The kind of stats the Dianne Sawyers of the world don't want to hear

[themadscientist]

Invade a home? plan to rape and kill the occupants? One problem, one of them is carrying and is going to put his 2nd ammendment rights to use.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/19365762/detail.html

Quote »COLLEGE PARK, Ga. -- A group of college students said they are lucky to be alive and they’re thanking the quick-thinking of one of their own. Police said a fellow student shot and killed one of two masked me who burst into an apartment.

Channel 2 Action News reporter Tom Jones met with one of the students to talk about the incident.

“Apparently, his intent was to rape and murder us all,” said student Charles Bailey.Bailey said he thought it was the end of his life and the lives of the 10 people inside his apartment for a birthday party after two masked men with guns burst in through a patio door.

“They just came in and separated the men from the women and said, ‘Give me your wallets and cell phones,’” said George Williams of the College Park Police Department.

Bailey said the gunmen started counting bullets. “The other guy asked how many (bullets) he had. He said he had enough,” said Bailey.

That’s when one student grabbed a gun out of a backpack and shot at the invader who was watching the men. The gunman ran out of the apartment.

The student then ran to the room where the second gunman, identified by police as 23-year-old Calvin Lavant, was holding the women.

“Apparently the guy was getting ready to rape his girlfriend. So he told the girls to get down and he started shooting. The guy jumped out of the window,” said Bailey.

A neighbor heard the shots and heard someone running nearby.

“And I heard someone say, ‘Someone help me. Call the police. Somebody call the police,’” said a neighbor.

The neighbor said she believes it was Lavant, who was found dead near his apartment, only one building away.

Bailey said he is just thankful one student risked his life to keep others alive.

“I think all of us are really cognizant of the fact that we could have all been killed,” said Bailey.

One female student was shot several times during the crossfire. She is expected to make a full recovery.

Police said they are close to making the arrest of the second suspect.[/quote]Your card is punched chump, good riddance to you. Thanks to a law-abiding armed citizen he cannot hurt anyone ever again.

[DJ Raijin]

I will always be a firm believer in an armed population. This just proves my ideas further.

[C-Kwik]

Then again:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30650051/

[themadscientist]

They seem like such amicable types, who would have thunk?

Quote »The Houston Chronicle reported that a sign in front of the suspects' home reads: "Trespassers will be shot. Survivers will be reshot!! Smile I will." [/quote]

[480sx]

The Houston Chronicle reported that a sign in front of the suspects' home reads: "Trespassers will be shot. Survivers will be reshot!! Smile I will."

These people just sucked.

This is also in Texas. The only state in the US that shooting people on your property at dark is legal.

[themadscientist]

If they will cover travel costs, I would be happy to fly over there and shoot those two on behalf of the people of Texas. I'm reasonably sure there are not at all happy about these characters.

[HashiriyaS14]

Despite the fact that I seem to get into it with people in all the 2nd Amendment threads, I remain, generally, very pro-carry. I love to see stories like this.

I read a statistic once that said a Floridian with a legal CCW was 840 times LESS likely to commit a violent crime than a random Floridian without a permit.

I happen to like open carry better than concealed, but admittedly, my utopian fantasies of open carry only work in a fictional environment where open carry is totally ubiquitous. CCW works better in the real world.

[themadscientist]

I know my state, and I suspect most states, require formal training to carry and I am all for that. I am not for gun registration but I am 100% behind background checks and I would like to see formal training as a requirement to purchase a gun regardless of intent to concealed carry.

[HashiriyaS14]

I know my state, and I suspect most states, require formal training to carry and I am all for that. I am not for gun registration but I am 100% behind background checks and I would like to see formal training as a requirement to purchase a gun regardless of intent to concealed carry.

^^I am generally for registration, although I'd accept registered CCW permits as a reasonable substitute for registered ownership permits. Otherwise, we're just about exactly on the same page, as I absolutely support the checks and the mandatory training.

That said, with those things in place, I think people should be able to own/carry just about whatever they want. It's no secret that legal registered gun owners/carriers perpetrate essentially NO crimes, statistically speaking, and their guns also tend not to wind up in the hands of those that do commit crimes. Because of this, I have no problem with a checked, permitted, and trained citizen carrying an MP5 in a briefcase if they really have a burr up their a$$ to do it, lol.

[themadscientist]

orly?

[HashiriyaS14]

orly?

^^That's exactly the rig I was talking about! I love that thing.

[themadscientist]

no exec should be without it.

[480sx]

CCW permit holders and gun holders in general can become heros in a quickness if you have the right judgment, opportunity and.. Aim 2nd amendment ftmfw.



This is more my style, although id rather toss on the 22 inch match grade barrel and long range scope..
Modified by 480sx at 1:26 PM 5/20/2009

[BusyBadger]

That's exactly the rig I was talking about! I love that thing.

And that MP5 setup always makes me think of the the Ares folding SMG.

There's nothing like concealing something in plain sight, for the ultimate in irony I'd have one airbrushed to look like a book of Edgar Allen Poe short stories with "The Purloined Letter" on the cover.

[themadscientist]

wouldn't "a call to arms" be more appropriate?

[Urabus GodofTraction]

This is also in Texas. The only state in the US that shooting people on your property at dark is legal.

A blatant lie.

I happen to like open carry better than concealed, but admittedly, my utopian fantasies of open carry only work in a fictional environment where open carry is totally ubiquitous. CCW works better in the real world.

Because concealed carrying has a habit of causing accidental shootings of little kids in the head on subways, right?

I'm glad you're coming around to seeing that in real life, CC works better.

[HashiriyaS14]

Because concealed carrying has a habit of causing accidental shootings of little kids in the head on subways, right?

I'm glad you're coming around to seeing that in real life, CC works better.

LOL!

I *think* you're mixing up our old arguments.

I was saying that carrying single-action semi-auto cocked was a good way to accidentally kill people. I'm not sure why open carry would inherently be any safer than concealed carry. You could carry SA cocked either open or CC.

If you feel motivated to go back through our old exchanges and determine that I'm wrong, I'll say ahead of time that I fully acknowledge this possibility, I don't claim to have infallible memory.

I have, however, come around to your (and others) argument that open carry allows bad guys to see where the guns are. This is why I said that my open-carry fantasies only work in a world where it is truly ubiquitous, i.e. EVERYONE is armed. Obviously if only 5 people out of 100 are packing, open carry makes it too easy to see who those 5 are. Yes, you have indeed won me over on this argument, 200%.

[WDRacing]

And that MP5 setup always makes me think of the the Ares folding SMG.

There's nothing like concealing something in plain sight, for the ultimate in irony I'd have one airbrushed to look like a book of Edgar Allen Poe short stories with "The Purloined Letter" on the cover.

An excellent idea sir

[BusyBadger]

I was saying that carrying single-action semi-auto cocked was a good way to accidentally kill people. I'm not sure why open carry would inherently be any safer than concealed carry. You could carry SA cocked either open or CC.

I used to carry in Condition One all the time and never had anything approaching an accidental discharge. More accidents actually occur when an SAO is in Condition Two.

Carrying in Condition One is something I wouldn't recommend for the majority of people out there and given the quality of DA/DAO pistols now I'm not sure that I would anymore either.

[4cefed]

^^I am generally for registration,

The problem is that registration is a step toward permits. Once there is a permit for something it is no longer a right, it is a privilege. We have the right to bear arms, not the "privilege" to bear arms. It will also generate a list of arms owned by citizens when they want you to start turning them in.

You can't deny that there are forces at work that want to eliminate all weapons from the face of the earth. They will try any method possible. Taking little steps toward something over a long period of time won't shock the masses. "yeah, seems reasonable..." or "what am I going to do about it?" are echoed at every little step. It will be death by 1000 papercuts.

By the way, do you know who was one of the first to suggest registering firearms? Adolf Hitler, 1935. If I remember correctly, things didn't work out too well for the Jews.

These are in fact very desperate times. There is no sense of direction or patriotism left in this country. We are now defined by our credit score and mired in our "comfort of living." Very few are willing to stand for something they believe in. The tide has turned in favor of the anits and the next 3 1/2 years may be very difficult. Sorry to soapbox, but I'm trying to get a few people to share my point of view that we DO NOT need any more laws, restrictions, taxes, "safety improvements," limits, or anything else that can be used as a tool to separate me from my weapons.

/soapbox

[HashiriyaS14]

The problem is that registration is a step toward permits. Once there is a permit for something it is no longer a right, it is a privilege. We have the right to bear arms, not the "privilege" to bear arms. It will also generate a list of arms owned by citizens when they want you to start turning them in.

Well, I feel like mandatory training would inch closer to the "permit" standard than registration would. I feel like registration would just just tie a name/face to each firearm, decreasing the likelihood that gun owners would allow their firearms to be used in any sort of criminal activity.

I've been through this discussion with a bunch of people here before though, so I'm not going to "Re-Hash" (LOL). My mind was changed on concealed carry, for sure, but I still don't *personally* see much of a problem in the government (at least state governments) knowing who owns guns, how many, and what kind. Ideally, that info wouldn't be accessible to the Federal government except with credible individual subpoena.

[themadscientist]

I don't want the government knowing who has what. I think it wise that it knows who is competent with one though, for our sakes. I would like to know a legally purchased weapon is being wielded by a proficient operator, how many he has is his business.

[4cefed]

Well, I feel like mandatory training would inch closer to the "permit" standard than registration would. I feel like registration would just just tie a name/face to each firearm, decreasing the likelihood that gun owners would allow their firearms to be used in any sort of criminal activity.

A valid point, however you are still being named as having arms.

I've been through this discussion with a bunch of people here before though, so I'm not going to "Re-Hash" (LOL). My mind was changed on concealed carry, for sure, but I still don't *personally* see much of a problem in the government (at least state governments) knowing who owns guns, how many, and what kind. Ideally, that info wouldn't be accessible to the Federal government except with credible individual subpoena.

Actually, it's a huge problem. Registration leads to confiscation. It's the first step. It may seem "sensible" now, but ten years from now if guns are outlawed, they simply tell you to turn in your arms or be arrested. They already have the lists and know who has what. The federal government would be the one with the lists, so who knows if they are illegally checking it or not? Who's watching the watchmen?

It probably won't be all at once either, for example, it may go like this: "OK, kids, today we are outlawing the Glock model 17 because they look scary, and police use them. So the below named individuals will turn them in or be arrested and have your life thrown away by the system."

I'm a little new to the politics section, and I've been reading through a lot of threads, it's nice to see discussion without people getting a sandy va-jay jay.

[HashiriyaS14]

Registration leads to confiscation.

^^Yeah, here's where I diverge. This is most definitely not a tripping point for me. Maybe I could see not letting the government know precisely how many firearms or precisely what kind, but I am unwavering in my assertion that at least state governments should know *who* is armed. My own opinion, others are equally entitled to theirs.

I've been through that discussion a million times on here though. I am absolutely not going to get into it again here. One of the few points I disagree with the "pro-2A" crowd on, but it seems to cause a lot of friction.

[4cefed]

^^Yeah, here's where I diverge. ... I disagree with the "pro-2A" crowd on, but it seems to cause a lot of friction.

It causes friction because it's been proven a few times. Canada, England, Germany, Australia, and Cuba just to name a few.

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/A...e=006

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/A...e=006

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/F...ID=28

Can't happen here you say? It already has:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

Like I said before, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect yours, however, my opinion is that any move toward more legislation, taxes, registration, or ordinances is a loss of freedom.

[themadscientist]

I don't know that registration leads 100% to confiscation but it undoubtedly would facilitate it which might embolden a government who otherwise would not try to do so, and that is why I am against it. Americans aren't English though, we will burn this muthaf***er down. I know if they came for mine, I would give them the bullets first.

[4cefed]

I know if they came for mine, I would give them the bullets first.

That's kind of the problem, you, me, and millions of other freedom loving Americans would do the same thing, but I think the antis have gotten a little smarter than that. They wouldn't come to you, they will make you come to them.

[themadscientist]

I'm a bad dog, I don't come when I'm called.

[HashiriyaS14]

Americans aren't English though, we will burn this muthaf***er down.

^^I completely agree, and frankly, this is a big reason why I don't worry about it too much. It's SUCH an important issue here, and Americans are so vocal and generally prone to activism that I just think such a large and powerful demographic (pro-2A people) can't get marginalized simply by virtue of being a large and powerful demographic. The Amendment is still enthusiastically defended by well more than half the population, probably more like 2/3 or even more.

But again, my opinion, ya'll got yours, let's leave it at that.

[themadscientist]

I would prefer we not have to activate the "BTMFD" plan and these sneaky bastards just leave it alone and go back to destroying the economy.