1986 wrote:A lot of people in the military die from accidents, car accidents, suicide, ect. It's not fair but its a part of life. His family needed to shut the f*** up and stop worrying about it.
The implication being, Vikes, that when your last words are allegedly "I'm Pat f*cking Tillman! I'm Pat f*cking Tillman!" it might just be that there was no accident.
To be fair I have not heard everything about the case. If they think he was murdered, thta is one thing. I heard it was friendly fire. Friendly fire does happen. I'm not saying something fishy didn't go on, but when you are in a war it doesn't help to kill one of your own unless he is putting your life at risk. Even then it should not be left to you.
I am just tired of hear about this. Bottom line is we had an American that was killed. Nothing good comes out of it. I think they should try and make his family feel as much comfort as possible. If he was murdered, then the person should be held accountable.

War does mess you up in the head. People ask me how I can see bodies or re-ice bodies or present flags to crying wives and mothers. Most people in my unit couldn't handle it but it needed to be done. You can smell burnt flesh and you can tell when someone is missing a head. The worst is when you actually know who it is. A chopper went down and they showed the faces of the men that died...a couple days later they came though my base. PTSD and depression are a very normal thing.
To be honest, I am just disgusted that they keep dragging this Tillman thing out...


Return to “Politics Etc.”