Test pipe vs. Headers

[Dazzla]

So i've currently got a apexi n1, and a hi-flow cat. I'm looking at gaining the few extra hp, and most importantly more sound lol. I'm thinking that the test pipe wont be much different then my hi-flow cat?

buy headers or a test pipe? what do you guys think? which headers are good? lol

[Wc240]

good quality headers. no obx. lol at a testpipe gaining you power

[bersh240]

headers.looks+performancecant lose.

[OM3GA]

Headers because if you are installing Two you magically have a more powerful engine.

[jeff420]

good quality headers. no obx. lol at a testpipe gaining you power

my obx header has lasted me just fine. testpipe could free up some restriction but on an n/a motor it wouldnt be noticeable, except being annoyingly loud.

[RCA]

So i've currently got a apexi n1, and a hi-flow cat. I'm looking at gaining the few extra hp, and most importantly more sound lol. I'm thinking that the test pipe wont be much different then my hi-flow cat?

buy headers or a test pipe? what do you guys think? which headers are good? lol

Not sure of your setup but because your asking headers or test pipe I assume you have a N/A motor...

Headers will add a few (4-5hp) at best. As for the test pipe, experiments have shown that adding a test pipe to a stock N/A vehicle will most likely reduce back pressure and you will loose power. Not only that, you would also be polluting the environment with NOx and other nasty things that would in most cases be absorbed by your cat converter. Stick with just headers so at least this way you can pass emissions.

Edit:My car with headers and test pipe = STUPID loud and still slowhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WxEwsCKX9w

[TheRealNap0le0n]

Not sure of your setup but because your asking headers or test pipe I assume you have a N/A motor...

Headers will add a few (4-5hp) at best. As for the test pipe, experiments have shown that adding a test pipe to a stock N/A vehicle will most likely reduce back pressure and you will loose power. Not only that, you would also be polluting the environment with NOx and other nasty things that would in most cases be absorbed by your cat converter. Stick with just headers so at least this way you can pass emissions.

Edit:My car with headers and test pipe = STUPID loud and still slowhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WxEwsCKX9w

having back pressure is not beneficial to power...

ppl associate the loss of BP that comes with a large free flowing exhaust with a loss in torque and power but it is in fact the change in resonance and tuning.

IE think of the exhaust like an instrument. the larger exhaust piping changes the flow characteristics and the scavenging effects.

What you need is a free flowing exhaust with little or no BP but also help with flow and scavenging

[PEZi]

headers are a better investment than a test pipe for sure... but depending on what your goals are BOTH can be a good thing...

basically, headers first... then test pipe

i'm not sure which headers are best for the 240 however

basically, removing the cat will free up a few more HP (not much) but at the same time the loss of backpressure reduces your torque a bit (also not much) which is the loss of 'power' some people feel... basically gain a few high end, lose a few mid range.... you decide what works best for you

[Dazzla]

Not sure of your setup but because your asking headers or test pipe I assume you have a N/A motor...

Headers will add a few (4-5hp) at best. As for the test pipe, experiments have shown that adding a test pipe to a stock N/A vehicle will most likely reduce back pressure and you will loose power. Not only that, you would also be polluting the environment with NOx and other nasty things that would in most cases be absorbed by your cat converter. Stick with just headers so at least this way you can pass emissions.

Edit:My car with headers and test pipe = STUPID loud and still slowhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WxEwsCKX9w

Your car sounds awesome lol

I think ill pickup a test pipe and see how that feels as test pipes are cheaper and easier to find then decent headers

[TheRealNap0le0n]

Your car sounds awesome lol

I think ill pickup a test pipe and see how that feels as test pipes are cheaper and easier to find then decent headers

you wont feel anything from a test pipe unless you have a fairly clogged cat.... you'd be surprised how good factory cats flow....

your car WILL get ungodly loud... you'd be surprised.

Getting back to the discussion, the reason that exhaust valves burn is because the engine is burning lean. Normal engines will tolerate lean burning for a little bit, but not for sustained periods of time. The reason why the engine is burning lean to begin with is that the reduction in backpressure is causing more air to be drawn into the combustion chamber than before. Earlier cars (and motorcycles) with carburetion often could not adjust because of the way that backpressure caused air to flow backwards through the carburetor after the air already got loaded down with fuel, and caused the air to receive a second load of fuel. While a bad design, it was nonetheless used in a lot of vehicles. Once these vehicles received performance mods that reduced backpressure, they no longer had that double-loading effect, and then tended to burn valves because of the resulting over-lean condition. This, incidentally, also provides a basis for the "torque increase" seen if backpressure is maintained. As the fuel/air mixture becomes leaner, the resultant combustion will produce progressively less and less of the force needed to produce torque.

[Ajax]

Please don't get a test pipe looking for more power- if you've already got a hi-flow cat, you won't notice anything. Plus it could be illegal for you to delete the cat- check your laws!An OBX header may be okay for a low state of tune (stock internals, fuel system etc.), if you've got some other work going on in your engine, a proper custom header will be more appropriate (and more expensive). Sadly, there's not much else out there because so few people keep NA KA.I'd recommend looking at other ways to improve the car. When I got an exhaust and lightened flywheel (on my then stock engine) things started to feel much better.

[RCA]

having back pressure is not beneficial to

Not sure where you got your info from but I have seen the results dynoed that prove otherwise.

[Dazzla]

Lol test pipe sounds really good to me. I want my car to be loud lol the only question that remains is will a test pipe be louder then a hi-flow cat?

[drewce]

Test pipe %99.9 sure

[RCA]

Lol test pipe sounds really good to me. I want my car to be loud lol the only question that remains is will a test pipe be louder then a hi-flow cat?

Just a test-pipe and it will become louder.

For maximum annoyance the formula would be headers+test pipe+catbat exhaust= Police once a week.

[RustspecS13]

Screw putting in a test pipe. That's the worst thing you can do. I know your going for volume but it changes the tone even more. It sounds like a ricey honda bees and resonating and all.

It was the worst change I did to my sohc. I wish I could have still used the factory cat because it drove so much better. Sounded better and it didn't annoy me or destroy your hearing at 3K on the highway.

If you really want loud don't be a puss. Get 4in header back.

~Alex

[nismoracingsx]

test pipes cause a LOSS in power...hands down. Its been proven and I was even pleased to see it featured in a magazine recently with dyno backing it on multiple test runs..i believe it was modified or superstreet or something of the sort. Here at Bagram we're a little behind on our issues, but I assure you the test pipe will only hurt you..

[Ajax]

I want my car to be loud

You confuse me, 4 months ago you started a thread to find a subtle exhaust. Now you don't care as long as its loud. zerothread?id=450376Good luck.

[Jagstang]

Your car sounds awesome lol

I think ill pickup a test pipe and see how that feels as test pipes are cheaper and easier to find then decent headers

Hey man, remember, your car and mine are exact twins, and I have a test pipe on my 3" Blitz Nur Spec R exhaust. It makes it sound very throaty, and after installing it, the car felt much much smoother, and it seems to move very fast compared to before when I just take my foot off the clutch in gear 1.

Screw the headers, it will make your car sound like crap, and on top of all that, the HP gain is peanuts for such an expensive part. Not worth it at all.

By the way, I have a stainless steel circuit sport test pipe that I bought from PDM racing. It came up to $78 after everything, and it's great, no bungs, just pure emptiness.

Lol test pipe sounds really good to me. I want my car to be loud lol the only question that remains is will a test pipe be louder then a hi-flow cat?

Oh hell yes SON. After installing mine, it definitely got a s*** load louder in both idling, and when accelerating (huge loudness factor in acceleration).

Screw putting in a test pipe. That's the worst thing you can do. I know your going for volume but it changes the tone even more. It sounds like a ricey honda bees and resonating and all.

It was the worst change I did to my sohc. I wish I could have still used the factory cat because it drove so much better. Sounded better and it didn't annoy me or destroy your hearing at 3K on the highway.

If you really want loud don't be a puss. Get 4in header back.

~Alex

Oh man, please, don't compare your KA24E to an S14's KA24DE with a way better stock cam setup. . . My S14 sounds like a muscle car with a test pipe. I really need to take a video to show how my car sounds, you guys would s*** bricks.
Modified by Jagstang at 3:03 PM 1/22/2010

[TheRealNap0le0n]

Hey man, remember, your car and mine are exact twins, and I have a test pipe on my 3" Blitz Nur Spec R exhaust. It makes it sound very throaty, and after installing it, the car felt much much smoother, and it seems to move very fast compared to before when I just take my foot off the clutch in gear 1.

Screw the headers, it will make your car sound like crap, and on top of all that, the HP gain is peanuts for such an expensive part. Not worth it at all.

By the way, I have a stainless steel circuit sport test pipe that I bought from PDM racing. It came up to $78 after everything , and it's great, no bungs, just pure emptiness.

Oh hell yes SON. After installing mine, it definitely got a s*** load louder in both idling, and when accelerating (huge loudness factor in acceleration).

how's it feel to get a** raped for $80 for a pipe that costs $15 on ebay..... its just a pipe.....

Not sure where you got your info from but I have seen the results dynoed that prove otherwise.

how is backpressure good at all.... its a force that prevents exhaust gasses from coming out the tail... any back pressure is cause some exhaust gasses to stay in the combustion chamber... exhaust gasses which are not combustible aka make no power

if back pressure was good at all im sure racing teams would design some into they're systems.... but then again last time i checked an 8000hp dragster had like 5 inches of exhaust pipe and thats it... but then again what do i know

[Jagstang]

how's it feel to get a** raped for $80 for a pipe that costs $15 on ebay..... its just a pipe.....

I know it was a little expensive, but I don't trust s*** from Ebay. Ever since a friend tried to buy a respirator off of ebay, and got rocks in the box, I just can't risk it.

Plus, besides Ebay, the price I bought it for was great compared to s*** on craigslist, and legitimate parts site etc.

[TheRealNap0le0n]

I know it was a little expensive, but I don't trust s*** from Ebay. Ever since a friend tried to buy a respirator off of ebay, and got rocks in the box, I just can't risk it.

Plus, besides Ebay, the price I bought it for was great compared to s*** on craigslist, and legitimate parts site etc.

i hear that... i ride a sport bike and a friend asked me to order him a helmet from egay.... he gave me the link and everything... said it was an ICON brand helmet...

syke it was cheap feeling and and wouldnt have even worn it on a bicycle. and it came packaged with a dog biscuit for some reason...

but for like $20 you could of had a muffler shop make you a test pipe

[Initial_R90]

headers? i didnt know the KA was a v-6 ,

anyways

test pipes and headers gonna make your car scream you will gain top end but lose alot of low end with no BPn/a needs BP turbo cars need none

my 350 with test's y pipe and JIC single sounded amazing and highway pulls were fun but digs were not the greatest didnt get power till after like 4k

[TheRealNap0le0n]

headers? i didnt know the KA was a v-6 ,

anyways

test pipes and headers gonna make your car scream you will gain top end but lose alot of low end with no BPn/a needs BP turbo cars need none

my 350 with test's y pipe and JIC single sounded amazing and highway pulls were fun but digs were not the greatest didnt get power till after like 4k

... more mis-information. the changes in the exhaust affect the exhaust pulse tuning.... moving the powerband up.... BP is not good

[Dazzla]

Hey man, remember, your car and mine are exact twins, and I have a test pipe on my 3" Blitz Nur Spec R exhaust. It makes it sound very throaty, and after installing it, the car felt much much smoother, and it seems to move very fast compared to before when I just take my foot off the clutch in gear 1.

Screw the headers, it will make your car sound like crap, and on top of all that, the HP gain is peanuts for such an expensive part. Not worth it at all.

By the way, I have a stainless steel circuit sport test pipe that I bought from PDM racing. It came up to $78 after everything, and it's great, no bungs, just pure emptiness.

Oh hell yes SON. After installing mine, it definitely got a s*** load louder in both idling, and when accelerating (huge loudness factor in acceleration).

Oh man, please, don't compare your KA24E to an S14's KA24DE with a way better stock cam setup. . . My S14 sounds like a muscle car with a test pipe. I really need to take a video to show how my car sounds, you guys would s*** bricks.

Modified by Jagstang at 3:03 PM 1/22/2010

I know what you mean my s14 sounds pretty rumbly as it is, it sounds more like a Subaru WRX then a raspy 2 liter lol. Post up a video. I'll probably go with a test pipe too. Probably the mild steel one as I don't care about how it looks versus stainless steel lol

[Initial_R90]

who are you again..

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question172.htm

pretty much BP from a stock manifold is no good dosent say anything about muffler or test pipe

have you ever driven a car with stright pipes? you step on the gas the rpm's go up but your car dosent move untill higher rpm's

I drove home my ls1 s13 from FLA to NJ on open headers and let me tell you the car didnt move untill i hooked up the rest of it up

[Initial_R90]

... more mis-information. the changes in the exhaust affect the exhaust pulse tuning.... moving the powerband up.... BP is not good

how is this miss infomation when I said you gain top end and lose low end

dosent that mean your powerband moves up..

[TheRealNap0le0n]

who are you again..

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question172.htm

pretty much BP from a stock manifold is no good dosent say anything about muffler or test pipe

have you ever driven a car with stright pipes? you step on the gas the rpm's go up but your car dosent move untill higher rpm's

I drove home my ls1 s13 from FLA to NJ on open headers and let me tell you the car didnt move untill i hooked up the rest of it up

you posted a link that supports my point exactly...

back pressure in the system is back pressure all the same. Lets bring physics into this... pressure in a system is equal through out the whole system...

IE: if theres back pressure in the "cat" the "muffler" or the "manifold" its all the same....

they specifically mention the manifold due to the fact that factory manifolds suck and cause alot of reversion or in laymans terms they make the exhaust gas back up into the cylinder.

that being said your LS1 s13 was a dog for the same reason my camaro was a dog open headers.... the lack of a full exhaust on the vehicle pushed the powerband up into an unreasonable RPM range for street driving. it has nothing to do with back pressure, but EVERYTHING to to with the TUNING of the exhuast.

you dont just slap an exhaust together and make a great powerband. it all has to do with tuning. Pipe diameter, shape, bends, etc.

[Space Monkey]

How many times is this going to be debated?

TheRealNapOleon is correct in saying that any back pressure is BAD and REDUCES power. Also note he states that you need to TUNE your engine for appropriate modifications for it to work or the power-band will be ridiculous.

In a twisted way...the back pressure is "good" as it causes the power-band to stay in spec while keeping a quiet vehicle. But it is still BAD because it is still robbing you of HP and Torque!

For this reason, when you get a new 3" cat back and a hi flow exhaust, with an intake and maybe some new stage 2 cams you will notice some extra power but not as much as if you got your car tuned to use these parts to their potential.

[TheRealNap0le0n]

How many times is this going to be debated?

TheRealNapOleon is correct in saying that any back pressure is BAD and REDUCES power. Also note he states that you need to TUNE your engine for appropriate modifications for it to work or the power-band will be ridiculous.

In a twisted way...the back pressure is "good" as it causes the power-band to stay in spec while keeping a quiet vehicle. But it is still BAD because it is still robbing you of HP and Torque!

For this reason, when you get a new 3" cat back and a hi flow exhaust, with an intake and maybe some new stage 2 cams you will notice some extra power but not as much as if you got your car tuned to use these parts to their potential.

Finally someone gets what im sayin...

and you're close...

the reason adding a high flow cat or high flow muffler adds HP but feels like you may be losing low end is that you are changing the flow characteristics of the exhaust...

IE skinny water hose, high pressure low flow.... fat water hose = hi flow, low pressure