Test pipes on a 37?

[SteveTheTech]

Why would anyone in the right mind put test pipes on a brand new G37? Its a $45,000 plus vehicle and that is by far the quickest way to void your warranty. I am not sure what exactly a new long block would cost but is it really worth it for the marginal gain in HP?

When the ECM sets the inevidable PO420, PO430 it will alter your fuel map and ignition timing most likely negating any gain.

Plus it will fail most state emission isnpections due to illegal exhaust mods. I am hoping some of you guys can enlighten me I am confused

[SneaKe]

I read the title and came in to . There is no reason to destroy any G with stink pipes. They might as well install hood mounted LED light-up windshield squirters...

[joe603]

Don't see how it would void the warranty unless a problem is caused by the exhaust. Some people just like to do every little mod to get HP. Personally, I don't mess with the exhaust from the CATs up...

[Sentientbydesign]

I started the day off on the wrong foot, so please keep that in mind before you go flame me.

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I personally think those who install test pipes on DD cars are irresponsible. The difference in gains between the test pipes and HFC are neglible. It's just a cheap way to make lots of noise and pollute more. If the O2 sensors catch on, your gains are POOP!

I am curious what gains can be had from swapping out the resonator though. Is there any purpose for it, other than sound?

[Omegamerc]

Test pipes are fail, the amount of fumes that come out of an engine, I don't understand how people live w/that smell. I DID put HFCs on my 08G35, same gains minus the stink.

[SteveTheTech]

See my issue is also with the HFCs as well, it will still void your warranty. Is it worth it? HFCs will still set efficiency codes causing the engine to run like crap.

[joe603]

some people are just...ignorant. There are people who put on huge fart cans and "whistlers" for exhaust tips...

[BrandAidDesignG35]

This seems like a green environmental thread, and I too agree... I was thinking when I clicked on the link, wait, why?!? Who would do this to a G37?

If I get some $$$, may go for HFCs, not looking to pollute any more than necessary My warranty is gone anyway

[Jacko3]

I don't see how testpipes will cause voiding a warranty ordinarily if going for say, an oil change or air filter replacement. However, while under warranty, if anything goes wrong with the engine, and the test pipe is seen---warranty is voided---just confirmed this with my dealership. I am told that to work on the engine, owner will need to swap out the test pipe before taking the car to dealer for service. Again, the idea of test pipes maybe similar to the idea of cold air intakes, plenum, and spacers which we once feared would void the warranties of our cars. We all know now that this is not the case---I have these mods installed on my car and the car runs great.

And so it raises the question, why is a test pipe as a modification, any more dangerous than a cold air intake, spacer of catback exhaust, which all do alter the manufacturers original performance setting for the car, and which all have been shown to be harmless on our cars?

Here is a website with installation http://forums.evolutionm.net/s...14931

The CEL fix seems to be in ever growing acceptance. Other than the smell of the exhaust and possibly slightly worse gas mileage, I don't beleive a test pipe affects an engine that badly or causes it to run badly---just confirmed this from my dealership--test pipe just allows for freer flowing gases which causes our cars to run a little more rich than normal (reduction in MPG). So, with spacers, cold air intakes, and Mrevv installed, which causes a car to run leaner, I think a test pipe, and a cat back exahaust, and possibly a header, retards or reverses the leanness from the intake portion, slightly, by running richer, which in essence brings the engine back to a possible state of balance. It maybe a good idea, if one wants to go NA to do the whole install in intake (Cold Air intake, spacer, mrevv, etc) and exhaust (headers, test pipes, cat back exhaust), so that they are balanced out, as it relates to the rich-lean Air Fuel mixture. I can see how re-tuning a car with this set up is a good idea.

I also found out that test pipse do reduce torque below 3500RPM or at the low end, but increase horsepower at the top end. I understand our cats cause some back pressure which does help with increased low end torque.

I beleive trucks spew out more dirt than cars becasue they use diesel.

Yes, the ECU will throw the inevidable PO420, PO430 codes, but then, one is advised to reset the ECU with the hand computer or by disconnecting the battery.

Gas powered cars will never provide clean environments---it is just a hoax. Diesel trains, ship liners, and 18-wheeler trucks, spew out more dirt than a single or a street of cars would ever do with test pipes.

I stand corrected.



Modified by Jacko3 at 1:55 PM 9/10/2008
Modified by Jacko3 at 1:59 PM 9/10/2008

[SteveTheTech]

Ok so the link that you posted was for an EVO forum, the EVO is a turbo car. Turbo cars run more efficiently with no exhaust restrictions. A naturally aspirated car like most Gs do not and since the ECM is designed for for the factory cats the O2 sensors DTC detection parameters are quite tight. Thus the re occurring PO430/420 will persist. Removing the battery cable is not a fix just a band aid for a user created problem. This will also reset the base parameters like APP close position and idle volume learning. Here is the basics of how a cat actually works. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/...3.htm

As for the warranty issue.

A vehicle warranty is there to repair any defect that results from a flaw or problem with the manufacturing process or original parts on the car. Removing the factory emissions controls is not only illegal but it is no longer a factory defect. If they were there the car would not set the CEL.

Oh an the comment about diesel engines being more harmful to the enviroment than if every car had no exhaust controls. Here is a segment from http://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel3.htm "In terms of the environment, diesel has some pros and cons. The pros -- diesel emits very small amounts of carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons and carbon dioxide, emissions that lead to global warming. The cons -- high amounts of nitrogen compounds and particulate matter (soot) are released from burning diesel fuel" . While they are not the cleanest running vehicles on the road they emit different emissions than gasoline engines.

Any emission control tampering will result in much higher CO, and HC levels. Putting a cat back is one thing but removing the factory designed ones is just not smart. The VQ35VHR is designed to use valve overlap instead of an EGR system to control HC levels and NoX by lowering combustion chamber temperatures by drawing some of the exhaust gasses back into the combustion chamber.

Just a thought.

[Jacko3]

I would generally agree! But, then how come the 03 and 04 Gs VQ35DE did not have the CEL problem with test pipes? I have a friend with a test pipe who has an 03 coupe and has no CEL issues for years. Any reason for this?

I posted the EVO forum link because they were having the same CEL issues we were having. Apparently, having a turbo did not make much of a difference. And the idea of a CEL fix came from other autos well before the G-35. I actually heard the CEL fixes came from the Honda crowd---I don't know how true this is.

I don't know how the ECU is designed. But I cannot completely accept that the parameters or variables the ECU measures in a G-35 is drastically different from the parameters of other cars. Perhaps, the values of the measurments is what might differ drastically from other cars, but i doubt that is the case with the actual parameters and variables being measured.

Also, I know that soot from diesel has a lot to do with asthma and respiratory problems.

I have no idea how a VQ35HR would respond to a test pipe. In fact, on many websites, the test pipes for the G-37 is seperately sold. In fact, I came across a website that gave 100% assurance that its test pipe for the G-37 will never lead to a CEL--they had a weird bong noozle by the side of the test pipe---I can't remember the website.

Anyway Steve, thanks for the info! I feel very stone age, as I am surprised that the EGR technology is no more in modern day cars---G-37. Its amazing how quickly technology moves. I want the old days back.

[SteveTheTech]

The older models may have used wider detection parameters before setting a PO420/430.In order to make more efficient running vehicles the federal standards have been made more stringent from year to year. The CEL will set when the ESM detects a failed cat regardless of the make and model it is OBDII logic that all cars must have. I am not 100% on this but a CEL will usually set when outlet emissions exceed 20% of federal spec.

Does your friend have cheaters installed in place of the down stream O2 sensors? Some HFCs do actually work as cats, although still not legal they may work but are not covered under the 80K warranty the factory ones are. The original reason for this thread was to address the warranty issues on a brand new car. Regardless of what type they are if they are not stock they are not warranty.

[Jacko3]

No, he only has the spark plug anti-foulers installed. Again, i would agree with you! Thanks for the info.

[SteveTheTech]

Nissan stopped using the EGR a long time ago I think the last car to come with it was the I30 and pre02 Q45, oh and the QX4 until 01ish. Since that they have used valve overlap and highly efficient cats and post cats.

As for the asthma I whole heatedly agree with you that carbon emissions do have negative effects on the respiratory system. I have seen many breathing problems in guys I have worked with that have been in it for decades in my line work that can be attributed to brake dust and other airborne hazards. Over time the rules have been changed and the emissions are being cleaned up so that someday in the distant future we will be able to clean the mess we have made in the last 150 years.

[SteveTheTech]

Spark plug antifoulers? I have never heard of this does it attach to the plug.

Its time for another trip to Google. (I knew I would get to use that someday)

[SteveTheTech]

Ok so I looked this up and here is how it works. By installing these spacers you are effectively reducing the sampling amount of the downstream O2 sensors.If the senors only see 2% of the air going by it should not exceed DTC levels. Its a slick F'ing trick if I may say so. lol that just cant be legal.I still am not convinced that it makes the car run better though.

[Jacko3]

Steve:

I like you. You are a great guy! . Like you, It took me a while to ever consider wikipedia or Google. I thought by going there to search for stuff, my computer would explode

I don't even have a friggin cellphone and my car G-35 coupe has bluetooth capability, can you beleive that? I am really stone age.

Yes, some really slick people in the underworld came up with ways to reduce the amount of exhaust the 02 comes in contact with. It is still illegal anyway, but worth the try for a small moment in life---we al have to live our bliss, and mine today is a test pipe. I think in the end, most humans are not entirely law abiding, including me and the cops who claim to be that way.

[SteveTheTech]

I have to compliment the use of rolling smiley faces as I had to read that post five times to get it, that how stone age I am! lol Just awesome.

I do in fact envy your lack of cell phone, once you get one you will never be able to be without. You are entitled to your happiness and I hope that we all achieve it.

I should have been more specific in my OP and mentioned HFCs more than test pipes, just don't be surprised if you have any warranty issues.

[Jacko3]

Steve:

You are the man! You are a great guy!

Don't mind my crazy way of talking or afixing the rolling smiley faces! I even get more crazy once I take a drive in my car---I usually get out of the car, after a driving episode, all glassy-eyed and smiling like a confused Indonesian monkey.

[Sentientbydesign]

I can appreciate your position on not having a cell phone, but I completely disagree. I think they are one of the best things I carry with me. I've carried one for about 6 years now and I've only had 3 days (max) without one. Most of the time because I forgot it.

Having my phone, texts, camera, internet, and email in one device is almost heaven.

Back to HFCs. Are there none that work as effectively as the factory ones?

[SteveTheTech]

While I cannot say with absolute certainty one way or another about individual products. I would wager a guess on no since anything other than factory are not covered under warranty.

smiley faces are the best part of the internet LOL

As a side note:I am not a tree hugging hippie by any stretch of the imagination so don't take this as an "green attack" on the forum. Alternative energy is the way to go and will someday be mainstream. Until the day when they can make a re-useable hybrid battery that is not 700LBS of waste in a few years I am not totally sold on the benifits of hybrids.

[Jacko3]

Steve:

I love that Chinese bunny hoping around. Er...... where did you get that bunny?

[Jacko3]

Nate:

One day while I was outside, someone asked me if they could use my cell phone. I told them I did not have one, and have never had one before. They looked at me with a gaze of disbeleif. I think they thought I was just being mean. Most people don't beleive that there are still humans out there who have not assimilated into the 21st century. I am one of them.

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

Ok I thought it before... but now it is official!

JackO is Crazy!

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

I think test pipes are ok if the cats go bad! but that is the only time! I am by no mean green in any way but I don't think we should add more pollution than we have to! Lets try to keep this place as green as possible!

DJ

[SteveTheTech]

Its in the full icon list. I have been waiting to use that one since I saw it. I don't know where it's appropriate but it's just awesome.

I think test pipes are ok if the cats go bad! but that is the only time! I am by no mean green in any way but I don't think we should add more pollution than we have to! Lets try to keep this place as green as possible!

DJ

Yep that's the truth, but they should not go bad for a long time unless you are having running issues. A PO300-306 can destroy a cat in a matter of minutes though if there is no ignition and raw fuel gets into the honeycomb.

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

good to know!

[phil4watching]

I have test pipes and nothing smells. My car smells normal. HFC's are the same thing just don't get a smell and HFC's are about $300 more expensive.

Chris

[Jacko3]

Tampa:

Thats right! How else can i explain why I have a 55 inch tv but no cable to watch it---I don't have cable at home. I have been asking myself this question for years. The answer refuses to reveal itself to me.

[Jacko3]

Phil:

I might be joining you hopefully by next week, once I get my test pipes. I really don't care if my o2 sensors evaporate from the bong in the test pipe. I only get one chance to drive a car as exciting as a G.