th350 in 240?

[drewhenderson13]

does a th350 fit in the tunnel of a 240sx? s13 specificly.

i just realised that every ls1 240 i saw had a standard transmission in it.

ive always been an auto man.

just curious if anyone knows for sure if theyl fit or not.

[cnichols]

OutToWinPAHC on here has a TH350 in his S13. He would be the person to ask about how much tunnel modification was necessary. My guess is not much, but I could be wrong.

[drewhenderson13]

nothing a nice bang bang from the ole do all tool wont fix i hope.

i dont do welding... if it doesnt fit with a hammer im going a different route.

[cnichols]

I got a C4 Ford auto transmission to fit without cutting, so just find somebody who knows how the two compare.

[drewhenderson13]

c4s are good transmissions... but i wouldnt mount one to a LS engine.

that and i already have a th350.

i had thought about doing a 5.0... havent necesarly cut it out of the equation, but im leaning towards a LS engine.

[OutToWinPAHC]

Yeah I have a TH350 in mine... You have to take out your carpet, get your propane tourch out and a mini sledge and take out come of the curves. After that was done some sanding and undercoat the tunnel. Now as for the crossmember..... its easier. It mounts within 2 inches of the stock auto trans crossmember. Just gotta do a little fabbing and your good

The C4 has a smaller bellhousing, they TH350's are a bit longer front to back (bell housing).

The TH350 doesn't fit an LSX though The bell housing will, you need a crank adapter or a special converter (750 bucks). So if you have the trans allready it might not be worth it. Just use a 4L60E (electronic 700R4). I too had my trans but she was build to be nasty and take 600 horse so I wasnt wasting a 1200 rebuild.

[drewhenderson13]

i know some ways to make a th350 fit a ls engine.

but i havent even for sure decided what engine im using.

i wont use a 4l60e, i hate them.

so is it the front of the tunel (near the firewall) that needs the work?

and the console and all that stuff will still fit straight after all this right?

[OutToWinPAHC]

Yea the front and some of the insides its not a perfectly rounded tunnel there are some spots with squared edges that need to be hammered out. Theres nothing really behind it so go crazy on it. I know I did and fit in there perfect.

Yeah I dont liek the 4l60E at all, but the 700R4 is nice when its built right. But Im a strip kinda guys its all about the Powerglides and 3 speeds for me

[drewhenderson13]

yea... if i needed a overdrive id use a 700r4. but im not a fan of teh overdrives.

i actually sold a 700r4 a while back. kept the th350 though.

i got a whole mess of chevy parts for cheap off some crack head.

gave $25 for a 700r4, th350, vortech heads, hedman heders, and a 350 block and crank.

sold the 700r4 for $75.. made 50 bucks and still got the rest of the stuff.

tell me again why people hate drugs... i believe they have their uses

[Fla240sx]

new model 4l60's > 700's......... reliability, power, shift timing....... stock 4L60's stink, but they can be built up... I also don't like how easy it is to foul up a 700's govenor or valve body... they are real touchy sob's

C4 > th350 in power department

c4's are small too, for some reason they just seem to take a beating really well

I personally like the 200-4r, with some modifications here and there, it can be a real badass.... GN's are pushing low 9's with them. it is also a closer ratio transmission then a 700. it also has a smaller case then a 700/350... the bellhousings are about the same, but the area above the pan that holds the drums/planets etc. is smaller in diameter... shift kit/700 filter conversion/deep pan/pump mods/proper clutches/bands= your golden......

[drewhenderson13]

new model 4l60's > 700's......... reliability, power, shift timing....... stock 4L60's stink, but they can be built up... I also don't like how easy it is to foul up a 700's govenor or valve body... they are real touchy sob's

C4 > th350 in power department

c4's are small too, for some reason they just seem to take a beating really well

I personally like the 200-4r, with some modifications here and there, it can be a real badass.... GN's are pushing low 9's with them. it is also a closer ratio transmission then a 700. it also has a smaller case then a 700/350... the bellhousings are about the same, but the area above the pan that holds the drums/planets etc. is smaller in diameter... shift kit/700 filter conversion/deep pan/pump mods/proper clutches/bands= your golden......

id agree with you on everything except the 4l60s being better than 700r4s.

4l60s are junk, ive seen ones with $2000 in a rebuild fall apart. it was rebuilt 3 times and kept loosing gears on a 500hp lt1.

i will never put a 4l60 in a car thats modified in any way.

[OutToWinPAHC]

I am going to disagree with you too on these here.

The TH 200-4R is used by many of the GN guys, but the have a spooled launch and they eat them up. They are lighter but in terms of abuse and reliability the 700R4 will hold up better and longer. The 200 was made for use on V6's keep this in mind

The 700R4 vs. 4L60E well there’s no benefit using either It’s the same transmission with the exception that the 4L60E is ecu controlled and the 700 is mechanical. It really depends on the owner here, ECU shift points or hand tune your own kit.

Now a C4 vs. a TH350 lol why compare theres no need. But the C4 is skinnier and longer but about the same weight. As far as power the C4 and TH350 are matched. You maybe be confused with a C6 being the powerhouse. The C4 was found in many cars Falcon, Fairlane, Mustangs, but the C6s were found on many of the 351's Cleveland’s of coarse, 460's. There are Fords flagship Trans, and can take some abuse. But if you go to your local race rack you will see most guys are sing a T56 or a C6 in their mustang on the strip. This trans would be matched by the TH400

You could always be nuts and use the new 6L80 or 6L90, or just go for the strip only and use a powerglide

[drewhenderson13]

i could... but th350 is one of my favorite transmissions... and since i already have one i might as welll use it.

[Fla240sx]

no no, c4's are built up VERY strong....... I've seen way too many 350's pop on damn near stock 350's from the 70's..........

u maybe thinking of the 200c, a close relative of the 200-4r... that was used on 6 banger models... most 200-4r's can be found in B bodies or G bodies with v8's or FI v6.....

see the problem with transmissions and saying my buddies 2k dollar one keeps blowing up with X amount of power is this:

most transmission people are scumbags.... he maybe charging you what you think is a lot, so you must be getting a good transmission correct? not always the case.... in fact your typical gearhead wouldn't know what he was looking at inside a transmission anyhow, none the less take it apart and put it back together........ if he could why did he bring it to a shop in the first place? so shady transmission shops have many practices of not putting parts inside that you paid for.........

the 700 and 4l60 are the same thing power wise.. however newer model 4L60's have some updated parts to help with power....... they all share the same sized bands/clutches/converters though........ you can't act like a 700 will hold up to 100 more horsepower then a 4l60 cause thats not the case at all......... they are both equal..... with the one thing the 4L60 has as an advantage is computer controlled....... computers rule..... harder to setup... but once it is, its 10x better....... same reason why most people are switching over to expensive FI setups on their SBC's.... TPI conversions, or just going the LT1-LS1 route..... who wants to dabble with carbs when you have today's technology that just smokes that garbage........ again one thing carbs have going for them is ease of setup... particularily in swap conversions.......

I also stand by my 200-4r is more durable then a 700 comment........ you fix a few little problems and buy a billet converter, they will take very fast ET times

another cool thing I forgot to mention about the 200 is its less rotating mass........ compared to a TH400 or 4L80E..... it is a very noticeable difference....... those transmissions must spin some HEAVY parts... although lighter replacement parts have been made for the cost of an arm and leg.... or 4 digits

believe me, if you ever plan to put your 240sx with a v8 swap on the road... you will surely wish you had overdrive. hell stock at highway cruising speeds I still put over 3k RPM's on my little SOHC KA....... I couldn't imagine doing that to a v8....... and then your not even going to have overdrive! you do know what kind of gear ratio a 240sx has for its rear end stock don't you?

[OutToWinPAHC]

Your information was all over there. Your comparing a 2004R to a TH400 at one point and there is no comparison. Place a TH400 and the 200R4 on a ZZ502 and see which one is there after 10 launches....... As far as the TH350 there are MANY out there with many changes over the years. It’s not a matter of the converter, its all about the valve body, clutches, servos and bands. It’s a matter of build and who does it. You got to do your homework. There are good transmission builders out there. And they usually make a name for themselves at the dragstrip.

You say many people pop TH350's from the 70's.... like the 70’s were a bad era, It’s the same generation Trans as a C4 there were also a Trans from the 60's through the 80's. Were talking Ford VS Chevy granted people have placed Fords on Chevy Trans, and vice versa but lets leave them on their own entity.

And these guys are not converting Gen1 small block to TPI they are going standalone. TPI was a mess that needed much work. Not as bad as Crossfire but it’s a thing of the past. Fuel Injection is the way to go and the old timers are seeing it finally

The 700R4 and 4L60E is one of those matter of preference things. Sometimes people want to just stay off the computer. There are too many variable to make the transmission work when on the ECU and at the track it can prove good or bad. This is why you will find most of the people stay off them at the track. They don’t want to have to worry about if the ECU isn’t seeing that variable and missing a shift. Just stomp and go

[drewhenderson13]

he got his transmission work done at a reputible shop that works on race cars.

the work was under warranty, shady mecahnics dont waranty ther work.

if i build a v8 240 im not going to care the gas mielage it gets on the highway.

4l60es are just unreliable in general. they dont often make it past 100k miles in a completly stock car. i have personaly seen this. i have one in my v6 s-10 and ive already had to get it rebuilt, and it only has 85k on it.

i have never met someone who races a 4l60 that is satisfied with it.

overdrive transmissions are ment for daily drivers... thats not the purpose of the car i want to build,

[Fla240sx]

no I mean 70's as in stock 1970's era 350cuin engines... low power... breaking th350's..... nova's and chyt........

th350's aren't strong.........

I've seen enough break, I work at a transmission shop lol

I'll put my 200-4r up to a 502 and laugh about it.....



just give me the 502

theres a lot more as far as strength goes to a transmission then its clutches/bands

they affect holding capacity(at which point its a matter of what type and how much friction material and pressures to hold it there... damn near any automatic transmission pump is capable of making way more then enough pressure)........ but I'm talking shear strength..........

to each their own

[drewhenderson13]

are you sure you arent thinking of the light duty th200s from teh 70s?

thats what they used in teh late 70s novas.

tehy used the same case as teh th350 (or one that looked unidentifiably different) but with internals made of alloys.

tehy were pieces of sh*t that everyone replaced with th350s when thy crapped out.

ive never heard anyone complain about a th350.

2004rs are good transmissions, i never said they werent. but you beter check on those th350s... their tough.

[Fla240sx]

I work at a transmission shop for years, I know the difference

BTW I love this sub-forum you guys can debate without acting like kids....

[Fla240sx]

also their is a difference between a 200 and 350 case

they look similar in shape but they are narrower........

a 200-4r is basically the same with an overdrive unit and some beefed up internals.......... they do share some common parts

heres a 350

heres a 200c

the 200 lacks a modulator, notice how different the rear section looks along the pan, also the TV cable goes there.... whereas the TH350 has the TV cable in front of the servo....... also the 350 pan is a lot wider but you can't really tell in those pics.... its a couple inch difference I'd say off the top of my head

here is a 200-4r for reference

notice the servo and how big it is compared to the 350, the overdrive section on a 200 is right after the pump, odd compared to other transmissions.....

[OutToWinPAHC]

Heres an idea just use a TH400 and be done.

[drewhenderson13]

theres no reason to fight about things. this is simply discusion that promotes learning.

i tried to start a "favorite engine" thread in another section... people freaked out and within 15 min it was locked. i tried it 3 times! its rediculous.

now back to my point.

i was just throwing out a possibility... i have no idea what your talking about with the th350s breaking. yes there are stronger transmisions and yes th350s will break, any mechanical device made by a man will break. but th350s are very capable transmisions. ive never heard of large amounts of them breaking because of stock or light modified cars.

let it also be known that any th350 that i use is going to be rebuilt and modified anyway.

a th400 is stronger but i wont be using a engine powerful enough to need it, and you loose a little more power through a th400. id use a th400 on a race motor if thats what i was building.

[Fla240sx]

one bad thing about a 400 is its internal rotating mass is very high.... and it doesn't have overdrive....... hell if your car is fast enough overdrive will give you faster and quicker 1/4 mile times

sure you can always regear... not low enough with a R200 diff... and use a powerglide... but you need a lot of power

I was going to do a v8 FC3S swap..... even with a 400 horsepower engine they are bouncing off the rev limmiter way before the finish line with a 3 speed....... my goal was about a 400horse SBc... so therefore I built up a 200-4r for it.......

[drewhenderson13]

some people love overdrives... i hate them.

and i like my cars to be street hotrods or drift cars anyway.

so theres no need for more than 3 gears.

i just prefer the simplicity of a 3 speed and the cheapness and availability of parts for transmissions like th350s.

[OutToWinPAHC]

Just an FYI the Z32 ring gear works fine in the R200 diff. I lowered to a hmm 3.68 i believe from the stock 4.08 or .09 forget the exact ratio. I love the 1/4 mile but thats not the only reason I build mine so I lowered down when I put in the Q45 rear with a Cusco 1.5 way

[Fla240sx]

your going to need more then a 3.68 for a powerglide to make it a 1/4 mile and still be acelerating.........

[cnichols]

Just an FYI the Z32 ring gear works fine in the R200 diff. I lowered to a hmm 3.68 i believe from the stock 4.08 or .09 forget the exact ratio. I love the 1/4 mile but thats not the only reason I build mine so I lowered down when I put in the Q45 rear with a Cusco 1.5 way

The Twin Turbo ring will not work on the R200. The non-turbo Z32 will, but I was under the impression that it was exactly the same as the S14 and wouldn't change anything. The S15 helical has a 3.69 final ratio as do the later year Q45s. (Early year Qs have a ~3.53)

Not following your post as you mention the Z32 at the beginning and the Q45 at the end. Just trying to keep misinformation from spreading.

[OutToWinPAHC]

No I do have a Q45 Rear, but on a Z32 Ring gear with the a Cusco 1.5. It was what was available for the build.

[cnichols]

Gotcha! Thanks. You don't happen to remember the number of teeth on them all do you? Pinion included.

[OutToWinPAHC]

Ill check one day, I got a lot of work to do yet I have been burried in work. I need to get under her and strip it for undercoat ill check it out then.