*THE BIG QUESTIONS* KA vs SR + Other

[vvaffle]

http://www.phat-kat.com is not a NICO sponsor as far as I know. Just wanted to mention that.

[Tmckinney33]

So you guys would say just get a turbo then?

How much will I have in it once im done? I have heard too do a sr right it will be at least 7,000$ USD. I am willing to spend that money, if I knew I would be more than happy with it. Is there anyone near NC, that would be willing too take me for a ride, or come check out your car?

And let me say sry for being so uneducated, but hey atleast I am learning from all of yous guys.

[babowc]

you sound like a "baller", so im just gonna say this.

if you want to just spend money and get things done by a professional mechanic... just send your car in the shop and tell them you want a nice n/a 240.

i dont know if anyone on this forum is running sr20de, but doesnt make much sense to replace the fine ka24de for .4 litres less (sr20)

im there are plenty people here running n/a ka and making mid 200 hp. if not more...the sr doesnt have that big of a weight difference from the ka either...

as you said, if you are a veteran mechanic whos been working on cars for 30 years, you'd know mostly how-to and what to do to build a well performing N/A car... whether you worked on fords or hondas

anyways... $7,000 seems pretty rediculously alot for a n/a SR...

i suppose.. turbos are all same, but as you said, you had bad experience with them?... if you just take care of it and do regular maintenance on them, they will last longer than the motor in some cases.. but since your the mechanic, im sure you already knew.

oh yea.. i just read your user name.. you arent the.. Mckinney Motorsports man.. are ya?

[emperor_lunchbox]

mckinneys name is Mack.

[Mikoriad]

I will reiterate..... http://www.phatka-t.com is not a sponser of this site....

hint

[Tmckinney33]

No, I found out a man uses my last name, Mckinney Motor Mounts, was kinda kool. So I guess ill just build up a KA. What is eveyrone running parts wise?

[boost_creep]

wait a minute...i though ur a master mechanic.this thread is hilarious.

[spider_slayer]

ok, granted....but why in the heck would you want to import an sr20de for some insane ammount of money when our cars come with the ka, which already has a little bit more displacement.

and guy who wants an N/A 240sx......jsut stick with domestics if you are so opposed to forced induction, other wise its kinda hard to get alot of power out of a 4cyl engine (not to mention if you do build an N/A 2.4l the cost is probally going to be as much as if you jsut went with a turbo)

and to the guy who said v8's ruin 240s.....i'm willing to bet a 240 with an lt1 would smash on ANYTHING you have....and most likely my sr20det as well....there is really no replacement for displacement

[2_Liter_Turbo]

If you race drag racing; of course. But that's nothing to brag about. Real racing requires skill and running a "Balanced" car. V8's, while are great if you just want to go fast in a straight line, totally offset the balance of the 240 chassis; be it the s13 or s14. When I say it ruins the 240, I meant by screwing up what the car is; a sports car. If you want a Drag "Racer" then by all means throw in a push rod 8 banger. If you want to race circuit, drift, or autocross or something of that sort, then it would be a very impractical choice.

Also you don't know what I have, so why the insult??? I only have what’s in my 240 in my signature.

If you just want horsepower there is no replacement for displacement. However, if you want a car that will perform better in lap times (with turns, no NASCAR style crap), then yes there is...

[spider_slayer]

ok, sorry about that......didn't really mean it as an insult but its true (I'm under the assumption that guy can drive and control his car) but honestly.....if i lost to an lt1 240sx.....i wouldn't be all that ashamed

but i still strongly belive in the fact that displacement rocks....you are right when you say that a v8 makes our car kinda offset.....but thats simply in the design of our car. the car was designed to be extreamly lightweight and have a pretty light engine in it so if that balance is upset then yes it will do poorly in a circuit (i hate nascar as well by the way). but cars like the new c6's are v8's and simply rock on courses...its not all about horsepower, your right....but the car has to match its out put....formula 1 cars are N/A......

anywho....its 2:42 in the morning on a friday night and i'm here talkin on nico cause there is nothing better to do.....i'm pretty tired so i think all of that made sense....i'll read it tommorow and if it is jsut a buncha jumbled words then i'm not gonna post in this thread again

[spider_slayer]

zer...age=1

this has been a pretty intresting thread....even if you don't like the v8's in a 240.....you have to admire the job he did putting that thing in there.....the guy who built the car seems to love it as well

[2_Liter_Turbo]

My theory is if you want a car to perform well with a v8, then buy a car that comes with it (or one with a really heavy 6 cylinder hehe). The new vette is acually a very good handling car and I give it mad props for that. I just don't like it when people have the mindset to throw v8's in everything inluding a shopping cart, because it is "raw american muscle". It's just stupid in my opinion. If you want to drag race, then by all means drop one in a grocery basket, but if someone appreciates motorsports, they will carefully decide on a platform to suit their needs. I'd love to have a C6 vette, but I can't offord one, as with alot of people here. That's why we drive 240's. A cheap alternative to the high price sports cars, be it Japanese, German , American or whatever.

No hard feelings by the way. Just letting people know my opinion on the whole V8 versus I4 argument that always seems to spring up everywhere. I guess I get into it because I work at an autoparts and accessories store in the middle of hickville, where if you don't drive a camro, mustang or an F-series ford truck that's liftied 5 feet, your a discrace to the human race. I have to defend my car on a daily basis Anyways, enough rambling on, I'm going to go work on my "4-banger"

[spider_slayer]

v8 in a grocery basket

you made me laugh. and i feel you on the hick thing.....i live in kansas, the other day i saw a guy mowing his lawn and while riding his lawnmower he proceded to merge into trafic and go to the gas station.....

[D-UNIT]

If you race drag racing; of course. But that's nothing to brag about. Real racing requires skill and running a "Balanced" car. V8's, while are great if you just want to go fast in a straight line, totally offset the balance of the 240 chassis; be it the s13 or s14. When I say it ruins the 240, I meant by screwing up what the car is; a sports car. If you want a Drag "Racer" then by all means throw in a push rod 8 banger. If you want to race circuit, drift, or autocross or something of that sort, then it would be a very impractical choice.

Blah blah blah. How would you know!?! Huh. You don't have one. You never rode in one (obviuosly). You probaly never even seen one perform. So how can you say all that if you don't even know! Look, don't knock it , if you've never rocked it. Yeah I could see dissing the guy who wants to slap in a cast iron block 350 chevy w/ a holley 650 and a turbo 350 trans. That is OK. Just don't diss the guy you wants any of the aluminum block LS1 variants ( LS1 - 350 hp , LS6 - 405 hp , LS2 - 405 hp , LS7 - 500+ hp yeah thats right!!) w/ the six speed Tremec. I hate people who generallize push rod V8's. They are not all the same!!! Honestly don't crush my dreams man. I'm pretty sure a 400 hp NA V8 240 would stomp all over a 350 hp I4 240 on the track. That is why they make 265/45zr18's!!

Anyway Ford Mechanic Guy should sell me his shell and buy a 89' mustang.LOL Just kidding. KA-t is a very good option. That is what I'm running.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

Umm actually I used to go to Sears Point every other Wednesday for the drag races. Yes I have ridden and driven in a straight-line car before (fun yes, challenging no). My Dad had a 78 Trans Am with an all aluminum LT1. My Uncle also has a Hurst Edition Cutlass 442. I used to be big into muscle cars. I have worked, raced, and slept muscle cars before getting into Imports.

Yes I know they are not all the same. That's what I have to explain to all the dipsh*t hicks that come into my work claiming that every Chevy small block in the world in the same. So when they order parts for their Chevy truck and get an 02 Corvette part and it doesn't fit, I have to listen to why I ordered them the wrong part.

You have no Idea how much I have dealt with domestic cars. Why don't you ask before making generalizations. I think you are quite the hypocrite.

Who said I was crushing your dreams??? Personally I still want a 70.5 Camaro with a 396. I want it for a nice classy car however. Not something I'd take to the track. That's what the 240sx is for.

And I highly doubt that a V8 powered 240sx would beat a 240sx with an I4, which is balanced (with the same budget). Blah blah blah yourself man. You need to lighten up.

[lancefloyd]

ok..understood phatkat.org is not a sponsor. got that. This is about enough of an off topic issue, ..but if you think a 20lb difference of engines will "upset" the balance of a 240...well then I'd go piss in the cornflakes of everyone who has an intercooler...since thats a forward weight add on. I'm not one to V8 a 240,..but there is no viable weight issue...given the fact the most heavy of components (trans) is near center of the car. BTW...who made an alumimum LT1?? That would be an Iron block as far as I was informed...oh and I've owned a few.

[D-UNIT]

Umm actually I used to go to Sears Point every other Wednesday for the drag races. Yes I have ridden and driven in a straight-line car before (fun yes, challenging no). My Dad had a 78 Trans Am with an all aluminum LT1. My Uncle also has a Hurst Edition Cutlass 442. I used to be big into muscle cars. I have worked, raced, and slept muscle cars before getting into Imports.

Dude I am not talking about muscle cars. You could be Jay Leno for goodness sakes. The point is ... you have never owned , driven , and probably never seen a V8 240 perform. Good or Bad!! All of the cars above are atleast 1200+ pounds heavier than a 240 , V8 or not. You post V8 240 is junk , like it is a fact , but in fact you are posting misinformation. You don't really know. And I don't hear any V8 240 owners on this board complaining. So read my post good before you and try to reverse it on me.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

For one I mistyped. It was an LS1 not an LT1. I was in a hurry.

I didn't say it was junk. You need to read what I posted more accurately. For what a lot of people want to do with their cars that’s awesome.

I would think the weight difference between an SR20DET and an LS1 or other variant with all accessories and transmission would be more than just a mere 20 lbs. Also how many people do you know autocross a V8 powered 240sx and claim that it handles better than with a KA24DE(T) or SR20DET?

I Just believe that putting a V8 from America ruins the integrity of the 240sx. Those motors are designed closer to their breaking point than Japanese motors. You can run a lot of boost on a stock internal KA or SR. Throw that same amount of stress on an American engine, and poof; you need a new one.

[spider_slayer]

a v8 400hp 240 vs. a 350 i4.......that would definitally be a drivers race. i'd be willing to bet on the v8 jsut because of the globs of torque that it would have down low....

anywho.....who has found the actual weight of our engine and that of an ls1/lt1? i have heard alot of numbers thrown around but no one has been able to confirm anything......i looked the other night and couldn't find anything at all.

me and my friend were having this discussion the other day about the weight difference....while the cast iron lt1 is gonna be MUCH more heavy...the alum. block ls1 may in fact only weight say 30 or 40 lbs more....this is jsut because there is not that much more metal, only more displacement. if anyone could find the weight for SURE from a reliable source that would be great because until then we can only speculate. and that doesn't really help anything.

[turbo98_240sx]

Here is what I found I think this might be crate engines not actualy out from the hood of a corvette. LT1 - 452 lbsLT4 - 1003.5 lbsLS1 - Auto 457.6 lbs, Manual 497.2 lbsLS6 - 497.2 lbs

I got this off of some corvette message board I just did a SEARCH on yahoo for LT1 weight or something similar

and when you look at the SR or KA motors that weight isn't gonna include the turbo intercooler or pipeing ?maybe even the diffrence in the turbo mani + downpipe wouldn't be included even tho the sr20det is only 10lbs heavier idk? this is what I found on NICO with a quick SEARCH

A12____ - 87 kg _192 lbsA14____ - 93 kg _205 lbsL18____ - 118 kg 260 lbsCA18ET_ - 118 kg 260 lbsQR25DE_ - 121 kg 267 lbsCA18DET - 128 kg 282 lbsSR20DE -- 139 kg 306 lbsSR20DET - 149 kg 328 lbsFJ20ET_ - 166 kg 366 lbsKA24DE_ - 167 kg 368 lbs

Correct me if I'm wrong or some one knows diffrently. I'm deffintly not saying this is coold hard fact.

start searching and stop thinking that any old V8 is gonna suck balls.
Modified by turbo98_240sx at 12:50 PM 4/18/2005

[Tmckinney33]

Thanks, I was looking for that one too...

[SunshineAcid]

8bangers are nice, but personally i want the 350z transplanted under my hood.i hear they are squeezing out 1700+ hp from those badboys.not that i will ever use that much, but hey, i dig the sound a a built v6 more than a 4 or an 8. =P

back to the post though:if youre no stranger to mechanics, then just bump it up to 2.6l with the bore and stroke.that and high comp pistons should make you about 200 hp, not to mention youd have a fresh 240your redline will be reduced, but hell it might be worth it. especially if you dont like turbos. you could possibly superchage it, seeing as you know fords, then you know the 2.3l supercoupes.that would be a good matchup for supercharging.

[spider_slayer]

i'm really doubting the 1700 mark

[JustinStrife]

If you race drag racing; of course. But that's nothing to brag about. Real racing requires skill and running a "Balanced" car. V8's, while are great if you just want to go fast in a straight line, totally offset the balance of the 240 chassis; be it the s13 or s14. When I say it ruins the 240, I meant by screwing up what the car is; a sports car. If you want a Drag "Racer" then by all means throw in a push rod 8 banger. If you want to race circuit, drift, or autocross or something of that sort, then it would be a very impractical choice.

Also you don't know what I have, so why the insult??? I only have what’s in my 240 in my signature.

If you just want horsepower there is no replacement for displacement. However, if you want a car that will perform better in lap times (with turns, no NASCAR style crap), then yes there is...

Just thought I'd throw my own .02 cents in. I spent a few hours on the RX7 forums in the alternative engines section, and was amazed to read up on the success of the LS1 swap in the FC and FD chassis. They doubled the gas mileage, almost doubled the torque, and doubled the life expectancy of the engines and made the cars into absolute beasts. The average LS1 swap in an FD increased about 40-60 lbs to the front, which was offset by putting the battery in the rear of the car. The powerband was incredible, and they were able to get 30mpg on the freeway because of the gearing. People who knock the LS1 swap, should do some research on them before posting up their hater posts. I'm hoping to get a ride in an LS1 FD in the next couple weeks or so since there's a guy down here in San Diego with a SMOG LEGAL swap. IN CALI NO LESS! It's also been proven to be a killer in the Auto-X events, and drivers who own Rotary powered FD's, who've driven LS1 powered FDs in the same events, pulled FASTER times with the LS1s. And they weren't even all tuned, nor had their suspension dialed in perfectly yet. In the end, he who gets to the finish line the fastest, is the real winner.

[Iamjohnhayes]

Don't you have to rev out a rotary to like almost 5 grand just to make power? From what i have experienced rotary engines have no low rpm balls. So woudn't that make rotary suck for auto-x. I think you could stick anyone in bth cars and watch them pull better times in the LS1. Also what was the power difference between those rotary engines and the LS1.

[Tmckinney33]

Talk about off topic...

[wallybman]

ya'll have forgotten two motors that will go in, and are not that hard to find, make good hp and ungodly torque, and you can get them anywhere... vg30de and the vg30dett

i've seen one in a sil eighty before, and being the owner of both a 90 300zx gs and a 91 240 hatch, i'm considering the tt for the 240.... sil 300? 300sx? z13?

[Ni2s4s0aSnX]

No, the SR20DET is not worth the money. I can't see why people even buy them when the SR20DET is only a 2.0Liter engine, compared to the 2.4Liter KA24DE. The reason why people buy the SR20 is because of the big numbers that they see in the horsepower specs. When in fact the only reason it has more horse power than the KA24 is because of the turbocharger that comes stock on it. When the KA24 had more displacement. And you can't beat displacement. If you put a turbocharger on the KA24 engine it would put out alot more than the stock SR20. The SR20 with the stock turbo only puts out around 205 h.p.. And the stock KA24 puts out 155 h.p.. without a turbo. The KA24 definetely wins between the two. But the best thing for your 240sx would be a RB25DET or a RB20, or an RB26DETT would be the best. And to answer another one of your questions, a turbocharger is the best way to get horsepower, but not on the SR.
Modified by Ni2s4s0aSnX at 1:13 PM 6/13/2005

[Chingon]

Here is what I found I think this might be crate engines not actualy out from the hood of a corvette. LT1 - 452 lbsLT4 - 1003.5 lbsLS1 - Auto 457.6 lbs, Manual 497.2 lbsLS6 - 497.2 lbs

I got this off of some corvette message board I just did a SEARCH on yahoo for LT1 weight or something similar

and when you look at the SR or KA motors that weight isn't gonna include the turbo intercooler or pipeing ?maybe even the diffrence in the turbo mani + downpipe wouldn't be included even tho the sr20det is only 10lbs heavier idk? this is what I found on NICO with a quick SEARCH

A12____ - 87 kg _192 lbsA14____ - 93 kg _205 lbsL18____ - 118 kg 260 lbsCA18ET_ - 118 kg 260 lbsQR25DE_ - 121 kg 267 lbsCA18DET - 128 kg 282 lbsSR20DE -- 139 kg 306 lbsSR20DET - 149 kg 328 lbsFJ20ET_ - 166 kg 366 lbsKA24DE_ - 167 kg 368 lbs

Correct me if I'm wrong or some one knows diffrently. I'm deffintly not saying this is coold hard fact.

start searching and stop thinking that any old V8 is gonna suck balls.

Modified by turbo98_240sx at 12:50 PM 4/18/2005

Almost right... except the ls1 figures is fully dressed All accesories.. Weight is 375 for ls6 and ls2.

[ilovemys13]

wait a minute...i though ur a master mechanic.this thread is hilarious.

I concur

but hey this thread helped me seal the deal on my dilemma of the SR or KA.

woot, thanks guys.

oh by the way there, the KA stands for kick ***