The Cliff

[bigbadberry3]

Anyone doing anything different with their investing? I am holding off until this debacle plays out.

I am glad to see the this Norquist shenanigans is finally coming to an end. (TY for republicans for moving slightly towards the center )

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11 ... al-crisis/

Also, what would you like to realistically see come out of this? Anarchists speak up

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

Dunno, but I now own 8oz in gold coins instead of a mutual fund >.>

[themadscientist]

You have more control over your gold than Germany.

[bigbadberry3]

Dunno, but I now own 8oz in gold coins instead of a mutual fund >.>

If you don't mind me asking, what did you buy at?

[WDRacing]

I'd like to see us go over the cliff. So far that's the only plan that includes actual cutting from the budget. Congress isn't going to pass anything even close to a balanced budget, they don't have the will to do so. They're hung up, on both sides, with worry about political suicide. If we were actually serious about cutting the deficit no one would talking about the fiscal cliff. The fiscal cliff is just a term created so that the sheeple will be scared. Scared sheeple are easier to control.

What sheeple should be talking about about is the opposite. What happens when we never pass a balanced budget? For one, by 2016 we'll be paying over 500 billion, that's 500,000,000, annually in interest payments on borrowed money. That's 5 times more money then we spent in Afghanistan in 2011. That's 8.7 times what we spend on our children's education. Until the budget is balanced, which can't be done by tax increases, the number we pay in interest just gets higher, making any possible cuts to the budget in order to achieve said balance harder and harder.

All this talk about reducing the budget deficit is nothing but smoke and mirrors. You can't fiddle f*** your way into budgeting 1.2 trillion of annual loss. That's a failed business model.

No one side to blame here. Both are completely inept and have utterly failed to perform their most basic function. The only things "we the people" have received are a solid brain washing that we need the Gov to run our lives for us and loss of our civil liberties.

[Marenta]

You'll find, though, that there are quite a bit more people on both sides saying "Let's compromise and get this done!" I just wish it were true. If the Super Committe had from August until November in 2011 to come up with a plan, what makes them think that they could work a deal out in less than a month? I mean seriously! Hell, the Super Committe even had the Gang of Six plan all laid out and spelled out for them in black and white and they still couldn't come up with an agreement in 4 months.

But, the only way that they're going to truly work together and fix s*** is if they end up not working it out and we do go over this "fiscal cliff" thingie.

[stebo0728]

There's no time. We WILL be going off the cliff, the only problem is, we can't see just how far down the ground is until we go off. Personally I'm not too upset, America voted for what they wanted, and avoiding the cliff was NOT their priority, so lets just see how it pans out eh? I'm of the mind that the cliff won't necessarily be the worst thing ever, and could in fact work out pretty well in the long run, an incentive to actually get serious about some entitlement cuts.

Personally, I hope that Boehner gets the boot as majority leader, I think that puts Ryan in contention as replacement, and I think that could work out pretty well. I am hearing whispers that the Dems may actually try to champion realistic entitlement reform. If so, that's just fine with me, I don't care who gets the credit for it, it just needs to get done. I don't see Ryan stonewalling quite as hard as Boehner has.

And can we please get things straight with the damned debt ceiling? Its not something that should even be up for debate. Once we TAKE OUT a debt, we have to pay it. The YES/NO vote needs to come at the loan closing, not at the due date of the first payment!

[R/T Hemi]

Good gawd Stebo, you talk like this Cliff is a partisan issue. It's time you started roasting the asses of those who aren't moving towards a solution instead of worrying about some stupid pledge they sighed when King Solomon was in power.

[stebo0728]

Have you not been paying attention the past 20 or so years? EVERYTHING is a partisan issue anymore. And I'm not the one fooling myself to think Obummer has anything new to say, or any new feelings of compromise in his loins. I do want to roast the a**es of those not moving toward a solution. The problem is, we don't have a spit large enough to roast the largest of the obstructionists, Obummer himself. As obstructionist as Congress has been, the president has set firmly on a "my way or the highway" attitude, despite what he teleprompter tells him to say at public gatherings.

[stebo0728]

And don't get me wrong on this either. I'm not saying that I'm conceding that liberal idealogy is correct. I'm just done trying to fight it intellectually. Liberals seem to be mostly the type that only learn by seeing, not by reading. So, I'm ready to let them see what their policies look like in their final form. Im ready for the rest of America to see too, and I pray that it doesn't take us as long as it took Europe to realize that they are the policies of failure.

[R/T Hemi]

Have you not been paying attention the past 20 or so years? EVERYTHING is a partisan issue anymore. And I'm not the one fooling myself to think Obummer has anything new to say, or any new feelings of compromise in his loins. I do want to roast the a**es of those not moving toward a solution. The problem is, we don't have a spit large enough to roast the largest of the obstructionists, Obummer himself. As obstructionist as Congress has been, the president has set firmly on a "my way or the highway" attitude, despite what he teleprompter tells him to say at public gatherings.

What are you upset about? His refusal to budge on tax cuts for the wealthy? Share with me here.

[WDRacing]

Increasing tax revenue by increasing the rates of the 250k+club doesn't even come close to balancing the budget.

All that is going on right now is the taking, by our Gov, more money from United States citizens. You need to stop looking at people that make more than 250k as different then you and I. They are citizens of OUR country. If you can't view them as the same, you need to to take a long look at your own jealousy at the success of others. You shouldn't be celebrating the over taxation of people. The fact that you're obviously happy that successful people are being over taxed to fund more Gov spending speaks volumes about your character dude.

Where is your outcry for budget cutting? Stop being part of the problem for a change.

[stebo0728]

Have you not been paying attention the past 20 or so years? EVERYTHING is a partisan issue anymore. And I'm not the one fooling myself to think Obummer has anything new to say, or any new feelings of compromise in his loins. I do want to roast the a**es of those not moving toward a solution. The problem is, we don't have a spit large enough to roast the largest of the obstructionists, Obummer himself. As obstructionist as Congress has been, the president has set firmly on a "my way or the highway" attitude, despite what he teleprompter tells him to say at public gatherings.

What are you upset about? His refusal to budge on tax cuts for the wealthy? Share with me here.

What I have a problem with, is the tired old rhetoric. Everytime the man gets in front of a mic, if he has his teleprompter there, he gives the same old tired speech. And somehow the left finds a way to fawn over it as if its new material. The word cloud for every speech he gives would look nearly the same. Yes I take issue with his lack of open minded consideration of this "rich only" tax hikes. He has admitted, on the record mind you, that its not about revenue, its about fairness. He aknowledged that such a move would REDUCE revenue, but would be the "fair" thing to do. Look at the CBO study that came out a week or so ago, that shows projected GDP growth, it shows that GDP will grow 1.20% if the middle class cuts are extended, but would grow 1.25% if ALL the tax cuts were extended. But no, lets be "fair", whatever that means. Buzz words like "fair", and "greed" have no meaning in a logical conversation. They are words that belong in the same pile as "racism" and "poverty".

How many times must the unavoidable fact that you're beloved tax hike will barely manage to pay the INTEREST on our debt, much less budge the debt itself. How many times, this is why I say, liberals can't learn by reading facts, they have to see them in action. You can't read a book that tells you what gravity does, you have to see the apple fall for yourself. Well, lets make the apple fall dammit, I'm tired of beating my head against the wall trying make the wealth envy crowd see reason. Lets just let your fantasy play out, and then maybe we'll have something to salvage when its over. Unfortunately, I'm rooted where I am due to child custody issues, or I'd have already formulated an escape plan. Now I have to commit to being one of the patriots to help clean the mess up when the dust settles.

This nation is in need of a liver transplant, we've allowed entitlement cirrhosis to kill our liver, by far too often getting drunk on the dime of the producers. Entitlement reform, and I mean serious, gut check type entitlement reform is the new liver. Tax reform is the stitches and the gauze. You guys man up and give us the liver, and then we'll be there to stitch the wound.

[szh]

Increasing tax revenue by increasing the rates of the 250k+club doesn't even come close to balancing the budget.

Yes!

And, as I have shown in other posts, even a 100% tax rate - i.e., take all their money - and you still will not balance the budget.

The "tax the rich" folks are math-challenged.

Z

[telcoman]

Anyone doing anything different with their investing? I am holding off until this debacle plays out.
Also, what would you like to realistically see come out of this? Anarchists speak up

This cliff could become a great buying opportunity.

I'm hoping Obama does not back down. Let all the Bush tax cuts expire on 12/31.

The Senate has already passed a bill that gives extends the Bush tax cuts to those earning less than $250k

The republicans thus far have refused to sign off to extend the tax cuts unless the millionaires and billionaires are included. I say F em. Let the cliff happen and then lets see who refuses to give those cuts to those earning less than $250k. They can then be targeted to vote them out of office when they come up for reelection.

Telcoman

[WDRacing]

The people making less then 250k need to be paying more. Let the cliff happen and let everyone deal with it. Only then will the stupid people of this country realize that our Gov needs to stop spending all of our money. If you don't have a horse in the race it's easy to turn a blind eye to the abuse of our Gov.

People that make under 20,000/annual should be the only ones not paying any taxes. The rest should be paying into the kitty. Crank up the 250k+ club to 39%, that's fine, but close the child credit, home owners credit, and the thousands of other credits that don't need to exist. No loop holes, no credits.

When we do that, the people will wonder where all their money is going. Until then, the sheeple will continue to elect those that will reward them with the most stuff.

[themadscientist]

You all voted for this so stew in it. We did not get to this point over night. The American electorate has been asleep at the wheel for decades and getting pissy about this "crisis" doesn't give you street cred.

Where were you ten years ago? Should have listened to the "kook."

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifJG_oFFDK0[/youtube]

"Sheeple" eh? I like how some here think they are less herd like than the others. You are all milling around happily inside the fence fighting over scraps. The only time you ever agree is when you try to convince the few trying to tear down the fence that your patch of grass in the pen is somehow better than freedom and responsibility.

This is your fault, all of you. Quit whining and take your well-deserved a** raping because you voted for it. Voted for Obama, you voted for rape with more tearing on the right side of the anal cavity. Voted for Romney, you voted for rape with more tearing on the left; that's the only difference.

STFU, Pick a spot on the wall and just let it happen because the time to change the course of this country has long since passed. Well done everyone.





Sorry guys. We messed up the thing you gave us.

[R/T Hemi]

Everyone is sort of on the same page here, almost anyway. No one is saying there don't need to be cuts in spending. No one is arguing that the tax situation is burdening the middle and lower classes unfairly. Hell, add a buck tax to the price of each item we're importing from China and I'm betting the debt will shrink real fast.

Interesting Elmo graphic. Do I read that correctly, did the debt start spiraling upward in the Bush II administration? Why is that I wonder?

[WDRacing]

This is your fault, all of you. Quit whining and take your well-deserved a** raping because you voted for it. Voted for Obama, you voted for rape with more tearing on the right side of the anal cavity. Voted for Romney, you voted for rape with more tearing on the left; that's the only difference.

Oh save me your holier than thou BS Mike. I wasn't pro-Romney until he was the only other alternative to Obama. Never once have I said RP wouldn't have been the best choice. How many times have I said I was tired of voting for the lesser of two poopyhead? More then I want to remember.

[Marenta]

Probably would have been better off with Neil Degrasse Tyson and Bill Nye in the whitehouse.

I want to see more STEM politicians. Progress is the only thing scientists care about.

[WDRacing]

Ha...Bill Nye ftw!

[stebo0728]

I liked Bill Nye before his melt down a few months ago, aimed at people who believe in Intelligent Design. Regardless of your belief, his behavior was way below par for his normal self.

[bigbadberry3]

I liked Bill Nye before his melt down a few months ago, aimed at people who believe in Intelligent Design. Regardless of your belief, his behavior was way below par for his normal self.

He was provoked by the other people on that panel IMO. Why not throw some hard facts around since they are, facts,

[stebo0728]

One thing I liked about Bill Nye, he never seemed condescending as many scientist seem to be on issues they consider settled. NDT, as much as love the guy, is very much condescending in the way he approaches anyone who dare question his holy subset of facts. Until recently, I never considered Bill Nye to be this way. He proved me wrong. Provocation aside, condescension is unbecoming.

[bigbadberry3]

One thing I liked about Bill Nye, he never seemed condescending as many scientist seem to be on issues they consider settled. NDT, as much as love the guy, is very much condescending in the way he approaches anyone who dare question his holy subset of facts. Until recently, I never considered Bill Nye to be this way. He proved me wrong. Provocation aside, condescension is unbecoming.

What does NDT mean, longhand lol.

I would agree condescending is never a good method, but when push comes to shove....

[stebo0728]

One thing I liked about Bill Nye, he never seemed condescending as many scientist seem to be on issues they consider settled. NDT, as much as love the guy, is very much condescending in the way he approaches anyone who dare question his holy subset of facts. Until recently, I never considered Bill Nye to be this way. He proved me wrong. Provocation aside, condescension is unbecoming.

What does NDT mean, longhand lol.

I would agree condescending is never a good method, but when push comes to shove....

NDT .... Neal Degrasse Tyson

[themadscientist]

Oh save me your holier than thou BS Mike. I wasn't pro-Romney until he was the only other alternative to Obama. Never once have I said RP wouldn't have been the best choice. How many times have I said I was tired of voting for the lesser of two poopyhead? More then I want to remember.

But you did it anyway, didn't ya? Actions speak louder than words.

NDT has scandals in his past. Let us not forget Plutogate.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3DfwFZZXDQ[/youtube]

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

I liked Bill Nye before his melt down a few months ago, aimed at people who believe in Intelligent Design. Regardless of your belief, his behavior was way below par for his normal self.

The panel brought it, he replied. Better to be condescending than sit idly by and let the U.S. slip backward to ignorance
Also, I bought my coins from a coin dealer at market value. Sometimes, when I'm sad, I just hold them.

[WDRacing]

But you did it anyway, didn't ya? Actions speak louder than words.

We've had this discussion before. Until a third party is actually a viable alternative I'm going to vote for the better of the 2 possible choices. YOU may think Romney and Obama are the same people, I do not. We all make decisions based on what's best for us. For me, Obama was far worse than Romney, but my vote was thrown into the fire as soon as it was cast, this is Joe Biden's fvcking home state. They worship that pricksvcker around here...

Show where to sign up and I'll be more then happy to stand next to you in the street, on the sidewalk, whatever or wherever until we can force some change. You know as well as I, that the entire Gov is broken. From the electoral process to congress, all busted and disfunctional. RP was never going to be the GOP's nominee, he was going to bring too much change. People were going to lose money and power.

I'm no lapdog, my eyes are wide open. The GOP fvcked me just as much as they fvcked you. They aren't my "party", I'm on my own little island and I'm happy here.

[stebo0728]

.... typical libertarian "told you so" post .....

Kwichurbichen

We were doomed either way. I wanted to ride off the cliff in a red car instead of a blue one. We all knew the factory was never going to make the Gold plated car everyone really wanted (Johnson). Now I'm forced to keep riding in the blue car, I'll just put my fingers in my ears while the blue car fans strum their ukuleles and sing about how glorious the ride will be.