The reality of impending economic collapse

[themadscientist]

Mr Bernanke, please come to the office. The Principle needs to speak with you.



http://money.cnn.com/2010/11/12/news/ec ... /index.htm

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Ben Bernanke has had his hands full since his first day on the job as Federal Reserve chairman nearly five years ago. It's about to get even tougher.

His harshest critic on Capitol Hill, Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, is about to become one of his overseers.

[jamesgios99]

Mr Bernanke, please come to the office. The Principle needs to speak with you.

I reckon you intended to expound the vocable, "principal". Bethink oneselves of the saying - the principal is your pal, hence the "pal" cessation. Further, principal is not a proper noun in your sentence, thus capitalization is not appropriate.

[themadscientist]

You are kind of an abrasively snarky smartypants, are'nt you?

I think we are going to get along just fine.

[jamesgios99]

You are kind of an abrasively snarky smartypants, are'nt you?

How did you figure me out so quickly?



Anyways, my apologies for bringing your thread off-topic. Carry on!

[USMCgetsome]

This has turned into a genius think tank! I effin love the ideas here! Fact of the matter
is the govt is lying every step of the way and still spending like were not having prOblems. Reality is everyone is gonna eat a lil bit of shiz for the next few years wether it be job loss or even loosing your govt funded scholarships for college. I'm glad that at least were acknowledging it and soon hopefully the rest of the hard working American will wake up and protest against some of these sorry candy a** govt officials out of their seat. I also agree about the bail out it should have never happened!!!!!! F U!!!!!!!!

[Chaotic_Warlord]

My GF's mom and her boss are both on this whole "the economy is going to fail soon" BS, so much so that they are stockpiling supplies, like water isn't going to be there and cat food will be too expensive to buy. Seriously, the economy may be in the toilet, but we stand a better chance of the world flat out ending before the whole worlds economy tanks to the put of having to use gold or silver to buy groceries.

Oddly enough though, Generally speaking (and historically proven) times of war are usually extremely prosperous times economically (WWII straight up pulled us out of the Depression), so why is it different this time around?

[themadscientist]

Are you suggesting that the "wars" in Iraq and Afshanistan are going to generate jobs that will drag our economy out of the doldrums? Seriously?

They are part of the problem. Think of how much money has been spent on those two actions.

As I said, but I guess nobody reads, I don't think gold will become a medium of daily exchange. The goldbugs shun me for this sentiment, but the fact is, very few people own gold and would not easily enter into its use as a medium. I believe gold is a wealth storage vehicle like many see their stocks and bank accounts.

Paper and electronic money will likely still exist and be traded back and forth, but at a seriously depressed and volotile value. I would use Venezuela's revaluing of their currency as an example of a more likely scenario than me buying gas with a silver coin.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1012930820100110

Jan 10 (Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on Sunday ordered soldiers to seek out businesses raising prices after a sharp devaluation of the bolivar currency last week, saying his government will not tolerate price speculation.

[Jesda]

John Keynes would not be happy with this thread

His tears give me joy.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

Are you suggesting that the "wars" in Iraq and Afshanistan are going to generate jobs that will drag our economy out of the doldrums? Seriously?

They are part of the problem. Think of how much money has been spent on those two actions.

All told, taxes provided about $136.8 billion of the war's total cost of $304 billion (Kennedy, 625). To cover the other $167.2 billion, the Treasury Department also expanded its bond program, creating the famous "war bonds" hawked by celebrities and purchased in vast numbers and enormous values by Americans. The first war bond was purchased by President Roosevelt on May 1, 1941 ("Introduction to Savings Bonds"). Though the bonds returned only 2.9 percent annual interest after a 10-year maturity, they nonetheless served as a valuable source of revenue for the federal government and an extremely important investment for many Americans. Bonds served as a way for citizens to make an economic contribution to the war effort, but because interest on them accumulated slower than consumer prices rose, they could not completely preserve income which could not be readily spent during the war. By the time war-bond sales ended in 1946, 85 million Americans had purchased more than $185 billion worth of the securities, often through automatic deductions from their paychecks ("Brief History of World War Two Advertising Campaigns: War Loans and Bonds"). Commercial institutions like banks also bought billions of dollars of bonds and other treasury paper, holding more than $24 billion at the war's end (Kennedy, 626).

Not only should their be an increase in jobs, though with the amount of out sourcing I highly doubt it, but If the government would have created high yield war bonds early into the conflict I don't think the amount of criticism for it would be so high since the biggest anti-war argument is the cost of it. War isn't cheap, but somehow it manages to increase the economic stability of a country. Also keep in mind that the bulk of the jobs created during WWII and the Great Depression were created by the government (construction, research, etc).

If the fed really wanted to help resolve the unemployment rate they should hire several thousands to repave and redevelop cities and roads just like they did in the late 1930's to early 1940's. But hey hard labor is beneath most American's, or so we like to project.

[themadscientist]

Small problem with your theory. The situation after WWII is in no way anything like now.

1. America was a manufacturing powerhouse that produced arguably the finest goods in the world. Now, we make very little anymore and what we make is mostly crap.

2. Europe was razed to the ground and could not produce anything domestically much less represent a threat to American marketplace domination as the only country untouched by the war. Now, American manufacturing is mostly shut down and currently China has market saturation and Europe produces comparable and arguably superior goods.

3. Americans of that time were financially sound. They had savings, they budgeted, they did not live beyond their means. Now, people for the most part are effectively debt slaves. They have bought into the paradigm that they must aquire a myriad of consumer goods regardless of the financial ramifications of their reckless spending.

4. Americans of the day were highly educated, moral, and had a strong sense of community. They were proud and hardworking. Now, the average American is a drooling idiot who lags behind many countries in overall education and skill. We are at each other's throats, crime is through the roof and an etire demographic that spans all races and gender has come to the conclusion that the world owes them a living and that it is the responsibility of their fellow Americans to foot the bill for their useless lives.

5. The wars were over. Millions of Americans returned victorious from what was felt to be a righteous conflict with a clearly defined enemy, a clear objective and a definitive closure. Now we take hip shots at moving goals and defining principles of exactly who the enemy is, where they are and how to beat them is written in pencil to facilitate the rapid changes needed. We are mired in this, there is no end in sight, the continuation serves the purposes of both our enemies and the powers that be within our own country. With the demise of the red menace, the elites needed a new boogeyman to scare us into compliance and provide an avenue for us to exhaust ourselves while they steal the store.

I am not a keynsian, but I think had the stimulus money gone straight to actual shovel ready projects instead of to evil bankers we could have worked our way out of this. I do believe fiscal policy can potentially create positive conditions for growth, but that opportunity has passed. We are on track for a serious upheaval and it was avoidable.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

Small problem with your theory. The situation after WWII is in no way anything like now.

1. America was a manufacturing powerhouse that produced arguably the finest goods in the world. Now, we make very little anymore and what we make is mostly crap.

2. Europe was razed to the ground and could not produce anything domestically much less represent a threat to American marketplace domination as the only country untouched by the war. Now, American manufacturing is mostly shut down and currently China has market saturation and Europe produces comparable and arguably superior goods.

3. Americans of that time were financially sound. They had savings, they budgeted, they did not live beyond their means. Now, people for the most part are effectively debt slaves. They have bought into the paradigm that they must aquire a myriad of consumer goods regardless of the financial ramifications of their reckless spending.

4. Americans of the day were highly educated, moral, and had a strong sense of community. They were proud and hardworking. Now, the average American is a drooling idiot who lags behind many countries in overall education and skill. We are at each other's throats, crime is through the roof and an etire demographic that spans all races and gender has come to the conclusion that the world owes them a living and that it is the responsibility of their fellow Americans to foot the bill for their useless lives.

5. The wars were over. Millions of Americans returned victorious from what was felt to be a righteous conflict with a clearly defined enemy, a clear objective and a definitive closure. Now we take hip shots at moving goals and defining principles of exactly who the enemy is, where they are and how to beat them is written in pencil to facilitate the rapid changes needed. We are mired in this, there is no end in sight, the continuation serves the purposes of both our enemies and the powers that be within our own country. With the demise of the red menace, the elites needed a new boogeyman to scare us into compliance and provide an avenue for us to exhaust ourselves while they steal the store.

I am not a keynsian, but I think had the stimulus money gone straight to actual shovel ready projects instead of to evil bankers we could have worked our way out of this. I do believe fiscal policy can potentially create positive conditions for growth, but that opportunity has passed. We are on track for a serious upheaval and it was avoidable.

All valid and true points, but I still think that if the US Government were to create a war bonds program, invest into a revitalization program for our cities and roads, and instituted harder edged guidelines (read as black or white, no grey area allowed) for both education and crime then we as a country can dig ourselves out of this fiscal hole. I also believe that if we could unpussify ourselves, effectively ban outsourcing and close our borders like every other country in the world then we as a nation would begin to heal. Our forefathers have got to be spinning in their graves. However none of this will happen because of a little thing called Reaganomics and the explosive number of lobbyists and pork barrel spending.

I do LOVE your 4th point though, truer words have never been said. We are a country of fat, lazy, celebrity loving p******. We can't discipline our kids, we don't have many of the same freedoms that we used to. Groups like the ACLU, NAACP, and all these other civil rights groups have absolutely ruined our country. They've stripped the police, the government, and parents of the single greatest weapon against crime, that being physical punishment. Sure we have grown culturally, but what;s culture without morality? Kids can do whatever they want and never really learn the difference of right and wrong, crimes has exploded exponentially and getting worse, and our troops are dying because they are too soft. What happened to lighting up your kids a** if they talked back to you or did something wrong, oh that's right you go to jail for that, this in turn has made kids soft and doughy and our NCO's are powerless, long gone are the days of the Brown Boot Army where you got your a** kicked if you screwed up. If we could have the technology and culture that we have now with the education level, morality, and crime rate our parents and grand parents had growing up this would be THE GREATEST country on the freakin' planet.

As far as us not producing or manufacturing anything of value, if the government would would ban outsourcing, tax loopholes, increase the amount of Quality and Inspections and bring those jobs back to America we could easily turn this around. I may be 34 but I'm old school.

[Jesda]

War bonds wouldnt work. The money raised by Americans purchasing bonds would pale in comparison to what's already being spent. Its rather unfortunate.

[themadscientist]

Isolationism has been historically proven not to grow an economy. Banning outsourcing is not the answer, either. making it unprofitable for our industries to do so would be. The fat cats are going to have to accept the paradigm of less profits and operating with domestic labor more. For their parts, unions are going to need to pull their fangs out of businesses' necks and get to work and realize if you are doing repetetive grunt labor you don't get paid a fat grip of cash and get to sit on your a** at full wages.

I think of the triumverate of economic interests: government, business, and labor, business can adjust quicker than the others. Government is painfully slow, but like pushing a heavy object, getting it to move initially is the hardest part and as you build momenum it takes less effort. People, that is the group that is hardest to change because for the most part, the will to change must come from within and people are lazy and whiney and feel entitled to a successful life with little to no effort on their part. The process of change begins here as well because it is this group that incites change in the other two.

[Jesda]

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/are-u-s- ... mployment/

[themadscientist]

This suprizing to me. I might have to retract my previous statement.

To assume in an economic crash WalMart is going to start denominating thighmasters and sam's cola in grams of gold is dumb; it ain't going to happen.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011 ... -bills.php

Legislators in at least ten states have introduced bills in the past few years to allow state commerce to be conducted with gold and silver.

[liquid_cool]

I dont put any faith in Keynsian theory economics at all...you cannot spend your way to fiscal responcibility with no actual moneys...its a foolish and dangerous game to play...your in a credit bubble so your going to issue yourself more credit to spend your way out of a bubble?...makes no sence to me....what should have happend was to let the actual markets correct them selves without interference from the federal government...the junk assest's that were baild out are still junk!..we did nothing to stave off the later failure of any of them....now...if you compare the current administrations political model with the model used by Hugo Chavez in venesuela..you will notic startling discovery's of how simmilar they really are...if we can correct the policy's made by this administration there is a possiblility to have the natural corection in the market and a reversal of economic status throut the markets...as far as employment goes....close the border..period!...i work for a underground utility company as a foreman/mngr....90% of the employee's are illeagal's with damn good papers...90 % is a conservative estamate too...they make on average $15 to $23 an hour...tell me thats not a wage an american citizen would not like to have rite now...if we curb the illeagal populous, it will expand the job market in many sectors and raise the wages due to demand in those fields...a sort of market correction of its own...thats my 2 cents.

[themadscientist]

Wow, again I find myself on the coservative side of the gold standard coin. Virginia stepping up again with redefining legislation!


http://www.zerohedge.com/article/virgin ... own-consid

Virginia Creates Subcommittee To Study Monetary Alternatives In Case Of Terminal Fed "Breakdown", Considers Gold As Option

The resolution
http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604 ... +HJ557+pdf

[liquid_cool]

might have to move to VA!..but will they allow my assult rifles

[Eikon]

This is a topic I've been considering myself of late.

I'm not quite as worried about this as TMS, but I'm not blind either.. I can see the danger that may be looming if things don't turn around.

My fear revolves around the availability and corresponding price of oil. If oil remains available and affordable, our economy will rebound and we'll work out the huge budget deficit and high unemployment and all the problems with our banking industries and trade deficits, etc... My fear though is what will happen when the middle east starts to run out of oil. What happens when crude goes from $90 a barrel to $400 a barrel? What happens to the price of gasoline... Does go up to $12 a gallon or more? What happens if it hits $20 a gallon? We tend to think of the price of oil impacting only our cost to fill our car's gas tanks. But think of everything else it impacts.. Plastics, tires, paints, pesticides, and thousands of other products that require oil as an ingredient. Now take it a step further and think of the products that require oil to be transported.. damn near everything. So what happens when gas hits $12 a gallon. Think of the cost of food.. It takes oil to package, provide, and transport the seeds, oil to run the tractors to til the ground, oil to run the tractors to seed, oil to make the pesticide, to transport the pesticide, oil to apply the pesticide, oil to make the fertilizer, oil to transport the fertilizer, oil to apply the fertilizer, oil to harvest the crops, oil to transport the crops, oil to refine the crops into usable forms, oil to power the bakeries that turn the crops into food, oil to package the food, oil to transport the food to warehouses, oil to transport the food to your supermarket, oil to get you to the supermarket to buy the food, etc.. So what happens to the price of food when the price of oil jumps up 400% or more? What happens to the price of every other consumer good? What percentage of our income now goes to just buying food and personal goods to sustain our lives? What is left over to buy electronics, furniture and other goods? What happens to those companies?... I could keep going, but I think you can start to see the vicious cycle.


This may sounds stupid, but I think the best thing for our world right now would be a moderate increase in the price of oil. I say MODERATE.. it needs to be a somewhat controlled increase. Let's say $180 a barrel for crude, which turns into $5 to $6 a gallon at the pump in the US. Why you ask???
Because that would be enough to spur us to do something about the problem before it become a crisis. We must figure out how to create energy more efficiently. Whather it be hydrogen fuel cells, better versions of solar or wind power, nuclear fusion power, or some new form of power creation that we have yet to invent... We must figure it out asap. The longer fuel stays cheap, the closer we get to a bad future.
The other benefit of higher fuel costs is that it bring manufacturing jobs back home. The reason we export manufacturing jobs to China and other nations is due to the lower costs of labor. The overall savings in labor in those nations creates a larger monetary benefit than the costs of transport and time to market create in monetary harm. If the cost of fuel increases, it now becomes much more expensive to transport the products back to the US and at some point makes it no longer price effective to have the manufacturing overseas...

I don't really know where that cutoff is.. but I do know that we started to see it happen back in 07 when gas was $4+ a gallon.


Anyhow... done ranting for now.

[Encryptshun]

Eikon, what you are saying should be true in a perfect world. However, what I believe will happen is that oil producers will simply slash production if we slash demand. They will produce and sell to China and other new oil-dependent nations while starving our market and causing prices to soar. At the end of the day, we're not the global market, and they are able to adjust production far more quickly than we are able to adjust consumption, so they win.

[Amays U G37S]

I'm on the other side of gold. I think it will be of much value as it always has been. Our dollar will soon be worth nothing comparied to other countries.

And you ask yourself, why did I live in this century? Couldn't I of lived in the future, or the past. Perferabbly in my mind, the past would of been much better. Especially in unpopulated areas. Once this all pans out, and we are coming into of age, gas will soon rise, and hurt us even more, only making gas producing countries richer. We also have no clue how much gas they have, and once it does run out, what are we going to do then? Our pipeline is only 15% of our consumption. We rely so much on importing goods because of out sourcing, only because of the greed in this county. What do you think these big business owners are doing? "I'm not taking down my company out of another country, I make to much, I'm not concerned with the welfare of this country, only myself, etc.."

Dude there would be a party all over the USA (mylie cyrus pun intended)if gas was 1.00 a gallon. Can you imagine how much we would spend, or how fast the economy would rebound.

And what are we going to run our cars on? Will everyone have to buy an electric car soon? I guess with part of the antartic melting we'll have enough energy to pump those lights!

Take for instance this to my above comment. The government regulating internet usage based on the sole purpose internet gatekeepers are now getting to rich and powerful. Wal-mart, regulate that business. This is the only way we will get more production facilities for jobs in America, is to only depend on ourselves. We don't need 45 gallon gas tanks if we just fly everywhere, and walk to work, or use public transportation.China is booming because it is a communist country. Why, because those people use public transportation.

If we were communist with higher standards, and much like european countries, with capital punishment laws, this country would turn around. I don't care about working in a rice field all day to come back to a nicer house because the government allows for these things.

We really need a global economy, but religion doesn't help anyone get along. Get over that and be human beings. You got 1 life, need to live it up, not live in fear.

[Encryptshun]

I do not grok your mouth music.

[DamonDread]

I love this thread.

I come from a family of farmers (tabacco) and horse traders (Thoroughbreds). I figure if the worst comes you will find me in the Hills of Ky tending my crops, breaking horses, and hunting my 300+ acres of Blueberry ridge. I dont know alot about the economy, but i have always been a survivalist. I dont live outside of my means, and have NO desire to be rich. Our goverment is corrupt with little to NO thought about the little guys well being. I dont pretend to believe that the gov't has my back in any aspect of my life. Im just wating for the END, and the return of communal living. I can tend crops, herd cattle, break horses, fletch arrows, shoe horses, work a forge ( i cant make swords LOL) and do so without oil. There was a time when all a man had was his two hands and the strength of his back. I really was born in the wrong time period.

[Eikon]

When it hits the fan.. I'm moving to KY to live with DamonDread

[Encryptshun]

When it hits the fan.. I'm moving to KY to live with DamonDread

Sounds good, but I'm wondering how he'll get from Daytona Beach to the hills of Kentucky without gasoline or infrastructure.

[DamonDread]

When it hits the fan.. I'm moving to KY to live with DamonDread

Sounds good, but I'm wondering how he'll get from Daytona Beach to the hills of Kentucky without gasoline or infrastructure.

My legs aint broken! LMAO. Adding horse thief to the list of crimes i have already commited wont bother me none. Lord knows im pistoled up. Survival is just that. Surviving my any means. I figure i will be back there befor it hits fan anyways, no where else to go if i lose my house. There is an empty 6 bedroom house, with a stand alone wash house, slaughter house, and outhouse still waiting on me. Clear some of the woods, for material to build community buildings and cabins. Remake society in my own backyard. Why not?

[Encryptshun]

Why wait? Move there, get internet, post build thread.

[DamonDread]

Why wait? Move there, get internet, post build thread.

I think that build thread would even top Broadfields LMAO.

[HashiriyaS14]

Who bought at peak? Not me. Who says this is the peak? Not me. Who is diversified? Me.

Ok, well I'm only addressing buying NOW, as your post read like you were telling people to buy metals now. Thus, any prior basis you may have is functionally irrelevant to your recommendation (if you are in fact making one).

I do think we're probably nearing peak. Even if we're $200/oz away, I don't want to hang on for that and then lose $500/oz in a tumble. We can agree to disagree, speculation is just that.

Derivatives, yeah, great idea. Ask all those people that dabbled in the housing market derivatives how well they worked for them. Ask Greece about Derivatives. They could show you how the investment banks helped them hide their debt and then created credit default swaps to profit from the failure of the monster they created. You should look at the back story on PM ETFs, musical chairs man with metal sold several times over. JP Morgan has a bunch of law suits coming their way. Contracts coming to maturity and they are unable to deliver and are forced to negotiate a metal contract for cash. You keep trusting those scumbags if you choose.

I'm not talking about esoteric derivatives, just simple ETF's based on the price of an ounce of gold, or silver, or whatever. You aren't using leverage (at least not by design), it's absolutely nothing at all like a credit default swap.

As the world moves away from the dollar as a reserve currency, China quietly divests itself of dollar-based investment vehicles, countries in Europe fall like dominoes under the weight of similar crushing debt and flawed economic models as the U.S., but while they kick in austerity we hurtle towards quantitative easing 3, you are actually still drinking the kool aid? Delusion is a hell of a drug.

I don't disagree that we're moving away from the dollar, but I'm arguing that it makes more sense to buy a basket of other currencies or an ETF based on a hard asset (not gold, IMO, but again, agree to disagree) rather than to buy actual tangible metal that can be stolen, lost, etc.

I have yet to see anyone demonstrate how the current trend is going to be reversed. You speak as if you have the answer Hash; take a shot.
Tell us how we stop deficit spending and pay down the debt.
Tell us how to put Americans back to work.
Tell us how to deal with a dead housing market with people getting kicked out of their homes and those hanging in there upside down on their mortgage.
Tell us how we get the cities, states, and our federal government to a point of solvency.

You didn't ask about any of that stuff and so I didn't address it, and I certainly don't claim to have the answers to any of those questions.

You're telling people to buy hard commodities because of future currency destabilization. I chimed in that I think that there are other, superior hedging instruments that carry precisely the same price risk with none of the physical damage/theft risk. This is the full extent of our conversation to this point, it didn't have anything to do with mortgages, municipal solvency, or the mating habits of the African and/or European swallow.


Cliffs:

Hash thinks the following:

1.) TMS is probably right about the dollar, at least to a certain degree. Diversification is good.

2.) Hard commodities are innately inferior to ETF's based on them because they can be misplaced, stolen, or otherwise damaged, and they must be stored, etc.

3.) Due to this innate inferiority, the only reason someone would buy hard commodities rather than the aforementioned ETF's is because said someone thinks that all fiat currencies are somehow in danger of collapse because they are expecting some sort of massive global destabilization and/or apocalypse.

4.) Deficits will rise, and spending will have to decrease and taxes will have to increase, and it will surely be painful, but it won't be Mad Max. There will still be banks and stock exchanges and ATM's and microwaves and the evening news. Some of us will just be a little poorer. The guy who bought gold at a historical all time high will probably be a lot poorer.

[themadscientist]

Cliffs:

Hash thinks the following:

1.) TMS is probably right about the dollar, at least to a certain degree. Diversification is good..

Diversification is good. I am in the market as well and do not advocate all eggs in one basket.

2.) Hard commodities are innately inferior to ETF's based on them because they can be misplaced, stolen, or otherwise damaged, and they must be stored, etc. .

This assumes you think you will always have unrestricted access to intangeble assets. Never forget that your "wealth" is nothing more than 1s and 0s in a computer. Remember the flash crash?
Real assets may be deemed inferior if you seek rapid liquidity, trading with high frequency. I do that in certain ares and exchange traded funds and stocks are ideal for that. In a time of collapse, trading gets locked down though and you may watch helplessly as your "wealth" disappears.
In a normal world, yes, I would recommend leaning heavily to the side of liquid assets like ETFs, but this is a thread about economic collapse so assets that exist up in the clouds are a nono.
If you do not expect crisis then of course they are fine.

3.) Due to this innate inferiority, the only reason someone would buy hard commodities rather than the aforementioned ETF's is because said someone thinks that all fiat currencies are somehow in danger of collapse because they are expecting some sort of massive global destabilization and/or apocalypse. .

I think i sort of made that clear that that's what I expect.

4.) Deficits will rise, and spending will have to decrease and taxes will have to increase, and it will surely be painful, but it won't be Mad Max. There will still be banks and stock exchanges and ATM's and microwaves and the evening news. Some of us will just be a little poorer. The guy who bought gold at a historical all time high will probably be a lot poorer.

You have yet to demonstrate how all these debts get settled, how confidence in the dollar returns, how Americans get back to work, etc etc. "it will work itself out" isn't going to cut it. How does the economy turn away from the crash?

I don't buy the Mad Max scenario, but there will be chaos. ATMs might be plugged in, but they will likely be empty, or spit out useless paper that is worth next to nothing. Microwaves will still be there, but food to stick in them will increase to many times what it used to cost. the evening news will still be on, maybe all day because the news about what is going down will be coming fast and hard and an hour lag could make or break you.

America is leveraged to the hilt. Our entire country was bought with a credit card and we have been making minimum monthly payments while continuing to run up a higher balance. The rest of the world is not going to enable our overextended lifestyles and there is a hard crash coming this year.

Watch the debate when the time comes to raise the debt ceiling. When this all blows up you better be holding something more real than a piece of plastic.

You completely ignore the economic situation and seem to assume this is the 80's. It very much is not the 80's. There is a bubble, but it's not an asset bubble, it's a currency bubble. Watch it go higher and higher, BY THE MINUTE!

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

When it pops, the very medium of wealth storage and exchange will be brought down. In that environment, what will you turn to? Gold? Land? Food? Oil? It doesn't matter what you think the best hard asset is to stick your savings into, and all those are worthy of consideration, because it will be too late; your savings are now worth nothing. You have missed the opportunity and your purchasing power is gone.