The race factor

[audtatious]

http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn....actor/

So, after reading the "article" and looking through the replies, does anyone really believe this BS? While I'm absolutely positive there are people in the US who will NOT vote from him because he is black (half-ish black), there is a much larger number who WILL vote for him because he is black.

Thoughts?

[96Qowner]

The differences between Barack Obama and John McCain couldn’t be more well-defined. Obama wants to change Washington. McCain is a part of Washington and a part of the Bush legacy. Yet the polls remain close. Doesn’t make sense…unless it’s race.

Or maybe ... experience? Or maybe ... McCain=Bush is ridiculously untrue?

Both race and gender are issues in this campaign. People will vote for Obama BECAUSE he's biracial, and people will vote for McCain BECAUSE Sarah is a woman, and of course, people will also use race and gender as a reason NOT to vote for a candidate.

There is one very stark reality, though, that everyone must consider. There is no other constituency as large as the Black vote (about 12% of the total vote, 22% of the Democratic vote) that consistently votes over 90% for one Party, election after election. If it's not because of race, then what is it?

[AZhitman]

There's so much half-truth, rhetoric and unfounded, inaccurate proliferation of wrong information in the statement 96 quoted...

The differences between the two are NOT that "well-defined". Blaming race for the disparity in the polls is pathetic.

But when one ONLY sees the sophomoric assumption that "Obama wants to change Washington and McCain is a part of Washington", that eliminates ANY meaningful and productive discourse RIGHT THERE.

Does anyone not comprehend that BO has BECOME "just another politician", promising 'change' but not providing concrete plans to do so? Does anyone not comprehend that Mac despises the Bush administration and has backhanded his own party on countless occasions?

Granted, both are politicians, and both will say what their handlers think the voters want to hear.

But to oversimplify this to the degree that the quote does is simply retarded.

It IS about race, at least in small part. It HAS to be. It's not something that can be hidden. It's like saying, "It's not about age" - Everyone KNOWS J-Mac is long in the tooth. Everyone KNOWS BO isn't Anglo.

Here's the problem - If it's NOT about race, then why do we refer to BO as "Black"? Is he Black? I think he identifies himself as Black, but ONLY when it's beneficial for him to do so (and honestly, I can't say that I blame him - how cool is it to have the ability to pander to two demographics?)

If this is what it takes to get people energized about the election, great. I'm all for it. But at some point, the journalists and media have to be responsible enough to recognize that their duty is to quit sensationalizing a tenuous situation. If people want to vote for or against a candidate based on race, fine. That's their idiocy. But the media needs to keep it where it belongs: ABOUT THE ISSUES.

[audtatious]

Hasn't McCain been in the biz much longer than the Bush Admin?

[AZhitman]

Hell, he's been in the biz longer than the Lincoln Administration.

[96Qowner]

Yeah, but that cuts both ways. I was thinking along those same lines last night. Biden has been in the Senate longer than either of them - had been there for 8? years by the time McCain was elected, heheh. So, one could say that Biden has been a part of the entrenched old-school establishment the longest and therefore is the least attractive candidate for Change.

But the thing that disturbs me the most is that people are willing to ignore Barry's lack of experience BECAUSE he's biracial. But Sarah is a mere woman, therefore her lack of experience is important. I'm not so worried about a VP candidate with limited executive experience. I'm REALLY worried about a Presidential candidate with little legislative experience and NO executive experience.

If it's not race, then what is it? Sure, he talks pretty, but how does that trump experience?

[AZhitman]

It doesn't. We're seeing that now.

It's readily apparent that the selection of Palin took ALL the wind out of the Dems' sails... Like I said before, THEY wanted to claim the icon as their own, and THEY aren't happy that it's the GOP fielding a woman candidate.

Now they're forced into a position of "attacking" a woman, which is something they've railed against for eons.

It forces the hypocrisy to come out of the closet and into the light, and many on the Left are realizing that there's a "good ol' boy" network in the Democratic Party JUST like they've always despised in the GOP.

[Encryptshun]

Interestingly, NPR conducted a "study" on how race might motivate voting practices. They took a sample of 13 people, 6 of them people of "color" and 7 caucasians. They did not select based on party affiliation, sex or age -- only race. Blacks, hispanics, and asians were represented in the sample of 6 people.

Everyone was seated at a big table and each participant was asked to go around the room and identify who they were voting for and why. They then had to defend their positions.

In the end all 6 non-whites went on record as supporting Obama. One of the caucasians went on record as voting for Obama. The other 6 people (all white) supported McCain.

NPR, a very liberal news outlet, was surprised that the race of the voter had so much sway over the individual's selected candidate -- they aired the story anyway. So 7 votes for Obama (one white, the rest non-white) and 6 votes for McCain (all white).

[audtatious]

How did they determine that those selecting Obama or those selecting McCain did so because of race alone and not what party they are with or the issues at hand?

[AZhitman]

Yeah, that's a tough one.

Hell, the one White voter who chose BO could have been his high-school buddy.

The Asian could have been a descendant of one of McCain's Vietnamese casualties.

Too small a sample, and too many confounding factors - But I don't disagree that the outcome of a valid study would probably bear out the point they were trying to make.

[Encryptshun]

both you are correct to bring up those points. That's why I said "study" in quotes.

There was one black lady who went on record that she was voting for Obama purely because of his race.

But agreed, too many variables in the sample - the curious point was that NPR obviously thought they'd be getting different results, so if they intentionally skewed the sampling they either did so badly or couldn't actually find anyone where race wasn't a factor.

[audtatious]

But agreed, too many variables in the sample - the curious point was that NPR obviously thought they'd be getting different results, so if they intentionally skewed the sampling they either did so badly or couldn't actually find anyone where race wasn't a factor.

Did the people who voted for McCain say they did it simply because he was white?

[Encryptshun]

Did the people who voted for McCain say they did it simply because he was white?

Nope. Only one participant specifically stated race was the ONLY factor.

[audtatious]

Thus it's pretty invalid. The outcome is "suggestive" of bi-racial prejudices since those of color voted for the black man and all but one white person voted for the white man. Without digging deeper then the suggested outcome is crap and means absolutely nothing.

[Encryptshun]

I never said it was valid. In fact, that's why I put "study" in quotes and then highlighted that in a subsequent post.

I don't think anyone is trying to pass this off as science -- it was just an item of interest regarding the topic.

[audtatious]

I was just talking openly about the information posted, not saying you did or did not believe in it

[hsckris]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect

The Bradley effect "refers to a frequently observed discrepancy between voter opinion polls and election outcomes in American political campaigns when a white candidate and a non-white candidate run against each other... despite being ahead in voter polls, the Bradley effect refers to a tendency on the part of white voters to tell pollsters that they are undecided or likely to vote for a Black candidate, when, on election day, they vote for his/her white opponent."

Check that out and tell me what ya'll think...

[ishkabibble]

Here's the problem - If it's NOT about race, then why do we refer to BO as "Black"? Is he Black? I think he identifies himself as Black, but ONLY when it's beneficial for him to do so (and honestly, I can't say that I blame him - how cool is it to have the ability to pander to two demographics?)

I dunno about this point. My friend, who is half-black, who was adopted by a white family as a baby, and whose actions show that she does not identify with "black culture" in any way, still refers to herself as black. Heck, even my ex-gf from high school who was less than 1/4 black and had the same situation still referred to herself as black. I doubt either of them were pandering to demographics. It's just that most people of mixed race refer to themselves that way.

With respect to blacks voting for him simply because he is black... I think there is a compounding factor that he is a Democrat. If a (neo)conservative ran for Prez, that person would get some of the black vote, but it wouldn't be a very strong turnout IMO. As an example, Michael Steele lost his Senate race by a huge margin.

All in all, it's no different than women voting for Palin simply because she is a woman.

[audtatious]

All in all, it's no different than women voting for Palin simply because she is a woman.

Sure it is. When women get pissed and riot in the streets it results in going topless and burning bra's. When ........

nevermind.....

[ishkabibble]

Hmm, I live in freaking ground zero of some of the 1960s race riots. Maybe Hash can bust through on his little Ruckus and save us if something goes down.

Wait... he'd probably take us to the safety of the Maryland suburbs. Which is worse than death, so nevermind.

[audtatious]

Cincy as a whole is usually a bomb waiting to go off. I assume they are going to have some form of riots regardless of the outcome.

Damn shame....

[AZhitman]

Hash rolls through my neighborhood on his Ruckus, he'd better have a bag of newspapers slung over his shoulder.

[ishkabibble]

Cincy as a whole is usually a bomb waiting to go off.

Weird. There must be something I don't know about Cincy. Whenever I go there, it just seems like a snoozer of a city that's proud that it "invented" really crappy chili on top of spaghetti.

[audtatious]

Don't knock Skyline



Yeah, there have been some race relation issues in Cincy for sure.

[C-Kwik]

But the thing that disturbs me the most is that people are willing to ignore Barry's lack of experience BECAUSE he's biracial.

You assume THAT is the reason they are ignoring his apparent lack of federal governmental experience. I think the race issue is significant, but I don't think you can simply put any black man up there and all these people will vote for him. Perhaps its his charisma. Perhaps he is handsome (crush on Obama?). Perhaps its a preception of changethat is driving them. I'd argue that after going through 8 years of Bush, people want as much contrast to Bush as possible; McCain can be percieved to be like Bush due to much of the media's emphasis on this AND perhaps simply because McCain is a republican.

Personally, I agree that Barack is fairly inexperienced. Does that make him a bad choice for me? Not necessarily. After looking at most of his political positions and comparing them to McCain's, I find that my political beliefs and ideologies align much more with Barack. While that won't be the break point for me, I won't be ignoring it either. Its hard to pick a candidate you don't agree with. Even if he has more experience. Its just not as simple as you suggest. Dismissing Barack because of his lack of experience is just as bad as simply voting against him for the same reason. Its okay to be critical. We should be. But that includes each aspect of both candidates.

[audtatious]

After looking at most of his political positions and comparing them to McCain's,

His political positions before or after he changed them? Or maybe the ones he has not changed yet?

[96Qowner]

You assume THAT is the reason they are ignoring his apparent lack of federal governmental experience. I think the race issue is significant, but I don't think you can simply put any black man up there and all these people will vote for him.

With respect to blacks voting for him simply because he is black... I think there is a compounding factor that he is a Democrat.

Yep, I need to clarify my point. I'm not saying Blacks are voting for Obama because he's biracial. I'm saying that Blacks vote as a race for the Democrat - ergo racism. This year, a case could be made that they also voted as a race for Obama over Hillary, but as C-Kwik says, that's rather natural, just as women have more of a tendency to vote for a woman.

The distinct difference is that Blacks vote as a 90% block, election after election. There is no other constituency that is so polarized. When I say that the Democrats nominated Obama because he's biracial, I'm mostly talking about the entire Democratic electorate, even though Blacks are 22% of it. No white guy with that amount of experience would have been nominated, and we ALL know it.

[AZhitman]

His political positions before or after he changed them? Or maybe the ones he has not changed yet?

I'm absolutely certain that the "Get Out Of Iraq" crowd will switch their vote after learning Obama attempted to forestall troop withdrawal for political gain.

Let's pin a few American troop deaths on Obama... Let him see how it feels. After all, if he'd stuck to his guns, or given credit to the current administration for doing the right thing, then he wouldn't be exposing troops to additional danger.

I love how his pompous a$$ is running around the globe pretending to be the POTUS.

[audtatious]

There is still a lot of stuff about Obama that is being kept under wraps. His 1981 2-week trip to Pakistan is one of them.

[wingFeather]

Sorry to say it, but from what I see on the Web... black skin = Obama vote.

I'm glad I pick my leaders based on real issues, not because Tupac said "ain't nevah gon be black president"...