Teen Pregnancy

[telcoman]

Here are some facts

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_ATSRH.html

Abstinence appears to not be the correct choice as it does not work

Fair and balanced

http://blog.beliefnet.com/crun....html

Telcoman
Modified by telcoman at 5:33 AM 9/2/2008

[audtatious]

I agree abstinence does not work. I propose to have every female child to be implanted with a birth control device that stays until they get married.

[joe603]

There was a great episode of Showtime's Bullsh*t on how abstinence just doesn't work (and it's BS). Kids are going to have sex...the best thing to do is to teach proper condom use to avoid the spread of disease/pregnancy.

[szh]

I agree that abstinence does not work for teens. Humans, being what they are, will get in trouble in this manner all the time.

So, yeah, we may be in agreement on that point.

Z

[HashiriyaS14]

Wow, Republicans agreeing with Democrats!!!

There's hope after all.

It's good to see people be honest with themselves and come across the aisle to agree once in awhile.

Hopefully some of the more...er..."excitable" Obama supporters can bring themselves to do the same once in awhile, and maybe we'll all benefit via more civilized debates.

And for what it's worth, personally, I agree, abstinence doesn't work, and it should be about what works, not about what's ideologically appealing.

[audtatious]

the best thing to do is to teach proper condom use to avoid the spread of disease/pregnancy.

The question is how to do that. In the school system my wife just moved out of (after we got married) they are doing the "condom on a banana" routine to the 13 year old girls but not the boys. This is totally inapporpriate in a school setting.

[audtatious]

Wow, Republicans agreeing with Democrats!!!

It happens. IMO it seems in regards to most things (other than religion and abortion) that a lot of issues could be resolved by more "meet in the middle" phylosophy. Unfortunately that simply is not going to happen when you have pig-headed people in Congress.

[szh]

IMO it seems in regards to most things (other than religion and abortion) that a lot of issues could be resolved by more "meet in the middle" phylosophy.

I believe in this strongly too! Irrational positions on either side tends to lead to impasse.

Z

[szh]

I agree that abstinence does not work for teens. Humans, being what they are, will get in trouble in this manner all the time.

So, yeah, we may be in agreement on that point.

Z

EDIT: I did not look at those links to see if they were indeed fair or impartial. I am merely agreeing on the reality of abstinence. For some people, it works ... but others, not.

[HashiriyaS14]

It happens. IMO it seems in regards to most things (other than religion and abortion) that a lot of issues could be resolved by more "meet in the middle" phylosophy. Unfortunately that simply is not going to happen when you have pig-headed people in Congress.

Yep, both sides are equally guilty of this.

Privately, even the vaunted and feared Newt Gingrich was a person generally prone to want to do cross-aisle deals, however ultimately the source of his power had been his searing attacks, and it's always hard for someone to tone down that which has made them "great".

Bob Dole was the same way. I think he would've made a GREAT President (I supported him enthusiastically at the time), although he had to block a lot of good Clinton legislation, stuff he agreed with, just because it was good politics.

On the reverse, the current Democratic congress is plenty guilty too, as was the Democratic congress under G H W Bush.

People change when they get to Washington, unfortunately. Politics takes precedence over policy much too often.

[dusred]

Abstinence does work to avoid teen pregnancy. Is what you all mean is that it doesn't happen

Here in St. George, a small Mormon town, it does happen more then in other places, and though I am not a Mormon I totally respect those who have the balls to abstain.

And those who don't should be totally educated on the use of Condoms and other birth control so they don't find themselves murdering their babies.

Condoms > Abortion

[audtatious]

There is a big misconception that Republicans are all closed-minded bible thumpers who think that only abstinance-related education should be taught. I honestly don't know any Republicans that think that way today although I'm sure they exist just as I'm sure there are Democrats that think kids should be able to make the decision that 12yo's are old enough to have sex.

My wife is very open with her daughter concerning sex and relationships. We are not stupid as we were young once as well and fully understand the pressures and what hormones do. My daughters were on birth control while in high school more as a precation than anything. You can tell kids all day long that having sex too early is bad but once "love" gets in the picture then most restraint goes out the window.

[szh]

Abstinence does work to avoid teen pregnancy. Is what you all mean is that it doesn't happen

Uhhh ... yeah ... good correction. Abstinence, if practiced, does work.

The problem, as you noted, is that it is kinda tough for teens to actually be abstinent.

Z

[HashiriyaS14]

There is a big misconception that Republicans are all closed-minded bible thumpers who think that only abstinance-related education should be taught. I honestly don't know any Republicans that think that way today although I'm sure they exist just as I'm sure there are Democrats that think kids should be able to make the decision that 12yo's are old enough to have sex.

Well, I know a few Republicans who think that way, lol. I also know a few Democrats who are, as you mentioned, complete wackos.

I definitely don't think all Republicans are "closed-minded bible thumpers", as I was a super aggressive/involved Republican for years and I certainly wasn't that way.

Thus, it confuses me that they have seemingly nominated a "closed minded bible thumper" to be their Vice Presidential candidate.

I mean, even if you LOVE the chick, don't you think McCain would have stood a better chance of winning with, say, Tom Ridge? Wouldn't you rather win with Ridge than lose with Palin, even if you love Palin and don't like Ridge?

It's the politics that confuses me, I guess.

[audtatious]

Dunno as I usually don't follow VP candidates credentials as much as I should. Honestly, most people probably do not support abortion and the only reason they have allowed it to happen is lack of a better or more viable solution. I have had that arguement with some major anti-abortion people on a christian forum and when I asked them if they were willing as a group to accept thousands of babies a year to be raised by themselves with no monetary help of the Gov they pretty much shut up and quit arguing with me about it.

[AZhitman]

Sorry, I don't ascribe to the notion that teaching and encouraging abstinence doesn't work.

It doesn't work if the parent is setting a bad example. It doesn't work if the parent is permissive in other areas. And it doesn't work if the parent's credibility is compromised.

I was an abstinent teen for several reasons.

One, my mom made sure I understood how pregnancy would derail my hopes and dreams and aspirations, and she let me know that I was loved (so i wasn't out looking for something to fill a void in my self-image).

Two, my Dad (who was more blunt) made it clear that IF I made a poor choice and someone got knocked up, I had better be able to afford to take care of the responsibility... this would have meant no more car, no more motorcycle, no more spending money...

I got the message.

And I lost a lot of GF's because I wouldn't do the deed.

In hindsight, I'm appreciative that they let me know that abstinence is an option.

p.s. You can do an awful lot of fooling around without actual intercourse and pregnancy risk.

[rn79870]

Uhhh ... yeah ... good correction. Abstinence, if practiced, does work.

The problem, as you noted, is that it is kinda tough for teens to actually be abstinent.

Z

nitpick Abstinence works. Not being abstinent doesn't. Not being abstinent isn't abstinence. /nitpick

[OriginalWheelman]

Abstinence worked fine for me. Maybe because my parents never made me feel guilty about masturbating. However, I was also smart enough to realize I did not want a kid or an STD, and the odds were against me. Teach your kids some damned self control.

[dusred]

p.s. You can do an awful lot of fooling around without actual intercourse and pregnancy risk.

^ LOL! You are 103% right on that one. I can't say that I was completely Abstinent as a teen. . . well. . . . because I'm still a teen. We'll have to see what 3 more years does for me.

[szh]

Sorry, I don't ascribe to the notion that teaching and encouraging abstinence doesn't work.

Yes, if the teens agree, then it does work! Most certainly possible.

However, my point is that hormones do get in the way sometimes.

So, I'd rather provide all the options!

Two, my Dad (who was more blunt) made it clear that IF I made a poor choice and someone got knocked up, I had better be able to afford to take care of the responsibility

Good! That should always be the case, regardless of anything.

In hindsight, I'm appreciative that they let me know that abstinence is an option.

That is exactly the point. It can, and should, be an option. With alternatives available if the choice is not made this way.

I think we are in general agreement, with just leaning in different ways ...

Z

[AZhitman]

Abstinence worked fine for me. Maybe because my parents never made me feel guilty about masturbating.

HEY HEY HEY.... Hold up, I'm not saying I was whackin' it for all those years!

I DID burn through GF's like Sherman through Georgia tho... *sigh* Those were the days...

[dusred]

Teach your kids some damned self control.

The best birth control is self control.

[HashiriyaS14]

Sorry, I don't ascribe to the notion that teaching and encouraging abstinence doesn't work.

It doesn't work if the parent is setting a bad example. It doesn't work if the parent is permissive in other areas. And it doesn't work if the parent's credibility is compromised.

I was an abstinent teen for several reasons.

One, my mom made sure I understood how pregnancy would derail my hopes and dreams and aspirations, and she let me know that I was loved (so i wasn't out looking for something to fill a void in my self-image).

Two, my Dad (who was more blunt) made it clear that IF I made a poor choice and someone got knocked up, I had better be able to afford to take care of the responsibility... this would have meant no more car, no more motorcycle, no more spending money...

I got the message.

And I lost a lot of GF's because I wouldn't do the deed.

In hindsight, I'm appreciative that they let me know that abstinence is an option.

p.s. You can do an awful lot of fooling around without actual intercourse and pregnancy risk.

For what it's worth, I was an abstinent teen as well.

You and I are examples wherein it DID work, but unfortunately, for many many many teens, it doesn't work.

Parents won't always do their jobs, which creates a problem. When you've got a problem, you need to solve it, and that's all that matters.

The solution to the problem is to teach sex education, because not all parents will do their jobs. We can't risk creating a huge societal problem just because the people that DO their jobs aren't willing to admit that sometimes, in the realm of public policy, we need to cater to the lowest common denominator because to do otherwise ultimately hurts us all.

You ARE your brother's keeper, other people's problems ARE your problems. If we've got a ton of unmarried teen mothers out there, it's going to raise your tax obligations and result in a generation of Americans who haven't been given a full chance at life.

[skylndrftr]

HEY HEY HEY.... Hold up, I'm not saying I was whackin' it for all those years!

I DID burn through GF's like Sherman through Georgia tho... *sigh* Those were the days... [/QUOTE] ...musta been easier to sneak out before electric lights huh buddy

Hash hit it dead on...you don't wanna teach sex ed? then get ready to pay for the kids of those with two parents working at mcdonalds because they had a baby at 15.

I forget who said this, but the general comment was...sexual education doesn't get teenagers horny, they can get the hormones flowing from changing a tire in shop class

[AZhitman]

Just because you have a hard time landing some action doesn't mean we all do.

I still do pretty well, even at 38.

[OriginalWheelman]

Just because you have a hard time landing some action doesn't mean we all do.

I still do pretty well, even at 38.

The best part is as you get older, it gets easier. Adult women appreciate stability and reasoning. You don't have to go around pretending you give a **** about everything to get their attention. Funny thing, I always liked older women for this reason, and I married a younger one.

[skylndrftr]

I'm at that 'look but don't touch' stage in life...

[audtatious]

I'm at that 'look but don't touch' stage in life...

You left the door open on that one and I ain't goin there

[S13_love]

There was a great episode of Showtime's Bullsh*t on how abstinence just doesn't work (and it's BS). Kids are going to have sex...the best thing to do is to teach proper condom use to avoid the spread of disease/pregnancy.

exactly... i think, we just need the kids (if thats what u want to call them) to learn how to pull their head out of their a**, also teach them to stop spreading that non-curable disease known as aids

[AZhitman]

I'm at that 'look but don't touch' stage in life...

Good for you.

I think the more chronologically mature (ok, the old guys) here will agree with me when I say as you get older, it's a lot less important.

I love women, always have. As I get older though, I appreciate their intellect, their companionship, and their differing viewpoints on matters as much as their *ahem* physical attributes.

Don't rush it. Priorities are key.