The start of an interesting few months?

[audtatious]

So, the 9/11 First Responders bill does not get the votes needed to pass and NY Democrat Rep Anthony Weiner tears up the Republicans for being the party of "NO".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4zwCMf8dsc

The 9/11 First Responders bill is designed to help first responders with medical issues that they have due to 9/11. It's a horrible thing for the GOP to be against this bill and they should be ashamed of themselves.

But...is that the whole story?

The bill itself has been worked on for over 5 years as a bipartisan effort. As things came near a vote there were issues with PAYGO and issues with wording that the GOP would want added as an amendment to keep the bill from including healthcare for illegals and such. If the bill came up for a straight majority vote (218 votes to pass) then it would have been open to such amendments so the Dems changed it to a 2/3 majority vote which means the GOP would not have the opportunity to add amendments. The bill failed with only 255 votes (12 Republican votes), which is less than a 2/3 majority. Weiner immediately comes to the floor and throws the GOP "under the bus" when it seems the Dems themselves scuttled the bill as they didn't want to allow the GOP to make any amendments to it.

Politics is going to be like a Soap Opera for the next few months until the next round of voting is over. We should tape CSPAN and call it "As the Stomach Churns"

[audtatious]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews

Next bill to show GOP is the party of NO?

[IBCoupe]

What relevance did the amendments have? "Yeah, we'll legislate world peace, but only if you promise that turtles can't have candy."

It was a bill to pay 9/11 workers, and they wanted to add an immigration measure to it, and when they didn't get it, they voted against the bill? And this somehow makes them less wrong?

[AZhitman]

Perception is the problem here, and it's damaging, unfair, and POLITICS as USUAL.

NOTHING else should have been added to the bill. THAT'S the problem. NOW, the left can sit on their high horses and scream, "Republicans hate firemen and police officers and EMT's and want them to die!" and the ignorant populace ONLY gets that part of the story.

BOTH factions are to blame here.

[audtatious]

What relevance did the amendments have? "Yeah, we'll legislate world peace, but only if you promise that turtles can't have candy."

It was a bill to pay 9/11 workers, and they wanted to add an immigration measure to it, and when they didn't get it, they voted against the bill? And this somehow makes them less wrong?

Uhhh.....if the bill was not changed by the Dems to require a 2/3rd majority it would have passed. The Dems could have denied any Amendment change based on having 255 votes in the House today and only needing 218 to pass it.

Yep, GOP fault. All of it. Those uncaring bastards.....

[n00b240]

What it really was, was a colossal waste of time. Bottom line? Nothing should have been added to the bill.

issues with wording that the GOP would want added as an amendment to keep the bill from including healthcare for illegals and such.

I do this every day in the emergency room right now?

[audtatious]

What it really was, was a colossal waste of time. Bottom line? Nothing should have been added to the bill.

It's been in Dem hands for 5 years, blame them for not trying to pass it earlier. Did the GOP have the power to force an amendment into the bill?

issues with wording that the GOP would want added as an amendment to keep the bill from including healthcare for illegals and such.

I do this every day in the emergency room right now?

do what in the ER?

You and IB are right. I really don't understand why Obummer simply does not wave his hand and get rid of the GOP all together. Single party rule is such a better establishment to govern.

[n00b240]

do what in the ER?

Treat illegals for free. This happens in our healthcare system right now. The GOP worrying about some wording of the bill to prevent healthcare for illegals is just crap. This already happens, and will continue to happen.

You and IB are right. I really don't understand why Obummer simply does not wave his hand and get rid of the GOP all together. Single party rule is such a better establishment to govern.

For real, Prez Bush did it, I dont understand why Prez Obama doesnt do it. The guy is all about this bipartisan crap

[stebo0728]

You and IB are right. I really don't understand why Obummer simply does not wave his hand and get rid of the GOP all together. Single party rule is such a better establishment to govern.

Why have a party at all, how bout just people with idea, goals, and EARS to listen to their constituents?

[audtatious]

do what in the ER?

Treat illegals for free. This happens in our healthcare system right now. The GOP worrying about some wording of the bill to prevent healthcare for illegals is just crap. This already happens, and will continue to happen.

Threw me for a loop, now I understand what you meant

Criminals get better treatment than I do it seems......and free

For real, Prez Bush did it, I dont understand why Prez Obama doesnt do it. The guy is all about this bipartisan crap

Bush was not the brightest bulb in the pack for sure. Things were not great with him but once the Dems took over Congress things went downhill quick.

[audtatious]

Why have a party at all, how bout just people with idea, goals, and EARS to listen to their constituents?

Because politicians seem to like listening with their wallet more.

[IBCoupe]

Uhhh.....if the bill was not changed by the Dems to require a 2/3rd majority it would have passed. The Dems could have denied any Amendment change based on having 255 votes in the House today and only needing 218 to pass it.

Yep, GOP fault. All of it. Those uncaring bastards.....

What was the bill in front of them? And how did they vote? Sure, if there's something pertinent you think that should be in there, that's a reasonable justification. But that something completely irrelevant to the purpose of the bill isn't in there? Don't be surprised or offended when you're rightly villified.

Yeah, the Democrats didn't have to make it a two-thirds vote, but that didn't change what Republicans were voting for, did it? There are a lot of things that Democrats do that Republicans can turn into great PR... this wasn't one.

[audtatious]

From what I can tell they didn't want illegals to have access to the funding. I think that in general is relevant to the bill. What sux is I can't find specifics to what the GOP wanted. I see references to PAYGO, that funding through 2035 (or whatever) was extreme, adding the stipulation that illegals are exempt, that the GOP didn't want some offshore loophole closed, etc etc.....but I don't see the specifics listed anywhere of what the real issue is nor any real reason why the Dems would be stupid enough to change it to a 2/3 knowing they had the votes for a simple majority.

I think both acted stupidly....

AND....I'm wondering what the next Soap Opera moment is going to be from either side.

[vikesfankevin1986]

Why have a party at all, how bout just people with idea, goals, and EARS to listen to their constituents?

Because people are too stupid to vote in people like that. People will vote based on one issue...
I'm going to vote for the black guy.
I'm going to vote for the person against killing babies.
I'm going to vote for the guy that will let me carry a gun.
I'm going to vote for the person that lowers taxes.
I'm going to vote for the Democrate.
ect...
It doesn't matter if the economy is in the garbage and I'm living in a box, or that we are at war and that our country is going to s***...just so there aren't babies being killed. I bet if Hitler promised no baby kittens would be killed if he was elected, women would vote for him...

This is why I don't like our government. I believe you need to have a few smart people, that know how to run a country in charge. Why should someone with no idea of how anything works get the right to vote? Honestly I don't think I know enough about the issues to make a good vote, so I don't. I have never voted.
People vote for the person who lowers taxes but then they complain when schools cut programs to save money and roads are going to hell. They don't understand where the money to do things actually comes from...and that's taking into consideration that the politician isn't lying in the first place (very unlikely...that's how they make their money, they will say anything to have a job.)

Everyone is so big on rights and freedom but honestly I think there are a lot of people that don't deserve the right to vote. How would you feel if I went into you job and got to vote about things related to you job, such as pay, number of employees, how things run, ect...you would be pretty pissed off because I DON'T KNOW THE FIRST THING ABOUT YOUR JOB. So why should I have the right? Why should I have the freedom to vote over something I know nothing about?

[stebo0728]

Why have a party at all, how bout just people with idea, goals, and EARS to listen to their constituents?

Because people are too stupid to vote in people like that. People will vote based on one issue...
I'm going to vote for the black guy.
I'm going to vote for the person against killing babies.
I'm going to vote for the guy that will let me carry a gun.
I'm going to vote for the person that lowers taxes.
I'm going to vote for the Democrate.
ect...

Because we have allowed ourselves to become conditioned to respond this way politically.

[vikesfankevin1986]

You answered your own question

[stebo0728]

Yes I did, I are smarts.

But then I already knew the answer, I was merely putting it out there for discussion, and I do have hopes, as low as they may be, that we still have hope to turn things around and get back to a political system modeled more closely around the example our founding fathers gave us.

[IBCoupe]

I sympathize with your desires, Stebo, and for the most part I share them.

But political parties aren't all bad. They conveniently organize us into groups of people who mostly agree on most things. They also create an opportunity for anyone, in theory, with good ideas to have an avenue to get into political office. I mean that in the way that, without them, we'd have only the richest, most self-interested people getting into office.

Money buys elections. If you can pool your money with like-minded people, maybe your ideas can have enough money to do so.

[vikesfankevin1986]

Yes I did, I are smarts.

But then I already knew the answer, I was merely putting it out there for discussion, and I do have hopes, as low as they may be, that we still have hope to turn things around and get back to a political system modeled more closely around the example our founding fathers gave us.

Well good. I like discussion, as you have probably noticed. I have a lot of opinions and I love to talk. My wife really knows nothing about what I like, except religion (even though our views are very different,) and most of my friends are too stupid to keep up. What I'm saying is I have no one to talk to about these things. There used to be a 17 year old girl that I rode the bus with that loved the same things I did and I have never seen someone that age know so much about politics, let alone a girl. She started to lose me on things...But yea when I started spending time with her my wife got upset and when she started acting "weird" I had to end that...

[stebo0728]

I see your point, and those warm fuzzy feelings of togetherness is how the how partisan system got kicked off, but overtime the constituency has shifted from the people to the party. Theres a party line that you have to tow in order to receive the backing of the party, even if you dont happen to consider abortion a front line issue, you still have to proclaim it so or you are on your own. You may not feel like letting the government take control of every aspect of our life, but if you dont, good luck getting on a democrat ticket. But thats life, thats the law of unintended consequences. Things get done, for what appears to be good reason, only to drudge up unforseen side effects, that sometime outweight the positive over time. Take the filibuster. It got watered down long ago, in the interest of getting civil rights law passed. Sure civil rights was pretty important, but did i really warrant dropping the cloture vote margin? And on that same note, both parties when encountered with resistance, have threatened to just end the filibuster. That would be a major cluster f*ck of an idea. Fortunately its just scuttle-but at the moment.

[IBCoupe]

Well, thank goodness for the remnants of the Gang of 14 that are still in the Senate.

[ADDirishboy]

NOTHING else should have been added to the bill. THAT'S the problem.

Exactly. I don't understand why this is taking so damn long. People who were involved in the actual attacks of 9/11, and the clean-up afterward are starting to get sick. People are getting cancer they shouldn't be getting for their age/health. Throw all the s*** politics out of this for once and just vote in a damn bill that will help these men and women who gave their lives and health to pull out a few survivors.

I hate politicians so much. Quit making this about yourself and trying to further your own insignificant agenda and just do the right thing for once.