The 14th Amendment

[telcoman]

It is time for our president to use it.

"The 14th Amendment, adopted during Reconstruction, says the validity of the public debt of the United States cannot be questioned. Threatening the economy with calamity to achieve partisan goals does just that. President Obama should use every power at his disposal to fend off Republicans’ irresponsible threats and invite them to meet him in court if they want to resist."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/05/opini ... it.html?hp

Telcoman

[R/T Hemi]

The elections are coming and the good news, if any in the economic problems, are that the Publicans will shoulder the blame for acting as they have in these matters. Want to bet more Republicans apply for unemployment than Democrats in January 2013?

IF we're lucky these idiots will fail at sending us into another recession, but according to Cornell, the chance is 50/50 of that not happening. The Republican legacy seems to indicate how deeply that party hates America.

[Cold_Zero]

Invoke an Amendment that was drafted to deal with the Confederacy and apply it to the Debt Limit. Brilliant! I guess my question is, why would he have to invoke it now? I thought he, the Dems and the Republicans got what they wanted? Personally, I hope they raise the Debt Limit and spend all the Trillions of dollars that we don’t have. To prove once and for all that this style of governance, economic policy and spending policy is unsustainable.

[Cold_Zero]

Article 1 Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

[telcoman]

I hope they raise the Debt Limit and spend all the Trillions of dollars that we don’t have. To prove once and for all that this style of governance, economic policy and spending policy is unsustainable.

President Roosevelt proved that spending money we don't have right now to put unemployed people to work on infrastructue projects will result in collecting higher taxes later from those employed stimulating the economy.
The right by insisting spending be cut is sending us into a recession. Under Bush they didn't seem to have a unfunded spending problem with a gift to the drug companies with medicare part D or getting us into a war in Iraq with s*** WMD
Cutting taxes for the wealthy has not resulted in any job creation.
Recent polls indicate over 80% of Americans are pissed at the right over what they are doing.
The 2012 elections will make this very very clear.

Telcoman

[R/T Hemi]

. . .
Cutting taxes for the wealthy has not resulted in any job creation.

Trickle down economics is a figment of the right's imagination. How anyone can honestly believe that the money is going to trickle down into more jobs is ludicrous.

Recent polls indicate over 80% of Americans are pissed at the right over what they are doing.

As well they should be. They have no idea that this is all going to backfire on them a year from November.

[Cold_Zero]

President Roosevelt proved that spending money we don't have right now to put unemployed people to work on infrastructue projects will result in collecting higher taxes later from those employed stimulating the economy.

Some scholars have indicated that it prolonged the depression and recovery. Even some of Roosevelt's cabinet claim all the spending didnt help bring the country out of the depression. We learned in school, years ago, that it was the War that got us out of the Great Depression. I am sure that doesnt fit Howie, your bloggospheric world view/agenda. But the simple fact that you are claiming we need to follow a policy that is over 80 years old on a modern society and economy is a bit worrisome. I think YOU and the NECONs need to stop looking to the past to rekindle those ‘Good Old Days’ as if we could only go back to 1930’s, 40’s 50’s and (sure as s***) the 1960’s that would fix all of our problems.

The right by insisting spending be cut is sending us into a recession.

It couldn’t be the fact that we are so over extended, that the Stock Markets are contracting and investors are second guessing investing in T-Bills?

The 2012 elections will make this very very clear.

Telcoman

I think it will be very very clear, just not the result you are expecting.

[szh]

Trickle down economics is a figment of the right's imagination. How anyone can honestly believe that the money is going to trickle down into more jobs is ludicrous.

Way better economists than you or I have argued over the merits and demerits of "Supply-side Economics" (the correct term) ...

As always, it is never that clear that your comment is accurate ... or not.

Z

[telcoman]

Way better economists than you or I have argued over the merits and demerits of "Supply-side Economics" (the correct term) ...

As always, it is never that clear that your comment is accurate ... or not.

Z

Name them and when has trickle down economics ever worked?

[R/T Hemi]

I have to agree with telcoman. I don't know if an example of trickle down economics ever working. I'd be interesting in seeing some figures in that regard.

[telcoman]

I have to agree with telcoman. I don't know if an example of trickle down economics ever working. I'd be interesting in seeing some figures in that regard.

Eventually it will work. When the unemployed and working people take to the streets with large demonstrations in Washington change will eventually come.

The last time was prior to Reagan in the 1970's when millions were fed up with the Viet Nam war, womans rights and the civil rights movement. This new generation will eventually wake up and drive out those in government that has been screwing them.

More recently we saw the beginning of workers demonstrating inthe streets in Wisconsin.

[R/T Hemi]

That, and the right will question where the jobs went while shopping for Chinese made goods at Wallmart.

[Cold_Zero]

There he goes again. Reminiscing about the 1960's.

[telcoman]

There he goes again. Reminiscing about the 1960's.

Click on this after the 2012 election
I know I will

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdvITn5cAVc

[szh]

Way better economists than you or I have argued over the merits and demerits of "Supply-side Economics" (the correct term) ...

As always, it is never that clear that your comment is accurate ... or not.

Z

Name them and when has trickle down economics ever worked?

Keynes and Blinder on one side of the argument and Laffer and Wanniski on the other.

Your second question is not worth addressing - that was exactly my point. If you choose to believe it does not work, then you will never accept any answer and find the appropriate examples to exemplify my point.

Z

[szh]

That, and the right will question where the jobs went while shopping for Chinese made goods at Wallmart.

"Jobs to China" started happening during the "left" watch - Clinton's era.

Z

[szh]

There he goes again. Reminiscing about the 1960's.

Click on this after the 2012 election
I know I will

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdvITn5cAVc

We shall indeed see how it goes.

From a link you posted in another thread (BTW, it will indeed be interesting to see how many of the Democrat big spenders survive):

Here is a better one

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/05/us/po ... ml?_r=1&hp

A snippet ... from your NY Times link:

There were signs that the repeated Republican calls for more spending cuts were resonating with the public: 44 percent of those polled said the cuts in the debt-ceiling agreement did not go far enough, 29 percent said they were about right and only 15 percent said they went too far. More than a quarter of the Democrats polled said that the cuts in the agreement did not go far enough.

I think that John Q. Public may be far more in sympathy with the Republican position than you may like to see in the next elections.

Z

[Cold_Zero]

There he goes again. Reminiscing about the 1960's.

Click on this after the 2012 election
I know I will

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdvITn5cAVc

I was thinking more like this after the 2008 election:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxgRUyzgs0&ob=av2e

[IBCoupe]

The thing is moot for now, but there never was a "14th Amendment option." Had it come down to it, I'd have advised the President to borrow against the wishes of Congress, anyways, because he was stuck violating the Constitution either way. Either he violates the budget he signed in April, or he violates the Public Debt Acts.

He'd be sued either way, but I think the Court would have to come out against Congress's use of the debt ceiling. While Congress alone has the power to issue debts and it alone has the power to demand spending, I don't believe Congress has the authority to demand spending it doesn't intend to pay for. But no matter which way the Court would go, President Obama was trapped by the Constitution's structural flaws and Congress's stupidity.