The Export of Jobs

[audtatious]

Mr. Obama's remedy could hurt more workers than it helps.http://www.washingtonpost.com/....htmlSunday, August 17, 2008; Page B06

BARACK OBAMA says that he would "end tax breaks for corporations that ship jobs overseas" and blasts John McCain for refusing to condemn such loopholes. But the offshoring issue is more complicated than Mr. Obama's rhetoric suggests. Indeed, while there's no doubt that some individuals and communities are hurt by corporate decisions to shift manufacturing or other operations overseas, overall job creation may well benefit. Economists Mihir Desai, Fritz Foley and James Hines looked at U.S. manufacturers that expanded foreign operations between 1982 and 2004 and found that they tended to grow domestically as well, hiring more U.S. employees, paying them more and spending more on research. "While there may be considerable individual variation," they concluded, "the average experience of all U.S. manufacturing firms over the last two decades is inconsistent with the simple story that all foreign expansions come at the cost of reduced domestic activity."

Mr. Obama is correct that U.S. tax policy favors American companies operating overseas: Income earned abroad is not subject to immediate taxation, as domestic income is. However, it's not clear that the tax code -- as opposed to other factors, such as lower wages or technological advances -- plays a big role in companies' decisions to move jobs elsewhere or that leveling the playing field between foreign and domestic income, as Mr. Obama proposes, would do much to save or return jobs to the United States. Mr. Obama's proposal would change the provision in which U.S.-based companies don't have to pay taxes on their earnings abroad until that income is "repatriated" -- brought back into the United States, for example as dividend payments. This deferral is meant to protect U.S. companies from being disadvantaged compared to foreign competitors operating under much lower corporate tax rates. However, this encourages U.S. companies to invest in foreign countries with lower taxes. It also gives companies an incentive to shift around income so that it is attributed to the lowest-taxing jurisdictions, draining the federal Treasury of potential revenue.

Mr. Obama has not been precise about how he would alter the rules other than to say he would end "permanent deferral" of income abroad. One possibility would be to let corporations delay paying tax on foreign income for a set time or on a share of the income. This would diminish, to some extent, the competitiveness problems the change would create. So would a reduction in the overall corporate tax rate, something Mr. Obama has said that he would consider so long as it could be done as part of a package without losing revenue. Nonetheless, U.S. companies operating abroad already labor under a bigger tax burden than most foreign competitors. Mr. Obama's suggested fix would make it even harder for them to compete abroad -- ultimately hurting workers and others here.

[skylndrftr]

so an unsigned editorial from the washington post is no fact.

Does anyone voting for McCain have an opinion backed up by fact or is it just a swirling mass of citing other people opinions?

[audtatious]

Go get the Washington Post and turn to page B06, DUH

[skylndrftr]

so I need to buy things no to source out your stories?

[audtatious]

Send an eMail to the Wash Post then. They published it on their website and they published it in their newspaper. I didn't notice the author was not listed when I read it or I would have not posted it because you and Ish will simply deflect like you always do. Even if the author was listed you would deflect it and call it lies to suit yourself so it's a moot point.

[smockers83]

One thing you and ish need to learn how to do is do a little research on your own. We aren't here to teach you guys everything. How is this source not "sourced"? Its cited here and it cites sources within the piece. What else do you want?

Here is the paradox of Obama's tax plan. Obama wants to cut taxes on middle America. Obama also wants to increase taxes on businesses and corporate America. Taxing business more creates less incentive to invest in the business, which means jobs will be cut. Who's jobs? Middle America's jobs, that's who. So you may be helping them out with a tax cut, but you're also threatening them with job losses. That's a really good way to help them out and create "hope" and "change". And no, I don't need to cite that because its basic economics and if you want to learn about it, go ahead and do it on your own time, not mine.

Businesses thrive with low taxes and that means more workers. Businesses don't thrive with high taxes and that means less workers. We've already seen this in our very own economy in years past and we have some of the highest corporate rates in the world if I'm not mistaken. And we wonder why jobs are leaving? Taxes are part of it, cheaper labor in relative terms is part of it, movement of capital is part of it. But that's economics and we should use comparative advantage and we will all be better off.

[audtatious]

One thing you and ish need to learn how to do is do a little research on your own. We aren't here to teach you guys everything. How is this source not "sourced"? Its cited here and it cites sources within the piece. What else do you want?.

This is a game we play. I post an article I find interesting and he starts looking at those who wrote the article in order to find a reason to dismiss it. Since the author of the editorial is not listed he finds that as the reason itself. As far as research I've done lots over the last few months and based upon their responses have determined I'm wasting my time formulating my own threads so I play their game and post random stuff.

[rn79870]

BARACK OBAMA says that he would "end tax breaks for corporations that ship jobs overseas" and blasts John McCain for refusing to condemn such loopholes....

Mr. Obama is correct that U.S. tax policy favors American companies operating overseas: Income earned abroad is not subject to immediate taxation, as domestic income is....

Mr. Obama's suggested fix would make it even harder for them to compete abroad --

Okay, I'll address the article... I think you're source was confused when s/he wrote it. If you carefully parse the article, s/he's all but endorsing Obama.

[audtatious]

If you squint your eyes and tilt your head a certain way then I'm sure even a lemon can look like a peach.

Wow, look, you are doing it

[skylndrftr]

One thing you and ish need to learn how to do is do a little research on your own. We aren't here to teach you guys everything. How is this source not "sourced"? Its cited here and it cites sources within the piece. What else do you want?

I'm working on debunking it in the few spare mintues I have at work today...meanwhile, I don't sign up for websites (includnign the washingtonpost) if it isn't necessary. As noted earleir though, it appears to be unsigned (and bugmenot doesn't have a working post login)

[96Qowner]

Sign up?

Or just ckick on the link. No need to sign up.

[OriginalWheelman]

If this happens, all they will do is move their corporate HQ overseas and no longer call themselves an American company. When you're dealing in international business you need to realize you're not the only place in the world for Corps to reside. Look at cruise lines. They were all registered in the Bahamas for years to avoid US regulations. So whats to stop a corporation from taking their HQ out of the country and taking our comfortable white collar jobs with them? You don't bite the hand that feeds. The companies that everyone likes to vilify are the foundation of our economy. If people don't have jobs they don't pay taxes, and they don't buy goods and services to keep the other companies going.

[smockers83]

I'm working on debunking it in the few spare mintues I have at work today...meanwhile, I don't sign up for websites (includnign the washingtonpost) if it isn't necessary. As noted earleir though, it appears to be unsigned (and bugmenot doesn't have a working post login)

You don't need to log in to view this, the link is right there.

Alright, then here's what you do. Debunk it and then come talk to us, don't make uninformed attacks just because you think you disagree. This is a trend/habit, a bad one at that. This is one of your problems and provides a lot of discredit to yourself.

[telcoman]

Go get the Washington Post and turn to page B06, DUH

You'll get better news here

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08...login

Set a season pass on the Tivo

Telcoman

[OriginalWheelman]

You'll get better news here

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08...login

Set a season pass on the Tivo

Telcoman

Partisan'd! Draw the line again! Quick! Before we forget how wrong we are!

[skylndrftr]

You don't need to log in to view this, the link is right there.

the link displays no information on who wrote this and any click off of that link seems to require a login.

Wheelman, the simple solution to that problem is make it not matter. We need to act on the companies doign business here not just those based here. If thats your big concern though you might want to write your reps and senators about Haliburton moving to Dubai with our tax dollars

[OriginalWheelman]

I'm not going to argue this with you as you obviously have no concept of how businesses work. You proved that with what you just said.

[srellim234]

For those of you who want to argue over the fact that the editorial writer is not named, perhaps you should look up the definition of what the word means. An editorial reflects the opinion of the editors, the publication's viewpoint, etc. It is NOT a reflection of the personal opinion or even neccessarily the work of a writer who agrees with the position.

Editorials are the position of the organization based on the facts as they see them. Facts can and are often presented in editorials and often the sources of those facts are identified. Whether they are presented in an editorial or a standard article is irrelevant if they can be verified.

What makes it an editorial is the conclusion, the opinion, and the identity of the specific writer is pointless.

[rn79870]

If you squint your eyes and tilt your head a certain way then I'm sure even a lemon can look like a peach.

Wow, look, you are doing it

Yep, I see the lemon and I see the peach.

[smockers83]

I'm not going to argue this with you as you obviously have no concept of how businesses work. You proved that with what you just said.

Hence

Alright, then here's what you do. Debunk it and then come talk to us, don't make uninformed attacks just because you think you disagree. This is a trend/habit, a bad one at that. This is one of your problems and provides a lot of discredit to yourself.

One thing you and ish need to learn how to do is do a little research on your own. We aren't here to teach you guys everything.

Has this become a Magic Eye book now?

[Qwerty1942]

Mr. Obama's remedy could hurt more workers than it helps.

Well, anything "could" happen. Aliens"could" land on Earth tomorrow, we "could" be nuked tomorrow, we "could" be hit by a giant asteroid tomorrow and be wiped out...

get the point? just because something "could" happen doesn't mean it will.