The Downfall of Musharraf and what it may mean for the War on Terror...

[heliochrome85]

http://english.aljazeera.net/n....html

Im very worried about the next phase in Pakistani politics. With them having nuclear weapons, and a tendency to get cranky with the indians, can we really rely on pakistan to help us in the war on terror?

[96Qowner]

I'm not so sure Pakistan has actually been helping us with the war on terror. They basically have no control over Waziristan or the North-West Frontier Province, and never have.

The best that can be said is that Musharraf has been containing the Taliban as well as he can, has been tolerating our interference in Afghanistan's affairs, and has successfully resisted attempts to kill him and destabilize the government.

An unstable Pakistani government would be a disaster.

[AZhitman]

Some of the comments after that article make me wonder if these people know what the hell they're talking about...

"AhmedUganda 18/08/2008 Goodbye Musharaf! It has been a great time that you ruled Pakistan but You failed one thing which is "not supporting the Islam" and Allah will ask you that in the Hereafter. You supported America in killing the Muslims and destroying their properties and resources. my advice to you is ask forgiveness from Allah and the Muslims. You were a wonderful president who took so many challenging decisions where other presidents failed to take."

[skylndrftr]

I'm not so sure Pakistan has actually been helping us with the war on terror. They basically have no control over Waziristan or the North-West Frontier Province, and never have.

I tend to agree with that. From what I see, I feel like the policies of Bush and Musharraf have most likely created more terrorists, and built support for them than done anythign to actually help.

[szh]

Some of the comments after that article make me wonder if these people know what the hell they're talking about...

Most of them don't.

"AhmedUganda 18/08/2008 Goodbye Musharaf! It has been a great time that you ruled Pakistan but You failed one thing which is "not supporting the Islam" and Allah will ask you that in the Hereafter. You supported America in killing the Muslims and destroying their properties and resources. my advice to you is ask forgiveness from Allah and the Muslims. You were a wonderful president who took so many challenging decisions where other presidents failed to take."

This guy certainly does not have a clue! Too darn easy for this person to talk about this without knowing the facts. Most of the posts were from people not even in the country, who do not understand the local politics, etc., and do not know what they were talking about.

Z

[szh]

I'm not so sure Pakistan has actually been helping us with the war on terror. They basically have no control over Waziristan or the North-West Frontier Province, and never have.

Correct. No one has ever had any control over that region.

The best that can be said is that Musharraf has been containing the Taliban as well as he can, has been tolerating our interference in Afghanistan's affairs, and has successfully resisted attempts to kill him and destabilize the government.

That is a good characterization.

Plus, a clear indicator of his personal honesty and what he tried to achieve, was indeed the outcome of the last election, where the party supporting him, lost! How often do you see that in a dictatorship?

IAn unstable Pakistani government would be a disaster.

Yes, I agree with that. Musharraf was a stabilizing influence and I certainly wish he were not departing.

However, don't jump to conclusions that all governments there are inherently unstable. Change is something that does happen ... very similar to other countries where we don't worry about it as much ... even when it occurs often.

My only concern would be if too hard-core (i.e., not as willing to compromise) a person or party came into power - one who might not, frankly, be as rationally balanced and centrist as Musharraf was. Regardless of how the media likes to portray him (and, yes, he was not elected the first time), he was not a dictator in the sense of that word - he had to juggle things a lot to make it all work out. His was not a totalitarian regime ... as is often, mistakenly, made out to be.

Z

[szh]

From what I see, I feel like the policies of Bush and Musharraf have most likely created more terrorists, and built support for them than done anythign to actually help.

Hmmm ... that is not as clear and obvious as you might think.

After 911, there was a tremendous amount of support - in all those countries - for the US. Regardless of what you might believe from the media reports and regardless of what the extremists said (who were given far too much airtime than they deserved frankly).

In many cases, we used that support and achieved a lot. Including the indirect support (probably the best that could be received from those governments) when we went into Afghanistan chasing bin Laden. Basically: public castigation and private support for that effort.

But, we eroded this goodwill rapidly when we invaded Iraq. That was not portrayed (initially) as a War on Terror and the stated reasons, WMDs, did not turn up. I think my current feeling is perhaps similar to what Colin Powell feels (but I do not speak for him obviously): we were misled by the "evidence" of WMDs.

(Sidebar: I wish we had not invaded Iraq, because I am opposed to non-self-defense wars. This was an aggressive act against another country - no matter what its problems might have been. But, I continue to support the US and the military folks who had to carry out the effort).

Given his rationality and his honesty, Musharraf had no choice but to support the US in searching for terrorists after 911. And, I think we would have continued to get support for this effort ... unfortunately, Musharraf (among many others) was undermined by the political and public backlash after the US entry into Iraq.

But, Musharraf did not do himself any favors either - the attempt to jail the Supreme Court head could only have had one outcome (but that was not a "war on terror" issue). BTW, I believe some of the allegations against that Judge ... he isn't as pristine an individual as had been made out to be!

Now, as to whether their actions have created more terrorists, I am not so sure that we can be that unequivocal. At best, we can say "Maybe".

Separately, I believe that if we had used the money spent on the Iraq war effort (or even a significant fraction of it), on humanitarian and eduction efforts (in and outside the US), it would have been a far better way to fight terrorism! Over a trillion dollars actual so far (and an estimated two more trillion dollars to go in other related spending) is a lot of wasted capital.

Z

[AZhitman]

^ ...and as far as I'm concerned, that's Gospel.

Thanks Z. Always educational.