Texas executes Mexican national AGAINST the wishes of the Bush Admin

[heliochrome85]

I read metafilter every day, and suggest you do too......and i came across this thread today...http://www.metafilter.com/7388...white

any thoughts?

also, here is a link to the main page. Always filled with interesting stuff, that usually ends up being major time sucks for me.http://www.metafilter.com/

[rn79870]

Unfortunately this is another example of the US placing itself above international law, an act we have so heavily criticized other nations for. We either become a member of the international community and lead by example, or we continue being a nation that picks and chooses international laws to fit our needs.

Raping and murdering two young girls is a capital offense. But the back side of this is that other nations will now feel justified in not allowing Americans (even innocent Americans) access to the US consulate when they are detained in a foreign country. Nearsigntedness at it's best.

[skylndrftr]

We'll see how Texas feels about it when some co-eds get tossed in mexican jail and the US diplomats down there get teh finger...I'll bet the phrase 'selective memory is a *****' comes up a few times

[heliochrome85]

i totally agree. i cant wait till that happens. truth be told, it probably wont since Mexico has about the same independence from the US as puerto rico in these matters.

[1unar3clipse]

We'll see how Texas feels about it when some co-eds get tossed in mexican jail and the US diplomats down there get teh finger...I'll bet the phrase 'selective memory is a *****' comes up a few times

Eh I fear somehow I'll be hearing 10x the flakshrapnel about Mexicans being evil soul-less rape/kill machines from the "Minute Men" that protest in front of the Embassy and other populated joints like your local wal-bongs.

[1unar3clipse]

i totally agree. i cant wait till that happens. truth be told, it probably wont since Mexico has about the same independence from the US as puerto rico in these matters.

I dunno bro, I have citizenship and I've had to use money to get out of tickets more than twice, but thats only because the process involving paying a ticket includes going to the court and paying the ticket BEFORE you leave the country not to mention once you've been ticketed and its in the Mexican system your car will always flag at the border for exception and then every time you pass a military check point.

You don't hear about it much but a lot of underage US kids cross the border with older friends and go runamuck with fireworks and booze getting into all kinds of trouble..I see it every year down in B.C.S. for spring break.

but its all worth the gaggle of hot bishes that spring break and Baja can provide when combined
Modified by 1unar3clipse at 9:57 AM 8/7/2008

[AZhitman]

The "Texacutioner" thread started by Bob comes to mind...

[heliochrome85]

i know, but i find it ironic that he found someone he didnt want to execute without due process.

[rn79870]

And this time the Texecutioner must have listened to someone who actually knew something.

[srellim234]

You can argue whatever about this case, but also understand that the man never informed anyone that he was a Mexican national and demanded his consular rights until after conviction and appeal. From the AP story covering this:

Gov. Rick Perry, Texas courts and the Texas attorney general's office all said the execution should go forward and that Medellin has had multiple legal reviews. State officials noted Medellin never invoked his consular rights under the Vienna Convention until some four years after he was convicted.

He never denied the brutal rape and killing. He played the Vienna convention card only when he thought it would get him out of capital punishment. He got what he deserved.

Personally, I think that Texas officials should have allowed Mexican consular officials to visit him. They should have presented the evidence, the appellate process, etc. to the Mexican authorities. Plus, a copy of the laws under which a murderer is subject to in this country. The man didn't have to be here. He's here; he lives by our laws. He dies by our laws. Show the consulate all the evidence. Then fry the guy anyway.

As cold hearted as it sounds, if you don't like what Mexican authorities are going to do to you under their laws, don't go there. American tourists don't have a right to force their ways on another sovereign country any more than the other country's citizens have a right to force their ways and laws on us.

[AZhitman]

Well-stated.

[skylndrftr]

but we agreed to the Vienna convention. The Congress is the only party able to approve treaties and this was approved by them. they violated the rules of an agreed upon treaty. States rights do not trump federal rights. They are a state of the US, they are bound by our rules laws and treaties.

[Soravia]

The guy lived for FIFTEEN YEARS after gang raping and mercilessly killing the two girls using belts (broke the belt) and shoe laces around the neck as they begged for their lives. What more does he want?

His trial gave him all the opportunities to defend himself, but he didn't. That's his own doing as much as he did the crime. It was not as if he was put in a closed secret trial without anyone to represent him. (Think China)

Oh yeah, you should see the pics of those anti-death penalty protesters. I don't know from what kind of conscious they were protesting with.

We should ask Barack Obama for his holy guidance on this issue.

[heliochrome85]

thanks for finding a way to bring in BO on the subject. un. freaking. believeable.

[skylndrftr]

The guy lived for FIFTEEN YEARS after gang raping and mercilessly killing the two girls using belts (broke the belt) and shoe laces around the neck as they begged for their lives. What more does he want?

Its not about what he wants, its about whats right. He probably doesn't want to be in jail period but obviously... What purpose does it serve besides vengence to kill somebody for killing someone? Thank you, but Hippocrates is a little old for my taste.

Quote »(Think Guantanomo)[/quote] fixed

Quote »Oh yeah, you should see the pics of those anti-death penalty protesters. I don't know from what kind of conscious they were protesting with.[/quote] maybe the conscious that killing isn't okay EVER. You act like they think what he did was OK...

Quote »We should ask Barack Obama for his holy guidance on this issue.[/quote]didn't JMcM tell you? Obama's the antichrist

[Soravia]

Obama is in anti-death penalty club. Why not? Well actually he's 'Sort of, kind of' in the anti-death penalty club. When the popular opinion supports death penalty, such as child rapist, he's all for death penalty. And he claims to bring 'new politics' to Washington, go figure.

If it wasn't for the constitution, I would say go for life sentence for those rapist murder instead of death penalty. Albeit with weekly caning in Singapore style. Death sentence by drug injection is too kind, it should only be reserved for putting down sick animals.

As for the consulate issue, the defendent didn't ask for it. It was not as if he asked for it and was denied. He was just trying to get away with a mis-trial like OJ.

[rn79870]

Obama is in anti-death penalty club. Why not? Well actually he's 'Sort of, kind of' in the anti-death penalty club. When the popular opinion supports death penalty, such as child rapist, he's all for death penalty. And he claims to bring 'new politics' to Washington, go figure.

What you see as sort of, kind of is really someone who has a line drawn in a different position on the scale than you do. That is, for some crimes it might be appropriate but for others it isn't. Everybody in America fits that description and has a point at which they feel capital punishment is appropriate. IE, somewhere between shoplifting and multiple murders of children is a point where an individual feels the crime is heinous enough to justify capital punishment. Obama's no different.

If it wasn't for the constitution, I would say go for life sentence for those rapist murder instead of death penalty. Albeit with weekly caning in Singapore style. Death sentence by drug injection is too kind, it should only be reserved for putting down sick animals.

The Constitution doesn't prohibit life sentences. It protects the innocent and the guilty alike.

As for the consulate issue, the defendent didn't ask for it. It was not as if he asked for it and was denied. He was just trying to get away with a mis-trial like OJ.

He didn't know enough to ask for it. He was not aware of his rights as he was not a US citizen. It was the obligation of the government to notify the Mexican consulate of his incarceration, and they failed at that. Let me ask it this way. If the situation was reversed, and this happened to an American citizen in Turkey, would you feel different?

[Soravia]

You say Obama is no different than others in common idea about death sentence. I see it differently. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...itics

He set out against death penalty on gang related crimes because it will get more 'colored people' convicted that way. If you don't call that pandering, I wonder what is? We have Mexican drug gangs over running the towns south of the border. They have HUGE influence here in the states, at least on the street level. That's just Mexican dugs gangs, Triads are coming in by bits, Mafia is not really gone either. If those criminals are just going in and out of jail with revolving doors, how can anyone be safe? How will you stop the crime?

Would the Turkey government hold the person for 15 years after death sentence to allow for appeals and so on? Texas did.
Modified by Soravia at 6:23 PM 8/7/2008

[rn79870]

Probably not. But much of his appeal was addressing the issue of whether he was entitled to speak to his consulate. That would probably have done little good other than satisfying international law.

Think about the other question. How would you be posting now if it had been an American that was executed overseas after being denied access to the American Consulate.

[skylndrftr]

Obama is in anti-death penalty club. Why not? Well actually he's 'Sort of, kind of' in the anti-death penalty club. When the popular opinion supports death penalty, such as child rapist, he's all for death penalty. And he claims to bring 'new politics' to Washington, go figure.

Irrelevant to the question at hand, and despite you misrepresenting him, Bush was against executing this joker... The man is against the death penalty but he understands there are people who disagree with him. Its possile to be morally opposed to something, but still vote for it. If thats what your constituency wants, that would make you a good and honest public servant.

Quote »If it wasn't for the constitution, I would say go for life sentence for those rapist murder instead of death penalty. Albeit with weekly caning in Singapore style. Death sentence by drug injection is too kind, it should only be reserved for putting down sick animals.[/quote] And thats why there is a constitution! Because the founders wanted this country to be a better place. Unfortunately, your want of blood over justice just shows the vital importance of that piece of paper you hate.

[Soravia]

Probably not. But much of his appeal was addressing the issue of whether he was entitled to speak to his consulate. That would probably have done little good other than satisfying international law.

Think about the other question. How would you be posting now if it had been an American that was executed overseas after being denied access to the American Consulate.

DENIED is the key word. He was not DENIED. Just not OFFERED. He was GRANTED a lot of legal options and time. Just not ALL his options were OFFERED.

I know that a lot of paper works for immigrants legal or not, SAY so that the immigrants are allowed to have legal advice and translation of their choosing, including from their respective consulate.

I didn't say I hated that part of the Constitution. I was just saying how it tied the hands of justice. If it was written differently, there could be humane, yet punishing ways to deliver justice other than feel meal, boarding, entertainment, study and health service. Being caned for example is a very good way to make someone reflect on the pain and fear their victims felt. It's not like being boiled alive or anything. Until very recently in history, caning is globally accepted form of punishment for children who needs to be disciplined. Wether it works best or not is not the issue, but it made sure they know what punishment is like.