The real cost of your iPhone

[OriginalWheelman]

I never liked Foxconn's products, but now I no longer like them as a company.

http://www.dailytech.com/Report+Only+Es ... e18428.htm

"Last time a reporter tried to penetrate Apple's veil of secrecy, security guards employed by their parts supplier, Foxconn, beat up the reporters involved. But questions had to be answered in the wake of the suicide/potential murder of a Foxconn employee which occurred after the employee lost an iPhone prototype.

Chinese newspaper Southern Weekly was determined to find out the true story, and sent a reporter in undercover, posing as a new employee. Given the fact that Foxconn's Shenzen plant that builds Apple's iPads, iPods, and iPhones has 400,000 employees, that part wasn't too hard.

What was hard, was for the reporter to endure the plant's reportedly hellish working conditions for 28 days.

So far in the last four and a half months seven workers from the plant have committed suicide, and at least 9 have attempted suicide. According to reporter Liu Zhi Yi who infiltrated the plant, the likely reason why was that they felt taking their own life was the only option to escape the hellish working conditions of the plant.

According to Liu, the plant makes employees work around the clock, only pausing briefly to eat or sleep. Most of the time the employees are standing, seldom able to sit down and rest their weary legs. This is perfectly legal, as employees are required to sign a special overtime document that override Chinese workplace laws and essentially allows the employer to demand whatever hours they want from you, without additional compensation.

Foxconn pays the workers far too little for them to hope to buy one of the Apple products they assemble. It pays them only 900 Chinese Yuan a month —about $130 USD. Still the workers have dreams. They joke that their carts that they haul Apple materials on are "BMWs", dreaming of real BMWs. They buy lottery tickets and bet on horse races in hopes of miraculously being handed an escape from their purgatory."

Thankfully things like this ended a long time ago in the US.

[skydragoness]

Not surprised. It's not just Foxconn that treats its "employees" [slaves] that way. So does Walmart's plants in China. Which is why I'll never shop at a Walmart unless I absolutely have to (i.e. there's nothing else around).

[Urabus GodofTraction]

Not surprised. It's not just Foxconn that treats its "employees" [slaves] that way. So does Walmart's plants in China. Which is why I'll never shop at a Walmart unless I absolutely have to (i.e. there's nothing else around).

Wal-Mart, for all it's many problems, does source the sizable portion of it's store-brand items from inside the United States.

And the nature of store-brand products makes it so "Wal-Mart plans" are rare anywhere.

[tigersharkdude]

dont forget Toyota

[PoorManQ45]

I understand that this is meant to try and poke at apple products, and I like it very much, but you need to realize something.

Foxconn is the #1 supplier of hardware for ALL manufacturers. Dell, HP, Gateway, Toshiba, Apple, and Sony. They all source to the lowest bidder, which ends up being Foxconn

[Jesda]

Not surprised. It's not just Foxconn that treats its "employees" [slaves] that way. So does Walmart's plants in China. Which is why I'll never shop at a Walmart unless I absolutely have to (i.e. there's nothing else around).

One day, you'll be awake at 3am and realize you need carb cleaner, socks, and Oreos. Only Wal-Mart carries all three in the middle of the night.

[Dattebayo]

One day, you'll be awake at 3am and realize you need carb cleaner, socks, and Oreos. Only Wal-Mart carries all three in the middle of the night.

Don't forget the tilapia 10-pack. You need that too.

[OriginalWheelman]

I understand that this is meant to try and poke at apple products, and I like it very much, but you need to realize something.

Foxconn is the #1 supplier of hardware for ALL manufacturers. Dell, HP, Gateway, Toshiba, Apple, and Sony. They all source to the lowest bidder, which ends up being Foxconn

All my s*** is ASUS. I don't f*** around.

[dre1507]

my POS ASUS laptop is holding up fine too. just needs a little refurbishing (if that's the correct term) to make it look nice again. i feel so ignorant. i'm not surprised, but feel bad for not being aware much earlier.

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

Don't forget Nike.
In fact...I'd be more interested if they came out with a scathing report of well-paid, well-fed, and well-benefited workers assembling their products.

[Jesda]

Heh, your Asus is made in China too. The completed parts are shipped to Taiwan for final assembly and quality assurance.

Slave labor for everyone.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/207381

[RCA]

Two of its most recent products are bulletproof equipment for a Mexican telecom operator and gear capable of withstanding Russia's frigid winters, hardly items the average consumer is clamoring for....

And because foreign brands have taken much of the market's high end, most companies are forced to compete on cost, leaving little room for investment in R&D

How do you not R&D products like that?

Fascinating read. Never even thought about Chinese marketing but this article is spot on. I wish more US companies spent less on advertising, then taking that difference and lowering prices. But yeah, slave labor built the pyramids, the US and is still what drives the world. When China can no longer sell as cheaply as some one else, then Vietnam will have factories that will make workers kill themselves. I wish working standards could be standardized globally so I don't have to go and do but loads of research about products and companies.

[OriginalWheelman]

Heh, your Asus is made in China too. The completed parts are shipped to Taiwan for final assembly and quality assurance.

Slave labor for everyone.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/207381

My ASUS is made in China, Taiwan, Czech Republic, and Mexico. They run their own manufacturing and have nothing to do with Foxconn, other than perhaps the same component suppliers.

[RobPaulson]

good thing i just replaced my icrap with a nexus one! W000!!

[ScrapMetal]

Can you really blame American companies for outsourcing their parts supplier's and factories' to other countries where they pay employees measly wages and receive unfair treatment? It's all about supply and demand and at the end of the day it's really all about profit for these companies. It's up to the consumers to educate themselves and see if they truly want to do business with these companies.

Enjoy your iPhones

(Sorry if I turned this thread in a political direction, I'm not gonna be replying any further)

[Alfador]

Can you really blame American companies for outsourcing their parts supplier's and factories' to other countries where they pay employees measly wages and receive unfair treatment? It's all about supply and demand and at the end of the day it's really all about profit for these companies. It's up to the consumers to educate themselves and see if they truly want to do business with these companies.

Enjoy your iPhones

(Sorry if I turned this thread in a political direction, I'm not gonna be replying any further)

Yes and no. You can blame them, but you have to be fair and blame them all. Anything you buy with a "made in china" sticker contributes to this problem to some extent, and as long as any of them are doing it, they all have to do it.

This may sound callous and centrist but I'm far more concerned with companies like Wal-Mart and Home Depot that abuse the everloving s*** out of their American employees, twisting and bending laws whenever they can to screw them than I will ever be about their practices on the other side of the world.

[Jesda]

Heh, your Asus is made in China too. The completed parts are shipped to Taiwan for final assembly and quality assurance.

Slave labor for everyone.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/207381

My ASUS is made in China, Taiwan, Czech Republic, and Mexico. They run their own manufacturing and have nothing to do with Foxconn, other than perhaps the same component suppliers.

My Asus was made in a low-wage Chinese factory that probably wasn't very environmentally safe or 100% ethical. Same for my Lenovo. No, there weren't any KNOWN suicides as Asus and Lenovo haven't yet been investigated, but I doubt the operating conditions for primary builds are dramatically different.

Despite conditions we consider poor, Chinese manufacturing gives the people of China an alternative to starving. Unless you're talking about Dubai, the workers are not indentured. They can wander back to the rice paddies and carry on as before.

[Jesda]

it's really all about profit for these companies.

It had damn well better be. If the goal isn't to turn a healthy profit, I won't be a shareholder.

[skydragoness]

This may sound callous and centrist but I'm far more concerned with companies like Wal-Mart and Home Depot that abuse the everloving s*** out of their American employees, twisting and bending laws whenever they can to screw them than I will ever be about their practices on the other side of the world.

^ This

[dre1507]

From a human being perspective, it's all wrong; whether the unfair treatment of employees is happening in America or not. It's all about maximizing profit. Companies like Wal-Mart and Home Depot have no need for factories and plants to be set up in other countries, so they do what they can here to make sure they're not falling behind the companies with such institutions abroad. Fixing the problem here only does exactly that. There's still people in other countries suffering at the hands of Americans, and the corrupted upper echelon of their own country, just like Americans in America were/are. Do they not also deserve fair treatment?

[Looneybomber]

Do they not also deserve fair treatment?

Not according to americans and others that want cheap stuff. The last pair of jeans I bought that were "made in USA" were over $100. Just think, if Foxcon paid their employees $15/hr instead of $130/mo, electronics would be crazy expensive.

[dre1507]

Yea, i still scrutinize the "Made in USA" companies, because somewhere along the line, there's still someone being shafted - usually the employees and customers.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Walmart bashing annoys me. I know plenty of people who work or have worked at Walmart and none of them have ever been mistreated or taken advantage of.

[dre1507]

I don't know about the Wal-Marts where you live, but in my area the Wal-marts are just like the mcdonald's. Make tons of profit, pay employees dead on minimum wage or a little more (ranges from cents to $1.50 more), and fight against employees getting overtime. so Wal-Mart bashing in my area is justifiable.

[Jesda]

My roommate works at Wal-Mart, for well over a year now. They give him a decent benefits package and he's treated well, especially considering what a dumbass he is. Its the only company that would give him a job, and he does it consistently and earned a couple little raises.

Most of WM's store managers start at the bottom.

[Jesda]

I don't know about the Wal-Marts where you live, but in my area the Wal-marts are just like the mcdonald's. Make tons of profit, pay employees dead on minimum wage or a little more (ranges from cents to $1.50 more), and fight against employees getting overtime. so Wal-Mart bashing in my area is justifiable.

I worked some reeeeeaally s*** jobs in my late teens and early 20s. Let me tell you, local small businesses are scrutinized far less and will bend the rules more frequently. I remember working at a place that intentionally turned off the heat in the winter to save money. We all wore jackets to work. My job was to sit at the computer and cold call people, taking surveys for political campaigns and marketing firms.

I did it quite well and got the hell out as soon as I could find better work.

WM is saintly compared to other no-skills-or-education-required entry-level jobs. They offer advancement if you're good and a sense of teamwork.

[dre1507]

hmm. interesting point.

my overall goal after graduating is to be my own boss and pay what ever few employees i hire very well. the problem i have with most of these no-skill-or-education-required entry-level jobs is they want you to work the maximum amount of hours without going into overtime, and sometimes cut your hours the next week if you call out on any given day the current week. while it requires no skill, there's often times just as much stress on entry-level employees by managers and bosses as you would find in any other job/career. i could go on complaining about how stressing my day is especially since i work the afternoon/evening shift, which is when the customer to employee ratio is greatest. however, im tired of beating that old cow. i've also come to understand that 90% of my co-workers are lazy and complacent, yet not content, with working there. i am very discouraged and depressed at the thought of continuing working there, which strange enough has motivated me to start searching elsewhere. Anticipating graduation and graduate school.

i myself have never worked at any of the Wal-Mart's in my area, but the way my family members were treated there is a huge turn off for me. However i truly blame myself for even still being at McDonald's. I was told about the opportunity to work for the county washing and cleaning buses which would eventually have lead to me advancing to working on the buses - work while acquiring certification. at that time i was one of the complacent-yet-not-content idiots.

[Looneybomber]

I don't know about the Wal-Marts where you live, but in my area the Wal-marts are just like the mcdonald's. Make tons of profit, pay employees dead on minimum wage or a little more (ranges from cents to $1.50 more), and fight against employees getting overtime. so Wal-Mart bashing in my area is justifiable.

Being that I work for a large retailer (not WM) on the distribution side, not the store side, I can shed some insight into why store personnel get paid so little...because companies can! Lots of HS and college students want jobs and will take a job for a short period of time and move on. The attrition rate is quite high in stores, there's always a supply of new employee's, and it's not like any of them need any special education or skill.

I understand your point about maximizing profits and paying store/entry level employees next to nothing, because there’s a huge global support infrastructure setup to deliver what guest want, when they want it. Here at my distribution center, new people start out at nearly $15/hr, have company picnics, seasonal cook-outs, catered meals on holiday weeks, optional overtime and time off, and other stuff. We have nearly 600 employees and all we do is take money from the company because we don’t sell anything to guests in stores. Stores do that. We’re just an operating cost. The same can be said for WM, HD, Kmart, Kohls, JCPenny, McD’s, etc… There’s an operation of significant cost that most people don’t know about and never see, so long as that operating network performs flawlessly.

That’s what I love about my job (logistics). So long as I do it good (plan out loads for the stores in the Midwest and liaison between stores and the distribution center), no one knows about me. Once I make a mistake or something catastrophic happens, I’m in the spot light and LOTS of people need answers yesterday.

[PoorManQ45]

I don't know about the Wal-Marts where you live, but in my area the Wal-marts are just like the mcdonald's. Make tons of profit, pay employees dead on minimum wage or a little more (ranges from cents to $1.50 more), and fight against employees getting overtime. so Wal-Mart bashing in my area is justifiable.

The attrition rate is quite high in stores, there's always a supply of new employee's, and it's not like any of them need any special education o

This is the exact issue.

There is always a steady supply of kids that are willing to work just to have a job. They don't care what they're making. This causes the companies to steadily lower the wages until they reach a point where they aren't getting many applicants. This is when they raise the pay to just above acceptable to keep the flow of employees/applicants steady.

Unfortunately when you pay an employee "just enough" the work they do is going to be "just enough". Yes there are exceptions, but overall most people that work in these types of jobs are simply doing "just enough" to not get noticed and/or harassed. This leads to subpar work, and in turn a decrease in the customer's happiness. Walmart, as used in this thread, has been able to counter customer happiness by leaning on its suppliers to supply them with products as cheaply as possible. These cuts are passed on to the customer.

Unfortunately, the customers that are satisfied with walmart are typically those that are working in a "just enough" position themselves. So the low prices are perfect for them. Customers are not happy with the experience they receive at walmart, they are simply content.

Now, compare this to Target(Looney correct me if I'm off point). The wages are a little bit above "just enough". So you're already one step above. This extra little step, speaking as a customer, makes the experience much more pleasant. The employees seem to be generally happy, and in turn more helpful. The prices are a little higher, but overall the experience is better.

Unfortunately people don't seem to care about this at all. With information readily available to do research on products customers typically don't need much assistance, other then to find the physical location of the product. This solidifies the company's belief that they don't need to pay their employees much as their general happiness does not affect the average customer.

[dre1507]

yea, and that's what sucks. i care about what i make. The cost of living is always on the rise, but wages seem to stagnate more and more. It's not right (hardly anyone cares though) to loop everyone in with the kids who work just to buy sneakers and clothes and don't care if they get fired because mommy and daddy can cover that anyways. I haven't bought myself a decent pair or sneakers or some clothes in about a year, because i simply can't afford it with all that my paycheck has to do.

i work to help my mom with the bills. It's very rough on her and my aunts with the mortgage and various bills and the current situation at the corrupted to hell hospital they work at. i know lately i haven't been helping due to all my paychecks going into fixing my car, but once the car is sold i'll be able to pay it back and give her a slice of the profit. when that is done, i'll still need decent wages that allow me to cover all my other bills, plus still helping out at home.

So while there are kids that don't really need decent wages, there are people who very much need it. Some without decent education are using it to fully or supplement paying for schooling. Now when you stagnate wages, but raise your profits via inflation, which generally affects the cost of living, that's also a form of oppression. Cause now i have to work more to have the same amount of money left over, after paying bills and buying from your grocery store (supermarket), as i did before. With the scheduling of classes and also the rises in FIU's credit hour costs, that basically puts me in a position of loss. If it wasn't for the grants and loans (mhmm, my education doesn't belong to me 100%) i get, paying for school would be impossible.

Lately i've noticed there is no significant difference between shopping at wal-mart or publix, which i used to bash for raising prices every month or so. At least that's what i've noticed in my area. Anyone else noticed anything similar between supermarkets/grocery stores in their areas?

Sure employees seem happy, but that's only because most know quitting won't help anything, and complaints from customers won't help you keep that job, that is barely helping you to get by. The sad thing is "just enough" is ever so slowly becoming "just barely enough". But no need complaining, because the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer.

If majority of Americans in America can barely afford to live, how well do you think people in other countries subject to microscopic wages, worse at the hands of Americans, are living?