The Fail Build

[Chris28]

So I just rebuilt my engine and put a t25 on it. SSA mani, used t25, sr injectors, efi specialist tune, ebay intercooler piping, and for the rebuild a new oil pump, oversize pistons, got the block bored out, new bearings, new rings. Besides the rebuild part, the turbo stuff was basically a budget build.

After messing with my timing a whole bunch then realizing that it was 180 degrees off, it finally started. First of all, I'm retarded and didn't tighten down the intake cam sprocket bolt. This resulted in pretty good idling for about 2 minutes then the bolt backed out enough for the sprocket to come off the timing dowel. Engine shut off by itself, and I realized what had happened after spinning the crank pulley and realizing that the cam shafts weren't moving. After pulling the valve cover and front cover and setting my cam timing back to TDC compression, I put it all back together. Found TDC and set my distributor, and it started again after minor spark timing adjustments. I let it idle at around 1500 for 20 minutes, granted it was a little rough because timing wasn't spot on, then went to pull it into the garage to change the oil. As soon as the engine had load on it, the turbo freaked out. It started clacking, and the noise's speed went up with revs. Sounds like the compressor wheel hitting the housing. Awesome. Also, now that it has load, the not-on timing is very noticeable as it backfires and barely gets into the garage.

At this time I realize I have no lights. Headlights only. No dash lights, no brake lights, no rear tail lights, no hazards, turn signals, nothing. I said w/e, that can be fixed later.

I change the oil, reset my distributor timing, and went to start it up again. I was thinking maybe since the timing was so bad before that's why the turbo was spinning off center, because the entire engine was shaking so badly. I rev it a little, a slight knocking in the turbo, but not as bad as before. I pull out of my garage, noticing that under load the turbo barely knocks. So I have someone following me and I'm just taking the car around the block seeing if it works right.

After realizing that the knocking is still there, I am about to turn around, and i see flashing blue lights behind me. I have no hood,no front bumper, no front license plate, and no lights at all besides headlights. Also, to get to my ecu and engine harness and stuff, I took out my glovebox, which is still in the garage with my registration and insurance card. Even better, my license is in my moms car because I had to show it at advance auto to make a return and hadn't bothered putting it back in my wallet. I have my student ID which I show the cop, as well as my temporary license (wtf) from back when I had just gotten my license and didn't have my actual card yet, so I gave the cop that and explained what was up. He told me he could get me for a lot of stuff, including my "not good" exhaust. I just played it cool and he let me go saying not to drive the car until everything was fixed.

So I say thank you and go to drive off. When I'm back on my street, the motor starts knocking horribly. My e-fans aren't hooked up because I was only going on a quick trip around the block, so maybe it overheated in the 5 minutes I was sitting there waiting on the cop.

Basically tonight sucked. My freshly rebuilt engine doesn't run right and might be toast. My t25 is most likely blown, but I'm not even sure it's getting oil so that could be the main issue right there. I don't even know if the rest of the engine is getting oil, cause if it's not overheating what would cause the horrible knocking noise I heard?

I guess tomorrow I'll set my timing right with a timing gun and check my oil lines to see of they have oil in them, but at this point I'm pretty pissed off at this car right now. Sorry for the rant.

[lrb_2000]

You need an oil pressure gauge apparently....

Did you put the engine together yourself? That sucks dude. It took me FOREVER to get my rebuilt engine started. Anyways, you should always disconnect the oil drain, and crank your engine over until you see oil come out of it, to ensure your turbo is getting oil. Not doing that, and having no oil pressure gauge probably isn't the best idea.. I hope everything works out.

I got impatient when I first started my car too.. no front end ect.. drove about 5 blocks and my front wheel screwing fell right off and rolled a half mile down the road haha..

[WDRacing]

All cars whether rebuilt or brand new...don't make knocking noises unless something is wrong and/or broken. If it's shaking and making noises...for the love of GOD...DON'T DRIVE IT ANYWHERE.

Check the turbo for shaft play. If it moves more then a little bit, remove and either rebuild it or get a new one. DON'T DRIVE IT...

Pull and clean the plugs.

Redo the timing.

Check your compression.

Start her up and check for leaks and noise. Either is bad...

WD

[Chris28]

Yeah, I should have turned it over until I saw oil coming out. I do have an oil pressure gauge, but it's not hooked up. Today I'll see if anything was getting oil, then get my timing right.

I built the engine myself, so that could be magnifying the problems. I'll try and get a video of the knocking noises that it is making, maybe someone could identify them.

Thanks though.

[Ekinchheng]

Maybe the motor is pinging, I would check that timing agian. I'm also in the process of building my ka-t, just need to bring it to the machine shop.

[WDRacing]

I suggest turning it over with a drill...pull the plugs so as to relieve compression. Then turn the motor over by hand until oil comes out the drain line of the turbo. Or the pressure line, which ever is easier.

[oz240red]

That sucks man.....sorry about your fresh built engine. Maybe when the sprocket came loose the chain jumped a tooth or something. I would go back to square one and revise the timing. Are you sure the noise is due to only the turbo?

A lot of times it takes a second and a third look to figure out that you skipped a step or something is out of spec.

I'm with WD, don't drive it until you get a smooth idle. Putting load on the turbo with incorrect timing might make you go super lean and damage your rings. Chances are the car will not even out by driving it if at idle it's not running smooth.

Patience my man... you'll figure it out

[Chris28]

Well I think I figure it out. Rod Knock. I have a video so you all can verify it, but I'm almost positive that it is rod knock. I don't know how it could be knocking so soon, I know i torqued everything in the block correctly, brand new oil pump, unless maybe my timing was soooo off that when it was sparking before TDC the shock may have spun a rod bearing? What is involved with rod knock? I mean I know I'll have to take the engine out of the car, but is there a way to just take off the oil pan and fix it from the bottom, or should I look at getting different engine? Thanks for the replies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNe-YrUny8M

As for the turbo, it was getting oil. I took off the feed line and cranked the engine over by hand, and oil was coming out. I guess it's just shot. I'll probably look around for a cheap t25 or t28, but I'm not sure I want a used one anymore.

[esahuque]

Sorry dude, thats rod knock, or piston slapping a bent valve but sounds more like rod knock to me. Did you use assembly lube when putting the motor together?

[480sx]

Theres no quick fix to that man.. You gotta pull that motor. Not even worth pulling the pan off and checking things out, something is fvked already.

Did you check you clearances when you built the motor?
Modified by 480sx at 11:44 AM 1/5/2009

[Chris28]

Theres no quick fix to that man.. You gotta pull that motor. Not even worth pulling the pan off and checking things out, something is fvked already.

Did you check you clearances when you built the motor?

Modified by 480sx at 11:44 AM 1/5/2009

Yeah, I figured there was no quick fix. If I even feel like taking this motor apart again I'll bring the crank and rods to a machine shop to have them fix it all. I didn't check clearances because I figured if I put everything back together the way it came out, save for the new bearings, it would be ok. At this point I'll probably find a running de from someone and swap over all my turbo parts, probably a fel-pro headgasket and my arp head studs before I put that engine in. Anyone know if a single slammer bottom end will bolt up to the DE's head?

I did use assembly lube for all the bearings and rotating parts, but I guess that didn't matter. I should have let a shop build the engine.

If my rod bolts were stretched out of spec when I put everything back together, would that have promoted spinning a bearing?

I go back to school tomorrow, so the car will sit for a while like this, until next time I come home and feel like messing with it.

[480sx]

Rod bolts dont stretch simply by TQing them down, they stretch when load is applied to the rods and they are hot.

What kind of torque wrench did you use? What did you torque the rods down to? Did you make sure you put the matching cap with each rod?

When something like this happens, im the type of person who has to know why it happened or else it truly is a complete waste. Some lessons are harsh, expensive, but still a good learning experience. Gotta pay for most educations heh. Yours simply might be, let a machine shop do what it does best and pay the man for what he knows. Not trying to be an *** or anything.

[Chris28]

Lol no offense taken. I'm definitely going to figure out what went wrong, but I'm not sure if I'm going to be the ones putting it all back together.

Here's my plan. Next time I'm home I'll pull the engine and figure out what happened. Take the crank to a machine shop, have them turn it/whatever they do, just make sure it's back in spec. I'll also bring them the rods and let them see if they are ok. During re-assembly, I'll use arp rod bolts and most likely bigger bearings because the crank was turned.

Reading the FSM now, I realize that the rods go back into their respective cylinders. I thought I kept them in order, but I didn't realize the number was stamped on the side both halves of the connecting rod. I'll check that when I pull the engine.

I used a Craftsman digitork torque wrench, and torqued them down to 33 ft-lbs.

It was an expensive lesson, yes, but you are right I learned a whole lot from it haha. This was the first time I've ever taken apart a car engine, and in fact I'm surprised it ran at all. My lack of knowledge led to it's failure, but you lived and learn. I'll be eager to work on it again next time I can.

PS should I look into getting new rods, or do you think as long as they are checked by a machine shop these ones are still fine?

[480sx]

Most likely at least one is smoked. You will notice this by the cap being a bluish color when you take it apart, showing you it had overheated. I would never use a rod thats been overheated, just asking for trouble.

Its usually cheaper to pick up a used crank from a part out than it is to get one turned, but its up to you. Buying used stuff theres a chance of getting junk. In addition, you dont know the state that the rest of your engine is in, it could be a complete KO. With that kinda knocking theres a chance that a lot of powdered metal went through your engine. You might be better off just buying a used Ka and rebuilding that. You'll never know till you tear it apart though.

You can pick up used ka rods for next to nothing, i think i might have a couple sets of them that are still in good condition im not sure though.

[kouki_hmongster]

Sorry, repost

[kouki_hmongster]

i have my motor done by machine shop but forgot to tell him to swap the cam shafts around since they're BC cams made for FWD and RWD, so i have to tow the car 2 hrs to shop to get it swap and should start .

i know how you're feeling and i hope the best for your next build. i'm also trying to build another motor that i have w/ blown head and it takes a lot of work and research. again GL

[Chris28]

Yeah, I guess I'm in the market for another ka now. When I get it I'll swap my head over along with my arp studs, my oil pump, and i guess get a fel pro hg. ETA is now summer 09 lol.

Anyone know of a spare DE being sold?

[musashin]

**** dude, that sucks. I was lookin forward to takin a ride in this thing before I went back to school!

[Chris28]

Haha yeah, it does. I found a new engine in va beach for 250, so I'll just put my new oil pump on it, as well as my decked head, arp studs, and a fel-pro head gasket. I'll get an ebay t28 or something and take it easy for a while.

Problem with the va beach engine is that I'm back at school, and the engine will probably be gone before I get back home. Oh well, there will be others.

[BigBirdRacing]

Man that really sucks. When I got my motor built I went through two headgaskets (first one being a cometic), another new head due to off brand crappy timing chain. But nothing as serious as the bottom end sorry for the loss.