The Pledge of Allegiance

[srellim234]

I pledge(if I am emotionally so inclined, but otherwise make no commitment whatsoever)allegiance(or if not, at least a passing interest in)to the Cloth Symbol(known by most but not necessarily myself as "The Flag")of the loosely associated group of governmental regulatory bodies known collectively as The United States of America(which may also be referred to as a group of ethnically diversified persons living in the same place at the same time)and to the Republic(please refer to the aforementioned disclaimer regarding the USA)for which it stands, one nation(except for those millions of individuals who are illegally here from other nations, flouting our laws and sending our money back to their nations)under(or maybe even over)an unspecified deity(or not if you so choose so as not to possibly offend any member of the ethnically diversified group herein assembled to recite or not to recite this statement of allegiance or interest depending on the mood of the moment)indivisible(or invisible or visible or whatever)with liberty(because youhave to have liberty even if there is no commitment or responsibility whatsoever)and justice(whatever you may define that to be)for all.(and by "all" we may mean just one lousy individual who wants to, with the help of his A.C.L.U. court appointed attorney, ruin everthing for everybody else)

[Soravia]

It's all about what's inside your heart. And for some people, that piece of cloth for you is the symbol of something they hold very dear.

[szh]

You can renounce your citizenship and leave, you know!

(A freedom that we all have here.)

Z

[Soravia]

Were you actually waving Mexican flags in Cali a couple of years back?

[srellim234]

Absolutely. This is just the politically corrected ersion of the Pledge.

Over 30 years ago I had the good fortune of representing the U.SA. in some international track competitions and the better fortune of winning the high jump at a couple. The emotion I felt as they ran the Stars & Stripes up the flagpole while the Star Spangled Banner played drove me to tears, even at ages 20 and 22.

Today I still get emotional (and still to tears, sometimes) when I see our flag going up like that at international competitions. I don't mind if my kids see me crying at those moments, either.

EDIT* You guys took that sarcastic pledge way too seriously if you think I feel that way after our discussions on this forum.

[ishkabibble]

Look at the imports chastising the native. Hee hee.

[Soravia]

LoL!

Well, I respect nationalism, even if it were not mine. I also believe in respect for another people's nationalsim, even if they don't know what they have in their hands.

Nationalism with the highest respect for their flag (or country).

Disrespects for other's nationalism (or country).
Modified by Soravia at 11:41 PM 9/5/2008

[szh]

EDIT* You guys took that sarcastic pledge way too seriously if you think I feel that way after our discussions on this forum.

Yes, I did get that initial sarcasm and I did not think that you were serious.

In my post, I did not mean "you" as in a personal "you" ... I meant anybody who felt that way about being a citizen. Sorry to be unclear.

Z

[Armelius]

The flag is a war symbol to identify one group over an other.

Any time you see a flag consider that nation or state is at war or wants to identify itself and it's supporters as against something, the other, or even you.

A man at peace has no need of war or flags.

[szh]

The flag is a war symbol to identify one group over an other.

Any time you see a flag consider that nation or state is at war or wants to identify itself and it's supporters as against something, the other, or even you.

A man at peace has no need of war or flags.

Really?

In less modern times, flags have been used for communication and identification. Think semaphores and notification of emergencies (like on ships at sea).

All in peace time, by the way.

Z

[LeroyBrown]

Really?

In less modern times, flags have been used for communication and identification. Think semaphores and notification of emergencies (like on ships at sea).

All in peace time, by the way.

Z

he showed you up armelius

[Armelius]

Great point. Perhaps we are more under admiralty laws than anything else.

[WDRacing]

You're a fool...

Stop posting in the Politics section. You were gone for awhile, it was nice. Where ever you went...go back and stay. If it involves an old iron tub full of rusty razors...all the better.

[Armelius]

You're a fool...

Stop posting in the Politics section. You were gone for awhile, it was nice. Where ever you went...go back and stay. If it involves an old iron tub full of rusty razors...all the better.

Those admiralty laws will help you ban hunting or circumventing the constitution. You are getting owned in that thread, so why are you taking that out on me here?

[WDRacing]

If you read the whole thread instead of being a troll you'd have noticed I was just making it to start a confrontational debate. Talk about owning yourself...

GTFO of here...

[smockers83]

So you're trying to tell me that every time I see my state flag flying outside a business or something, that my state is at war? May I ask who the state of Michigan is at war with? There's a hotel that flies the flags of MI, the US, Germany, Canada, France, and a few other countries. Or how about the United Nations building in NYC. Every represented country has its flag flying outside, of the UN, an institution designed to hold the peace.

You sir, are an idiot. Flags are for identification and inherently serve a nationalistic purpose.

If you read the whole thread instead of being a troll you'd have noticed I was just making it to start a confrontational debate. Talk about owning yourself...

GTFO of here...

Oh snap. That **** is true yo, I was in dat thread.

[Armelius]

I think that statement was directed at me. So I will respond to that.

szhosain made an excellent point about ships at sea and using flags for signaling or identification, but before that flags were meant as war symbols or one faction against another. Now you can take the peaceful purpose of "Don't Tread On Me" symbolism or for peaceful purposes but I tend to believe it's more the traditional reasoning that flags were meant for warlike purposes and the only purpose with a pledge of allegiance to the flag would be for war. Otherwise you wouldn't pledge allegiance to a flag so that you would signal to someone else that you intend to not fight for your rights. Yet to see any pledge to a white flag.

WDRacing, I am rather lost in that other thread. Didn't see any post by you on page 3. So I take back what I said and just replace it by you are just avoiding it for the same reason as I. Oh, and I did make a point to read your post on page 2. That helped in making my response on that subject.

[smockers83]

You apparently didn't read my post except for, "You sir, are an idiot."

As I said, flags are for identification and inherently serve a nationalistic purpose, meaning they instill nationalism. The pledge is just part of that nationalism, not a war cry.

Flags used in classical times were for signaling and for identification, albeit during war at times, but still for signaling and identification. You may be confusing international maritime rules of flags for this war distinction.

[Armelius]

Let me see. We have two flags out of 50 or more. But only one flag we are going to pledge this allegiance to. I can only see that pledge meaning for one basic purpose and that is to come together for war (aggressive or defensive).

Now I may be mistaken and I am sure you will take the time to correct me as to why we don't pledge allegiance to our respective state flags or even local flags and symbols if we have them.

[szh]

szhosain made an excellent point about ships at sea and using flags for signaling or identification, but before that flags were meant as war symbols or one faction against another.

Ummm ... it was not just at sea. Semaphore flags to send messages (pre-telephone and telegraph) were used for communications over long distances. Teams of flag wavers passed critical messages along faster than horses could carry the written words.

Anyway, that is just a side-bar comment.

Z

[AZhitman]

Let me see.

I can only see that...

Now I may be mistaken...

You could have left it at this and been right on target.

[smockers83]

News flash, the Pledge of Allegiance is the nation's war cry. It makes the enemy poop in their pants when we have all of our kids reciting it at once.

[AZhitman]

News flash, the Pledge of Allegiance is the nation's war cry. It makes the enemy poop in their pants when we have all of our kids reciting it at once.

[Armelius]

Since it was written by a socialist and 1892 we were at war with Spain and historically the pledge is sort of militant in it's inception forcing children to do something in school then I would have to agree on it's military characteristics.

Bellamy salute.

Honestly I am either getting old and or tired or just don't care too much for politics.

[smockers83]

Except the pledge was written for celebration of Christopher Columbus Day, he who was funded by the Spanish. On top of that, the pledge was written and published in 1892 and the Spanish-American War was between April and August of 1898.

[Armelius]

Except the pledge was written for celebration of Christopher Columbus Day, he who was funded by the Spanish. On top of that, the pledge was written and published in 1892 and the Spanish-American War was between April and August of 1898.

Six years of pledging allegiance before they went and fought for the right to fly the flag in foreign lands. 1892 the same year Ellis Island was established for accommodating new immigrants.

Not sure what was so significant with June 22, 1942. Probably had something to do with Christopher Columbus as well.

To native americans then it would be telling that the flag and Oct. 12th "discovery" would mean that those who flew the flag were the only ones that had the right and the might to give land grants to the new immigrants.

[smockers83]

Umm, que?

[Armelius]

Guess I am getting tired. It is just symbolism. You could have bad or good politicians in front of the flag and since you have allegiance to the flag you might as well worship the politician as well.

Sort of like Coca-Cola or McDonalds. They don't have to tell you they serve unhealthy food but the symbolism makes it number one.

[smockers83]

What the hell are you talking about? Worship a politician? You're kidding, right?

Also in 1892, the British were fighting in Nigeria. What the hell does Ellis Island have to do with anything?

June 22, 1942 is when Congress passed the flag code. There doesn't have to be anything special about it.

Yes, the flag is symbolism, I already established that. It's a symbol of nationalism, one of the things that creates a nation.

[Armelius]

A flag isn't much different than having a king or queen if you have to pledge allegiance to it. Though a king or queen might make more sense.